Redav wrote:It's controversial because it's using selected parts of the book that are taken out of context. That line of sight diagram relates to casting and missiles and the rules are clear that you cannot search a room while a monster is in there.
At a stretch, it might apply to searching corridors which defeats the purpose as you'll have to search again to search the bit of the corridor that you couldn't see. But people are free to house rule what they please.
My choice of words could have been better. I should say "...but it is controversial and most anybody would rather interpret the rules intuitively." Making an association between the restrictions of searching a room for treasure and applying it to the similar cases of searching for traps and secret doors makes a lot of sense for pretty much everybody--and for good reason, as the connection is simple and creates a single, easy-to-remember requirement. However, this reasoning also requires information to be taken out of context by applying the "uninhabited by monsters" treasure-search requirement to searches for traps and secret doors, which don't contain that wording.
I'm interested in the alternative interpretation from my thread because it acknowledges the difference of cases. (I'm only going to consider NA rules here.) Searching for treasure states "...you may search a room for treasure only if the room is uninhabited by monsters." Searching for traps or secret doors both state "...you can only search for traps if no monsters are visible to you." I consider the difference of wording part of a design distinction that deliberately differentiates treasure searches from trap and secret door searches.
In that light, the word "visible" becomes key, not to be substituted. It is true one must reference the line-of-sight rules for spell casting to find what is considered visible. I think that is expected, just as the same rules must be referenced in order to use a crossbow or dagger from the Armory. The main difference is the use of quotes for "see" as a pointer to the LOS rules. Visible doesn't contain quotes, though it is the result of seeing. Also, missile weapons work well with the term "target" found in the LOS rules. However, referring to a visible monster interfering with a search as the target is a bit clunky. The LOS connection to trap and secret door searches isn't 100%. Same goes for applying "uninhabited by monsters" to all searches. Interpretation is required in both cases. Why do I choose to differentiate with LOS?
I believe one reason for the two descriptions is based on the more regular, rectangular shapes of rooms vs. the more variable, interconnected lengths of corridors. The total area to be considered in a room is easily determined because all of the interior angles close in together as a single whole. What can be used as the pertinent area in a corridor is more complex because connecting corridors wrap around corners with exterior angles that have a restricted diagonal line of sight. Also, the double and single corridors share overlapping squares. I think these differences suggested a need for line of sight to more efectively handle the relatedness of corridors.
Another possible rational for two separate search wordings relates to the object of the search. By requiring a room to be uninhabited by monsters for a treasure search, the Hero or Heroes must control the entire zone--probably through killing the monsters. Treasure serves as a reward for successfully finishing the area. By allowing a trap or secret door to be found when no monsters are visible, a team of Heroes may control line of sight and locate a threat or secret route even if a monster is still within a room. This opens up actions for rear players like the Wizard to reduce hidden threats and provide new movement options when escape or some other non-combat strategy would be useful.
In corridors, there is a purpose for using line of sight to determine eligibility for finding a trap or secret door. Consider the the differences of cases below. In Illustration 1, the Barbarian
can find the trap (marked "T") from his position using
both "uninhabited by monsters" and "no monsters visible". In Illustration 2, the Barbarian
can't find the trap using "uninhabited by monsters", but he
can find it using "no monsters visible." In Illustration 3, the Barbarian
can't find the trap from anywhere in the double-square corridor using "uninhabited by monsters", but he
can find the trap from all of the squares marked with a Barbarian icon using "no monsters visible."
.. .ILLUSTRATION 1. . . . . . . . ILLUSTRATION 2. . . .r . . . .ILLUSTRATION 3_ _ .. . . . .____.____. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .____.____r . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .____._____ .. . . . . .|____|____|. r . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|____|____|_ . . . . . . . _. . . . . . .|_ 
_|_ _|_ .. . . . . .|____|____|. r . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|____|____|_ . . . . . . . _. . . . . . .|_ _|_ _| . ____.____|_ _|____|____ . . . . . . ____.____|____|____|____ . . . . . . ____.____|_ 
_|____|____"|_ 
_|_ _|____|_T_|____|. . . . . .|_ _|_ _|_ _|_T_|____|. . r . . .|____|____|_ _|_T_|____|I think Illustration 3 provides a good look at why many are opposed to "no monsters visible." If the Barbarian is to discover the trap, it stands to reason that his assumed movement during that activity will bring him closer to the monster, revealing it as a visible threat. This, and other faults previously mentioned in this thread are part of the failing of assumed movement during searches rather than LOS. Hero Quest is a simplified version of an RPG fantasy experience using a board game format. To be quick and fun, simulation sometimes suffers in favor of easy rules. That's why I'll go with a house rule after giving just the LOS-searching-with-monsters interpretation a trial run.
