• Advertisement

Make a small donation to Ye Olde Inn!

Donate via Paypal

Every cent received goes toward Ye Olde Inn's maintenance and allows us to continue providing the best resources for HeroQuest and Fantasy Gaming fans.

Borin's Armor clarification

Discuss the Rules of HeroQuest as set out by Milton Bradley Game Systems and Quest Packs.

Re: Borin's Armor clarification

Postby Daedalus » Monday May 27th, 2013 1:19am

While I have my own opinion on the subject, I appreciate the investment of thought behind what everybody has presented. Both argurments were well stated, in my opinion. Sure, passion for the game may cause the tone to become polarized, but this is understandable to any of us who care about this long-out-of-print game. Thank you to those members for pulling back a bit, so that we all might get a chance to weigh in, whether a position appears right or wrong.

It has long been said here that Morcar/Zargon is the best answer to such inconsistencies. For a long while I privately chafed at the notion, being rather pendantic in my rules quoting (allowing for rules judgement isn't stated in the Instruction Booklet). However, thanks to other forum members I've come to see HQ's flexibility--its core simplicity that adapts easily to modding--as a strength when balanced with a firm sense of what the rules provide, as well as limit.

The expanasions (and WD Quests) were all produced with new elements to grow the game. I believe what Sjeng refered to is the last rule of Hero Quest, which is found at the end of the introductory rules sections of the EQP and the BQP:

    Zargon, study this book carefully! While it is your guide to
    running these adventures, it may not answer every question
    you have during play. When in doubt, use your experience
    and imagination to make the best choice. Remember that you
    are the ultimate athority in your HERO QUEST world!
Nice parting advice. Everybody is right.
..
UNCLE ZARGON
Image
WANTS.. YOU


Rewards:
Grin's Stone Map Played a turn in five (5) Play-by-Post games. Created a Hot Topic. Slain a measly Goblin! Slaughtered an Orc! Killed a mighty Fimir! Shattered a Skeleton! Destroyed a Zombie! Unravelled a Mummy!Crushed a powerful Chaos Warrior! Smashed a massive Gargoyle! Encountered all eight (8) Game System monsters. Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
Editor-in-Chief
Daedalus
Dread Ruleslawyer

Wizard
Wizard
 
Posts: 3715
Images: 14
Joined: Monday May 9th, 2011 2:31pm
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group Member Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Advertisement

Make a small donation to Ye Olde Inn!

Donate via Paypal

Every cent received goes toward Ye Olde Inn's maintenance and allows us to continue providing the best resources for HeroQuest and Fantasy Gaming fans.

Re: Borin's Armor clarification

Postby Goblin-King » Monday May 27th, 2013 1:25am

Daedalus wrote:Everybody is right.

But mostly me.

/thread


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic. Participated in four (4) Miniature Exchanges.Participated in three (3) Miniature Exchanges. Destroyed a Zombie! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
Ye Olde Judge Dredd
Goblin-King
Really looks like David Bowie

Frozen Horror
Frozen Horror
 
Posts: 3534
Images: 85
Joined: Monday September 26th, 2011 2:54pm
Location: Sønderholm, Denmark
Forum Language: British English
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Hero:
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group Member Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: Borin's Armor clarification

Postby chaoticprime » Monday May 27th, 2013 2:28am

Every single time I have ran Return of the Witch Lord against a group of players inherited from the Game System, Orc's Bane and Borin's Armor were disintegrated by the Quest 2 tomb trap. I have always described that as actually being Borin's Tomb.


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic. Participated in a Miniature Exchange. Zealot Miniatures: Twisting Catacombs Kickstarter Backer
User avatar
chaoticprime
Practically Lives Here

Swordsman
Swordsman
 
Posts: 1939
Images: 0
Joined: Sunday February 10th, 2013 3:38am
Location: Kansas City
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: Borin's Armor clarification

Postby Sjeng » Monday May 27th, 2013 3:05am

chaoticprime wrote:Every single time I have ran Return of the Witch Lord against a group of players inherited from the Game System, Orc's Bane and Borin's Armor were disintegrated by the Quest 2 tomb trap. I have always described that as actually being Borin's Tomb.

That's a nice touch to the lore :)

Fortunately, when I was playing this, the Dwarf, who was wielding orc's bane, was in another room, so nothing happened. We don't have Borin's armor, because the current group started fresh halfway in the game system, and even had 1 new dwarf and 2 wizards since. But our DM (my wife) sometimes shuffles lost artefacts back in the game.

RPG Gateway Die Roller's 100

Uncle Zargon
Wants YOU!

HeroQuest YeOldeInn

Image Image Image Image


Rewards:
Grin's Stone Map Played a turn in a Play-by-Post game. Wrote twenty (20) articles for the Blog in three (3) sections. Created a Hot Topic. Participated in three (3) Miniature Exchanges. Zealot Miniatures: Twisting Catacombs Kickstarter Backer Slain a measly Goblin! Slaughtered an Orc! Killed a mighty Fimir! Shattered a Skeleton! Destroyed a Zombie! Unravelled a Mummy! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
Official Spokesman
Sjeng
Ye Olde Orcish Bard

Chaos Warlock
Chaos Warlock
 
Posts: 4516
Images: 92
Joined: Tuesday July 26th, 2011 9:58am
Location: The Netherlands
Forum Language: Nederlands
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Hero:
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group Member Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member Scribes Group Member

Re: Borin's Armor clarification

Postby chaoticprime » Monday May 27th, 2013 3:42am

I typically kill off almost all of the heroes a couple times in the game system. They always want to stand in the doorway and lure the enemies out one at a time to win, so I absolutely will not have monsters leave rooms. I also always have monsters utilize traps in their positioning, to bait heroes into them. I often kill at least one hero per quest. It has become common practice for the other heroes to collect dropped gear, because gold and equipment is too precious to waste.

I have never failed to completely destroy the heroes on their first effort to gain the Star of the West. The Witch Lord always corrals them into the "murder hallway" and finished them there. If any artifacts get lost when a party of heroes dies, I always place them somewhere in that same quest, unless its a quest full of undead. In that case, their stuff is usually where they left it (on zombies or skeletons of past heroes).

Because a room full of monsters is actually feared by heroes I am playing against, they usually do not search for treasure until the Quest objective has been completed, in case wandering monsters or traps diminishes their fighting capacity enough to cause a jeopardy. That's why I like Kellar's Keep so much, actually--its urgency traumatizes heroes out of searching every nook and cranny just to move on. They typically stop searching rooms that don't have anything interesting in them (furniture, etc). Borin's Armor, because I always cycle it back into the findings, almost always winds up as default gear until better stuff can be afforded by each generation of heroes.

Heroes that live too long, and have bought out the armory, basically run out of reasons to even have gold and usually just load up on daggers to throw at enemies that won't come out of rooms. For me, that is about as fun as playing Monopoly with three other players that each get to start with a hotel of their choice.


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic. Participated in a Miniature Exchange. Zealot Miniatures: Twisting Catacombs Kickstarter Backer
User avatar
chaoticprime
Practically Lives Here

Swordsman
Swordsman
 
Posts: 1939
Images: 0
Joined: Sunday February 10th, 2013 3:38am
Location: Kansas City
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: Borin's Armor clarification

Postby Ethica » Monday May 27th, 2013 4:52am

chaoticprime wrote:Heroes that live too long, and have bought out the armory, basically run out of reasons to even have gold and usually just load up on daggers to throw at enemies that won't come out of rooms. For me, that is about as fun as playing Monopoly with three other players that each get to start with a hotel of their choice.


I recognise this.

I think the base set game is designed to be 1 complete game, you can't generally do more quests than those in the original quest book without expanding on the armoury, quest treasures, harder monsters and more interesting traps, unless like you say you're killing off heroes regularly.

As for the Borin's Armour debate. I am on the side that it's clearly supposed to be plate armour without penalty. Possibly you can argue more convincingly that you shouldn't be able to combine it with an additional helmet, but that's the kind of thing lawyers do to get criminals off. I'm 99.9% sure that the people who made the game intended you to be able to achieve 6 defence dice using Borin's Armour, it's no more than finding a suit of chainmail in a cupboard otherwise.


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic.
User avatar
Ethica

Giant Wolf
Giant Wolf
 
Posts: 751
Images: 19
Joined: Wednesday January 14th, 2009 3:43pm
Location: Suffolk, UK
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Hero:
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: Borin's Armor clarification

Postby Sjeng » Monday May 27th, 2013 5:12am

chaoticprime wrote:I typically kill off almost all of the heroes a couple times in the game system. They always want to stand in the doorway and lure the enemies out one at a time to win, so I absolutely will not have monsters leave rooms. I also always have monsters utilize traps in their positioning, to bait heroes into them. I often kill at least one hero per quest. It has become common practice for the other heroes to collect dropped gear, because gold and equipment is too precious to waste.

Wow, you're harsh xD But Zargon is meant to be evil, and you're doing a good job I think :) Maybe our games are getting too easy.

chaoticprime wrote:If any artifacts get lost when a party of heroes dies, I always place them somewhere in that same quest, unless its a quest full of undead. In that case, their stuff is usually where they left it (on zombies or skeletons of past heroes).

I like that idea! Dead heroes turned undead!

RPG Gateway Die Roller's 100

Uncle Zargon
Wants YOU!

HeroQuest YeOldeInn

Image Image Image Image


Rewards:
Grin's Stone Map Played a turn in a Play-by-Post game. Wrote twenty (20) articles for the Blog in three (3) sections. Created a Hot Topic. Participated in three (3) Miniature Exchanges. Zealot Miniatures: Twisting Catacombs Kickstarter Backer Slain a measly Goblin! Slaughtered an Orc! Killed a mighty Fimir! Shattered a Skeleton! Destroyed a Zombie! Unravelled a Mummy! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
Official Spokesman
Sjeng
Ye Olde Orcish Bard

Chaos Warlock
Chaos Warlock
 
Posts: 4516
Images: 92
Joined: Tuesday July 26th, 2011 9:58am
Location: The Netherlands
Forum Language: Nederlands
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Hero:
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group Member Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member Scribes Group Member

Re: Borin's Armor clarification

Postby chaoticprime » Monday May 27th, 2013 5:18am

Ethica wrote:
chaoticprime wrote:Heroes that live too long, and have bought out the armory, basically run out of reasons to even have gold and usually just load up on daggers to throw at enemies that won't come out of rooms. For me, that is about as fun as playing Monopoly with three other players that each get to start with a hotel of their choice.


I recognise this.

I think the base set game is designed to be 1 complete game, you can't generally do more quests than those in the original quest book without expanding on the armoury, quest treasures, harder monsters and more interesting traps, unless like you say you're killing off heroes regularly.

As for the Borin's Armour debate. I am on the side that it's clearly supposed to be plate armour without penalty. Possibly you can argue more convincingly that you shouldn't be able to combine it with an additional helmet, but that's the kind of thing lawyers do to get criminals off. I'm 99.9% sure that the people who made the game intended you to be able to achieve 6 defence dice using Borin's Armour, it's no more than finding a suit of chainmail in a cupboard otherwise.


Other than that chainmail grants only one extra combat die and costs 500 gold coins. Chainmail and a helmet adds up to 625 gold coins. How difficult is it accept that those savings are significant to heroes by Quest 7? Completing Quests 1-6 yields a maximum of 1092 gold coins from rewards and treasure. There are 55 searchable areas (rooms + pit traps), with some 17 or so relegating first search attempts to non-treasure cards, meaning there are 208 chances to search for treasure. Treasure cards have a 1-in-3 chance of being gold coins, with an average payoff of 30 gold coins. This means that 1/3 of 208 searches can possibly yield another 2070 gold coins. This results in a total of 3162 gold coins probable up to the end of Quest 6, which when divided among the four heroes leaves them all with 790 gold coins. Therefore, how is Borin's Armor replacing the need to buy chainmail and a helmet not significantly beneficial?


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic. Participated in a Miniature Exchange. Zealot Miniatures: Twisting Catacombs Kickstarter Backer
User avatar
chaoticprime
Practically Lives Here

Swordsman
Swordsman
 
Posts: 1939
Images: 0
Joined: Sunday February 10th, 2013 3:38am
Location: Kansas City
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: Borin's Armor clarification

Postby Ethica » Monday May 27th, 2013 3:14pm

Like I said they could just as easily bung a suit of chainmail in the same cupboard and the gold saving would be accomplished. Boring armour has to be better than any other armour combination otherwise it's not a different item.


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic.
User avatar
Ethica

Giant Wolf
Giant Wolf
 
Posts: 751
Images: 19
Joined: Wednesday January 14th, 2009 3:43pm
Location: Suffolk, UK
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Hero:
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: Borin's Armor clarification

Postby chaoticprime » Monday May 27th, 2013 3:24pm

Ethica wrote:Like I said they could just as easily bung a suit of chainmail in the same cupboard and the gold saving would be accomplished. Boring armour has to be better than any other armour combination otherwise it's not a different item.


...


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic. Participated in a Miniature Exchange. Zealot Miniatures: Twisting Catacombs Kickstarter Backer
User avatar
chaoticprime
Practically Lives Here

Swordsman
Swordsman
 
Posts: 1939
Images: 0
Joined: Sunday February 10th, 2013 3:38am
Location: Kansas City
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

PreviousNext

Return to Official Rules

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests