Pass through rock - furniture and monsters

[wallydubbs]

Only once can I account for a time where a hero got trapped in rock forever due to Pass Through Rock:
Barack Tor Burrow of the the Witch Lord, the heroes were going down that long corridor with all the false doors. The Barbarian and the Elf were just outside the door and expecting a battle. The Dwarf was lagging and still in the double-path corridor while the Wizard was between them, but still had line of sight on the Dwarf. The heroes wanted to get the jump on whomever might be in that room and Dwarf was first up in turn order.
The Wizard cast Pass Through Rock so the Dwarf could come in through the wall...
The Dwarf had rolled just enough to reach the "room", except it wasn't a room. The door was false and it was nothing but stone.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

Only once can I account for a time where a hero got trapped in rock forever due to Pass Through Rock:
Barack Tor Burrow of the the Witch Lord, the heroes were going down that long corridor with all the false doors. The Barbarian and the Elf were just outside the door and expecting a battle. The Dwarf was lagging and still in the double-path corridor while the Wizard was between them, but still had line of sight on the Dwarf. The heroes wanted to get the jump on whomever might be in that room and Dwarf was first up in turn order.
The Wizard cast Pass Through Rock so the Dwarf could come in through the wall...
The Dwarf had rolled just enough to reach the "room", except it wasn't a room. The door was false and it was nothing but stone.

I understand that scenario and agree but the piece that confuses me from earlier posts is around the "blind" side-effect of the spell.

Passing through walls

The spell states what general rules it overrides, in this case the ability to pass through walls, which the general rules don't allow you to do, this spell does, simple.

Passing through furniture and monsters

It doesn't state whether it allows you to pass through furniture or not but then neither do the general rules (so that is open to interpretation for both the general game rules and the spell effects) - my assumption here is that the general rules are intended to prevent movement through furniture, and that this spell allows you to move through furniture (but that is my assumption but I can give reasoning if required)

I think that Veil of Mist, the use of the word "Veil" meaning to hide or cover something, is about hiding or covering your movement passed a monster who would normally block you but can't as he can't see you, so you can pass him. Nothing in that spell suggests to me that you move through the body of the monster, and nothing indicated to me that the same logic would apply to a table, as I suspect they can neither see you or move to block you with or without a Veil of Mist being present.

When it comes to furniture I think the options are either that both spells allow a hero to move through them or neither spell does.
Though I completely understand the argument if one wishes to say Pass Through Rock is an Earth spell and wood comes from trees, which grow out of the Earth. But let's not kill Veil of Mist any more then it already is.

I don't agree

If you interpret the general rules to allow characters to pass through furniture, then presumably both these spells would allow the same as there is nothing on either spell description that suggests anything else

If you interpret the general rules to NOT allow characters to pass through furniture, then you could allow either, both or neither spell to act as an exception to those rules. I don't see any reason why the functionality of one spell needs to constrain the other.

Passing through solid rock

Nothing in the general rules, as far as I am aware, states whether you can or cannot move through solid rock, which to be fair it probably doesn't need to as you can never reach solid rock (the greyed out areas) without passing through a wall, closed door or blocked square and as you cannot do any of those the situation will never arise during general play, but I think that it is fair to assume that in general play characters would NOT be allowed to move through solid rock.

However once you introduce something that allows you to move through walls (and possibly closed doors and blocked square tiles) then this situation does occur and needs a ruling one way or the other

1) One option is to go with the Japanese approach (and I use this term loosely as it has been a long time since I last looked at that ruleset) of NOT allowing the pass through rock spell to allow passage through solid rock, and to assume that the warning around moving through solid rock is there only as an explanation of why the spell cannot be used in this way)

2) Another option is to assume that the spell does allow you to move through solid rock, and whilst the spell description doesn't explicitly state that, it can be inferred from the warning

Anyway back to the original point that I was trying to make, before distracting myself.

The Reveal Rules

The "reveal rules" the cluster of rules that govern what is laid out on the board and in what circumstances are covered in the rulebook (with the usual sprinkling of ambiguity) and I don't think anything in this spell description, whether you allow passing through solid rock, furniture, closed doors or monster AND walls OR just walls, suggests that the spell makes an exception to the general rules around revealing the contents of rooms and passageway, so I assume normal rules apply.

So if a character under the influence of this spell, declares that he is passing through a wall/solid rock/blocked squares tile that will result in him entering a previously undiscovered area, then the usual rules, like when you expose a previous undiscovered area in general play, moving around corners, opening doors and so on, would apply. The EWP would "pause" your turn and layout the contents before allowing you to continue your movement/turn.

I would also presume if you choose to end your movement inside solid rock, on a blocked square tile, in a piece of furniture, then you would die.

So why would anyone under the influence of this spell suddenly go blind?

[Kurgan]

The app added an "undo" feature in the last couple of updates that lets you get around this (and you can toggle on "intangible furniture" but there is no official rule about heroes bypassing furniture). The App isn't always right of course, but it won't let you pass through furniture normally, though treasure chests don't seem to count in that area.

Zargon can allow whatever he allows of course. I would tell the heroes ahead of time whether they could or not, but probably it would result in some discussion of whether the furniture was made of stone... for a lot of stuff like this I use the "uncommon feat" (roll 50% chance for hero to do normally rule bending thing, with some plausible explanation).

[The Admiral]

I was asked this question last time we played, regarding the pass through rock spell: "What if I end up in a furniture or on a monster after I walk through a wall?"

I didn't really know the answer, so we went with that the player gets bonus steps to the nearest unoccupied square. Now, for furniture this can seem ok, they are hard-material objects after all...but passing through monsters just did not feel right. And also, if you get bonus steps for monsters and furniture, why not for stone filled rooms?

Has anyone else stumbled upon this question? How do you play it?

If a Hero attempts to pass through a wall onto a space that contains furniture or a monster I inform them that they cannot make that move. They lose no part of their move, and can continue moving.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

I was asked this question last time we played, regarding the pass through rock spell: "What if I end up in a furniture or on a monster after I walk through a wall?"

I didn't really know the answer, so we went with that the player gets bonus steps to the nearest unoccupied square. Now, for furniture this can seem ok, they are hard-material objects after all...but passing through monsters just did not feel right. And also, if you get bonus steps for monsters and furniture, why not for stone filled rooms?

Has anyone else stumbled upon this question? How do you play it?

If a Hero attempts to pass through a wall onto a space that contains furniture or a monster I inform them that they cannot make that move. They lose no part of their move, and can continue moving.

This was exactly the part that I was referring to above around the "reveal rules". Card text overrides the rulebook of course, but the card text says nothing about how or when you "reveal" the contents of a new room, so my assumption is that that remains exactly the same as in the general rules. As the hero is about to pass through the wall the EWP would need to pause him, same as if he had opened the door, and lay out the room contents before the hero continues with his turn, as described in the rulebook, so I don't see how you could "end up on a square occupied by a monster or furniture" as the room contents will have already been laid out before you choose to move onto a square occupied or otherwise.

Whether you are allowed to move through a square occupied by a monster or furniture whilst under the effects of this spell is a separate question.

[Kurgan]

I always understood the solid rock thing to just mean if you ENDED there you died, not that it was uniquely lethal somehow to enter it.

There was a debate some time ago I forget but someone was arguing that only the white walls should count as something you could magically pass through. The App inexplicably does this with the Elven Cloak of Passage, while Pass Through Rock lets you enter blocked squares and move straight through doors (but not furniture). I think that's just an error, it has no difference in the card text between Elven Cloak and Pass Through Rock that would indicate anything else. What is a "wall"?

So the App is interesting but it isn't the end-all, be-all of resolving rules ambiguities (it has some outright errors). Still, I do find it very useful when it comes to modern AH creations (like the Forsaken Tunnels of Xor Xel... that was kind of confusing until I saw it play out in the App and I thought that way was brilliant). Or how they adapted the Knight's abilities to work in corridors (despite the cards just saying rooms).

Zargon could disallow moves into furniture, or he could say "good thing that bookcase was made of stone and filled with texts on geology!"

[wallydubbs]

I'd be merciful if a hero was to pass through rock and end their turn walking through a wall into a cupboard or something and say they're inside the cupboard.

[Kurgan]

I'd be merciful if a hero was to pass through rock and end their turn walking through a wall into a cupboard or something and say they're inside the cupboard.

Perfect!

It doesn't say ending your turn inside "solid furniture" results in death. So the hero emerges, stumbling in comically disheveled way from the furniture, neverthless safe & sound...

[Bareheaded Warrior]

I'm reading various ways of handling the situation once it has arisen, but I'm still not seeing an explanation of how the situation arises?

How does a hero end up inside an item of furniture, if the room contents are revealed before you enter, and you (probably, depending on your interpretation) cannot move into a square occupied by furniture?

[Vorimir]

You can pass walls but no monsters or furniture sonyou cant enter a room if the square has a monster or furniture. Simple.