TPK, total party kill

[Daedalus]

. . .

2) Repeat the original quest, yes that gives the new group an advantage of prescience, but the disadvantage of less kit. Perhaps you could also let them find some, but most certainly not all, of the gold and equipment of their predecessors...and in some of the themed quests you would have to take this option - Quest for the Spirit Blade for example, if our first hero party fails then another will be sent cos we need that damned blade!

It happens. Get a new party and start again. There are now quite a few quest options for a new party. I actually long for those early days of fresh Heroes starting out and building themselves up. The excitement of buying a shield and longsword long forgotten.

. . . Most Artifacts are not required (Spirit Blade is probably the only exception) so it would be up to Zargon. I would take it with a difficulty thing. If the Heroes are almost certainly going to lose again (and again) with the loss of power that comes from losing the artifacts on a difficult quest being replayed, I would want them to be found again quickly. You can make up some storyline bit if you want to, like the bad guys stole the gear but hadn't found a good hiding spot for them yet (or perhaps the hiding itself is the trap, maybe there are guardians around it or its in a trapped chest, which is especially evil if they are starting without toolkits... BUT they still have the Dwarf or Rogue, don't they?).

. . .

Handling Failed Quests

If the heroes fail to achieve a quest objective, including if all the heroes die, then the game resets back to the start of that quest. Any Gold, Treasure Cards, Quest Treasures gained in the failed quest are lost, and the Quest must be started again with the original heroes and their associated items, as if the failed quest had never happened.

Some may comment on this being "unrealistic" but for me a better gameplay experience trumps realism in a game very time!

Possible extra rule: Heroes can only use the staircase to exit the dungeon once the Quest objectives have been achieved

I like Bareheaded Warrior's Handling Failed Quests rule for a no-fuss, workable way to get back to playing quickly. I also think rebuilding the strength of a party of Heroes is an opportunity not to be passed upon, so I'd prefer to play the online Quest 0, A New Beginning, upon a first-time TPK. To continue the fun, the Unfinished Quests advice at the end of the NA Instruction Booklet can be combined with seeding a balanced remainder of the defeated party's equipment and treasure into the retry Quest (minus a portion of treasure for retrying the Quest). The Heroes, barely prepared, must endeavor to recover as much of their predecessors' stuff as possible to succeed. This very well may mean retreating to the entrance for yet another retry (or two), but eventually the Quest objective can be accomplished and the new party of Heroes will be properly equipped to continue the planned Quest path.

[Arrowtech]

We usually meet with friends once every 15 or 30 days and aim to play at least 2-3 quests each time. If all heroes die, it’s not feasible, time-wise, to design a new quest, and it’s also not very interesting to replay the exact same quest just for the heroes to recover their artifacts. Taking all of this into account, what I typically do is have us move on to the next quest, giving the heroes only their initial equipment and half of the artifacts they had (if a hero has only 1 artifact he keeps it), chosen randomly. I think this is a fair solution, as there is still a penalty for their previous deaths, we save valuable time, and they’re not completely unarmed in the next quest.

[Severindrax]

There are enough characters available now that in the event of a wipe, the B team can be sent in to recover the wounded and incapacitated, but still alive, heroes.

This B team obviously will be vanilla, but give the main party a chance to try something new, and possibly even plan ahead by gearing up their rescue squad, either with their own loot or gifts from the main party.

If a player finds that they enjoy playing the rogue more than the elf for example, they can promote the B team member, and the elf gets put in the rescue squad.

Any incapacitated heroes will need time to recover, say a quest length, and are then back in action. Party continuity as discussed previously.

Just a couple of ideas.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

I also think rebuilding the strength of a party of Heroes is an opportunity not to be passed upon, so I'd prefer to play the online Quest 0, A New Beginning, upon a first-time TPK. To continue the fun, the Unfinished Quests advice at the end of the NA Instruction Booklet can be combined with seeding a balanced remainder of the defeated party's equipment and treasure into the retry Quest (minus a portion of treasure for retrying the Quest). The Heroes, barely prepared, must endeavor to recover as much of their predecessors' stuff as possible to succeed. This very well may mean retreating to the entrance for yet another retry (or two), but eventually the Quest objective can be accomplished and the new party of Heroes will be properly equipped to continue the planned Quest path.

A New Beginning may be the answer to a first-time TPK, but won't help any future TPKs.

If the players couldn't manage to complete the quest objectives the first time around, then any second attempt with "barely prepared heroes" seems likely to fail, after another retry (or two) they will eventually succeed, no doubt, but this doesn't seem like a particularly positive experience, after an initial failure, having to attempt the same quest again but at a disadvantage and so likely to fail a second time, doesn't really sound appealing, especially to a younger audience.

I think for me handling a TPK needs to be part of a new approach covering the whole context, not just TPK but failed quests in general and even individual hero deaths. I have further developed my thoughts in this space as follows...

Golden Rules: Handling Failed Quests, Hero Deaths and Total Party Kill

If a character dies then the EWP takes all his gear (quest treasure, equipment, treasure cards) and sets them to one side. At the end of the quest,

a) If the party completed the quest successfully, then I take his gear, discard any cards that he picked up during that current quest, and give that stack to the new replacement character

b) RETCON approach: If the party failed to complete the quest successfully (because they all died or because at least one character survived and exited the dungeon but without the objectives being achieved) then they all start the same quest again with the gear they started with last time, so I discard any cards that they picked up during that failed quest and restore any that they used and give them back to the respective hero.

Special scenarios

If the Quest Treasure is part of the conditions of completing a Quest successfully, like Quest for the Spirit Blade, and the hero carrying it is killed then you have two options:

a) Allow the remaining players to continue, if at least one gets out alive then the quest is completed successfully, and the Quest Treasure is either handed over to Mentor (e.g. the Star of the West) or is inherited by the replacement hero (e.g. the Spirit Blade) as per the specific Quest conditions.

b) RETCON approach: Deem the quest a failure, end it and then replay it as if it never happened

I prefer option (a) although if none of them get out alive then (b) is the only option.

Where they need an item to achieve the Quest objective like the Spirit Blade in Return to Barak Tor and the hero carrying it is killed then...

a) Leave the hero, model laying down on the square they died as a marker (or use a marker, skull marker would be appropriate) and use a first come first served rule, hero moves onto square and picks up the item or monster moves onto square and item is lost, quest failed

b) RETCON approach: Deem the quest a failure, end it and then replay it as if it never happened.

I would also suggest as EWP encouraging your party to choose a name for their party as well as their own individual character, this helps maintain continuity of the party even if the individual characters might change, either through character death or player rotation (I had one group who named themselves "The Gold Diggers" - classic name!)

[BlackJax]

I have a different approach to the TPK situation, which is to bypass it altogether. We wrestled with the way the game handled hero deaths back in the day as it seemed flawed. Losing all your equipment seems too harsh a penalty and not losing any of it and just creating a new hero with the same stats and equipment (and even giving him the same name) seemed pointless, so we experimented with the following;

1) a fixed gold vale loss, a 500gc penalty but again that seemed to harsh for newer heroes and too weak for experienced hero with bags of gold
2) a percentage loss - 20% but that meant adding up the gold value of all a heroes stuff, working out 20% and then sacrificing equipment or gold up to that value but that was too much book-keeping
3) just lose the single most expensive piece of equipment that you own - this was simpler and quicker but seemed a little unfair to the owner of the plate armour

Eventually we abandoned all those ideas and instead adopted a "Heroes Never Die" approach. Using this approach means that if a Hero dies during a Quest then the heroes have automatically failed the Quest, the Evil Wizard player wins and the Heroes have to restart the Quest from the beginning as if it never happened (similar to BHW's retcon idea). What this means in play is that the Evil Wizard Player actually has a chance of winning a quest, and the hero players have to co-operate even more closely as the death of one means they have failed the Quest. It also avoids one player getting knocked out early and having to sit around waiting and feeling left out. The other advantage is that this seems to sit better with the "narrative continuity" style of the Quest Books.

[The Admiral]

Our hero groups are now mostly very powerful so killing a hero is near impossible. When it does happen everything is gone. The other heroes have enough money and stuff to equip a brand new hero to a reasonable level immediately anyway.

[Foilfodder]

I have a different approach to the TPK situation, which is to bypass it altogether.

...

Eventually we abandoned all those ideas and instead adopted a "Heroes Never Die" approach. Using this approach means that if a Hero dies during a Quest then the heroes have automatically failed the Quest, the Evil Wizard player wins and the Heroes have to restart the Quest from the beginning as if it never happened (similar to BHW's retcon idea).

An interesting solution. Like you mentioned, "Zargon" gets a victory and the players have to repeat the quest over.

Additionally, on the second (or further) playthroughs the players will have knowledge gained during previous sessions...
Is Zargon allowed to alter the quest as written by moving monsters around or trap locations?
Do the players cry foul if Zargon targets the weakness party member to kill, thus win?

[BlackJax]

We didn't generally change the quest set up if the quest was failed, just got straight on with playing it again, the idea being, as you say, the players need the information gained from the previous attempt to help them complete it successfully on the next attempt.

The Evil Wizard player deliberately targeting the weakest hero to win the game is a perfectly valid tactic, as is the heroes working together as a team to oppose that tactic, united we stand, together we fall.

[Onan]

We have lots of TPKs. The children make up missions, and for the boss they look how many skull dice they can possibly find.

Sometimes the heroes fail a mission from a quest book while playing a campaign. We just count it as a win for the monsters and go on with the next quest. In the base game the story is quite loose and it's OK to have a new party. The expansions assume that the heroes always survive, but we don't care. Mentor just teleported a fresh group into the Eastern Passage after the other group died in the Grat Citadel

We don't use the equipment anyway, so a dead hero is no issue. The quest treasure sometimes reappears in a tomb or treasure chest in a later quest.

[TheLastChaosWarrior]

My system avoids the issue as I limit what my Heros can carry.
They can wear three pieces of armour, (helmet, mail and bracers) can carry 7 items of equipment (weapons, shield, toolkits,) on one each per hand, belt slot, two on back and one each leg. Twenty potions at once, 5 spell scrolls and two medallions/talismans. No more than 1000 gold to be carried as well.
Any excess items they can't carry are left back at base as such, and if they die, replacement Hero inherits these items.