Incorrectly Played Rules

[The Admiral]

"Automatic Move when Opening Door" - We missed the automatic move through the door when opening it rule as that is only cryptically referred to in the rulebook.

Huh? Where's that rule? I've never even seen that discussed by anyone before.

I'm from the US and wasn't aware of HeroQuest back in 1989, but I think I've heard this was a rule back in the original 1st edition? I'm pretty sure it was dropped from later editions, particularly in the US. There have since been official quests that make following this rule impossible (e.g. a monster on the square immediately behind a door).

I haven't played 1st edition EU rules since the early 90's, but don't remember having to walk through a door if you opened it. In those rules, if you did decide to walk through, you were not allowed to step back on that same move, but it was still a choice to move through or not, or have I really been wrong all these years?

[BlackJax]

"Automatic Move when Opening Door" - We missed the automatic move through the door when opening it rule as that is only cryptically referred to in the rulebook.

Huh? Where's that rule? I've never even seen that discussed by anyone before.

It isn't stated in the rulebook.

I don't have my rulebook to hand (I'll update with references later) but towards the beginning of the rules it clearly states that you only put stuff out on the board when a hero can see it (and gives the line of sight rule to determine what can be seen), it later instructs the evil wizard player to lay out all the contents of a room when a hero opens the door.

But the hero cannot see all the contents of the room if he is still on the square outside of the room, he must be in the room to see all the contents, therefore opening the door must include moving through the door into the room, otherwise the instruction to the evil wizard player contradicts the previously stated rule.

The rules also state at some point that opening a door doesn't cost you a move, meaning that the move through the door is "free" (although we play that it DOES cost you a point of movement, unless you have none remaining in which case it is free, because in all roll & move games you always get the situation where a player rechecks their movement and points used/left, so this we found this approach easier)

Not sure about First Edition but I'll check.

[The Admiral]

"Automatic Move when Opening Door" - We missed the automatic move through the door when opening it rule as that is only cryptically referred to in the rulebook.

Huh? Where's that rule? I've never even seen that discussed by anyone before.

It isn't stated in the rulebook.

I don't have my rulebook to hand (I'll update with references later) but towards the beginning of the rules it clearly states that you only put stuff out on the board when a hero can see it (and gives the line of sight rule to determine what can be seen), it later instructs the evil wizard player to lay out all the contents of a room when a hero opens the door.

But the hero cannot see all the contents of the room if he is still on the square outside of the room, he must be in the room to see all the contents, therefore opening the door must include moving through the door into the room, otherwise the instruction to the evil wizard player contradicts the previously stated rule.

The rules also state at some point that opening a door doesn't cost you a move, meaning that the move through the door is "free" (although we play that it DOES cost you a point of movement, unless you have none remaining in which case it is free, because in all roll & move games you always get the situation where a player rechecks their movement and points used/left, so this we found this approach easier)

Not sure about First Edition but I'll check.

But some things in a room are not visible even when stepping inside. Would you not place all monsters because some are hidden behind others?I can't think that was intended. It would take you down a right rabbit hole.

The rule is clear and simple, open a door and lay out the contents of that room. Just because a door can be opened for free during movement in no way implies you have to step through that door?

Obviously you can play how you want, but I really don't think having to step through is the rule. I suspect you are trying to address something that always annoyed me i.e. the fighting at the door tactic. My own house rule solution has been my own adaptation of the Evil Wizard cards. These encourage the heroes to get a move on or face consequences later as the cards build up.

[Onan]

I think BlackJax is referring to this philosophical discussion between me and Bareheaded Warrior:
https://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5012&start=140

When I look at the quest design from the EU base game, there are hints that opening doors by moving through them was the intention. There is not a single door with a monster right behind it. In Legacy of the Orc Warlord the goblin that guards the cells is 1 step away from the door, so the heroes can open it by moving through. In the south east corner there is an Orc guarding a door by standing right next to it, but in this case the heroes come from the Orc's side of the door.

And look at Race Against Time right at the beginning: When a hero opens a door by moving through it he gets a nice welcome. If he fails to kill one monster, his colleagues can't help him! Maybe that was the idea behind this otherwise pointless mission: You try 3 mean doors just to realize that all you had to do was search for secret doors The last time we played this the wizard (going first) opened the first door, didn't like what he saw, then walked to the next door to open it, and still not happy opened the third. The others shook their heads, but this gave them the idea to search for secret doors.

Also the many pit traps right behind doors might have been a way to design a trapped door: the trap is triggered when the hero opens the door by moving through it. This looks like some quests with "trapped chests" that are surrounded by traps instead of having a quest note with a furniture trap. So all the whining how unfair it is that the heroes cannot find the trap behind the door would be pointless if you use this rule.

Also the pit traps at corridor corners look like they were designed to be triggered when the hero wants to see the new corridor by stepping onto the junction. If you allow "leaning" or if you use LOS for revealing, the hero would immediately see that there is only 1 square followed by a blocked square, so there is no reason to enter the corridor and trigger the trap (see lower left corner in Legacy of the Orc Warlord).

But of course this is all speculation. The rules say:

You can open a door by moving onto the square in front of it. You do not have to open a door if you do not want to. Opening a door does not count as a move. Having opened a door, you can keep moving, if you have any spaces left to move.

Which side is in front? If you just place your figure on this side of the door, this doesn't automatically open the door, you would at least have to tell your Zargon that you open it. If you place your figure on the far side of the door, it is clear that you have passed through it and thereby opened it. But as always, the rules are obscure...

BlackJax, if you don't have the rules at hand you can always find them here in an html version:
https://heroscribe.github.io/heroscribe/rules1st.html

[The Admiral]

Well, you can only open a closed door from the side you approach it. You can't open it from the other side because it's closed. I can't see any confusion here? I walk down the corridor to a closed door. I stand in front of the door and ask Zargon to open it. I can then stay where I am, or if I have movement left I could move along the said corridor or into the room.

[Onan]

Yes, that's also how we play. But I tried the method of just placing the hero on the other side of the open door and accepting to deal with whatever is revealed. It is lots of fun. Opening doors gets more commital. And suddenly the following rules become clear:

If you are the first player to enter a new room or passageway, you should give the evil wizard player enough time to consult the Quest book and place onto the board any visible monsters and furniture.

If I stand at the door and tell Zargon to open it I haven't entered the room yet, but the rule says "the first player to enter a new room".

Note that, because you may not move through the same square twice in one move, if you move through a door, you may not pass through it again until your next turn.

This sentence doesn't matter if you can open the door while standing. But if you have to enter the room to see what's inside, it becomes important.

No pieces outside this room are placed on the board. These should only be set up when the player characters can see them by moving into a new room or passage.

Once again, moving into the room is required for revealing it.

You can open a door by moving onto the square in front of it.

It doesn't say "... and by telling Zargon that you open it". Moving in front is the trigger that opens the door. But which side is in front? If it is the side outsie the room, the door would always open if you step next to it.

But then:

Characters and monsters can only enter and leave rooms through open doors.

So it sounds like you first open the door from outside, then enter. That's how most people play it, I guess.

So that's why I say the rules are not clear at this point. Apart from the rules, opening by moving through without backtracing is a fun way to play

[BlackJax]

I'm from the US and wasn't aware of HeroQuest back in 1989, but I think I've heard this was a rule back in the original 1st edition? I'm pretty sure it was dropped from later editions, particularly in the US. There have since been official quests that make following this rule impossible (e.g. a monster on the square immediately behind a door).

A flurry of posts!

I wasn't aware that there was a 1st edition back when we were playing in 1999, we only had the one rulebook, but I have discovered the 1st edition since I discovered the Inn so I now know we had the 2nd edition and have been trying to compare the two ever since, which is tricky as there seems to be a lot of differences in wording but it isn't clear to me how much is just changes to wording and how much is actually changes in the rules, but I'm still working through it.

One change is that the 1st edition didn't allow you to move through the same square more than once in the same turn, which preventing you from stepping back out of a room or back off from a corner when you had revealed what lay beyond. This rule was dropped in the 2nd edition but I don't (yet) see any differences in the rules around opening doors between the two editions...

I don't know all the quests as I've only played the first campaign and Return of the Witch Lord but I'll check to see if there are monsters immediately behind doors in the original quests, but I don't think there are.

[BlackJax]

But some things in a room are not visible even when stepping inside. Would you not place all monsters because some are hidden behind others?I can't think that was intended. It would take you down a right rabbit hole.

The rule is clear and simple, open a door and lay out the contents of that room. Just because a door can be opened for free during movement in no way implies you have to step through that door?

Obviously you can play how you want, but I really don't think having to step through is the rule. I suspect you are trying to address something that always annoyed me i.e. the fighting at the door tactic. My own house rule solution has been my own adaptation of the Evil Wizard cards. These encourage the heroes to get a move on or face consequences later as the cards build up.

Apart from hidden stuff like traps and secret doors, everything in a room is visible once you step inside, figures do not block line of sight in terms of what you can see, only in terms of what you can shoot, so I don't think your first sentence is right.

I agree that the rule/instruction to the evil wizard player to lay out the contents of a room when the hero opens the door is clear and simple, but it contradicts the earlier rule that states you should only put on the board what the hero can see (with the explanation around line of sight). The only way that I can resolve this contradiction is by moving the hero through the door into the room as part of opening the door, that way they are in a position to see everything in the room, so the instruction to the evil wizard player to lay out the contents is now in line with the other rules.

The fighting at the door tactic appears to have been introduced by the scrapping of the 1st edition rule that prevents you from crossing the same square twice on the same turn, but you are right that tactic is a pain. I'm considering re-introducing that original rule, but with my snake eye movement rule, monsters with diagonal and missile weapons and pinning rule it might not be necessary.

[BlackJax]

Onan,

Yes that topic. I’ll take a look at the various rule references from the 1st edition as I need time to absorb all that. My earlier comment about not having the rules to hand was just because I was in the car using my phone (parked!) so I didn't have the technical ability to look up online rules and copy and paste quotes into the forum at that time!

[The Admiral]

BlackJax
Play as you wish. You may be playing correctly, and maybe not but who cares. That is what I do with HQ. Loads of how I play is not RAW.