TPK, total party kill

[Goblin-King]

I would certainly always make them replay the quest! You can't progress by failing!

What I'm looking for is just a standard way to handle it, so no supply of ready characters or quests through the underworld (Though that IS a fun idea!)
I guess modifying the quest with lesser difficulty and some equipment scattered throughout is the way to go.

Also by the way, does anyone happen to have a spare american rulebook laying around they would like to part with?

[chaoticprime]

Easy. I have a system for this. I call it "re-Questing."

The condition of the Quest left by the Heroes defines how the Evil Wizard to replaces destroyed minions.

> Replace dead orcs with skeletons and/or zombies.
> Replace goblins, or do not replace them.
> Replace chaos warriors with mummies.
> Replace dead heroes with mummies OR chaos warriors, if they need to be replaced.
> Replace undead with undead.
> Give equipment lost by the Heroes to the enemies, but only if it increases their attack/defense by no more than 1 combat die. An orc with a battle-axe, for instance, or a chaos warrior with orc's bane (less dice).
> Do not shuffle the treasure card discard back in to the treasure deck--there won't be any more goodies than when they left last time.

[Tomkat364]

I really like the idea of naked heroes winning back equipment from the enemies they encounter in the repeated quest. The equipment SHOULD be still in that quest SOMEWHERE, so it makes sense for the evil wizard to have his monsters using it. As stated above, the monsters shouldn't get the full buffs of using the equipment, make them very slightly harder, but when they die the heroes can claim their equipment.

[Goblin-King]

I probably wouldn't give the heroes back ALL their lost equipment. There needs to be a penalty. Some of it should just be lost...
They shouldn't go through the failed quest and then be back at full strength like nothing had happened.

[tasoe]

But how do you guys handle a total party wipe? All heroes die!

I have a champagne bottle stored to be opened when this first happens in my games. That's how I'll handle it.

[knightkrawler]

I let them keep artefacts, which is to say, Mentor (me, because, as we've covered univocally in a dedicated thread, Mentor and Morcar are one and the same person) gives each artefact to the Hero it suits best. Equipment GOES. AWAY. Is LOST. Makes no sense any other way. They start with starting equipment.

[Goblin-King]

But how do you guys handle a total party wipe? All heroes die!

I have a champagne bottle stored to be opened when this first happens in my games. That's how I'll handle it.

You are too soft!
Strike first, strike hard, no mercy!

@kk
Dude, you can't argue that regaining lost equipment doesn't make sense yet still give them the artifacts!? If anything, the artifacts should be lost!

[sajungzak]

I'm with kk, somewhat. In fact, I believe it is written something to the effect that artifacts should be able to be found on the next attempt. That leaves it open for you hard asses.
As far as regular equipment, I'd only give some back if the quest is particularly difficult, or if the players are children and have been finding it hard. As with artifacts, so it is with equipment; they'd have to find/earn it. Nothing is "given" per se.
The real good stuff would be harder to find, like a secret door in the starting room with an extra monster to offset some of the advantage, and you can spread it out over they next few quests.

A molotov cocktail returns home, and the loaded bong rejoices; however, Bob further extrapolates, and the inexorably evolutionary magic mushroom plans an escape from an ocean inside a midget.
Indeed, the illuminatus for the peak experience gives lectures on morality to a humble servant. For example, an ocean defined by the toilet indicates that some orgasmatron buys an expensive gift for the World Energy Grid.

[knightkrawler]

@kk
Dude, you can't argue that regaining lost equipment doesn't make sense yet still give them the artifacts!? If anything, the artifacts should be lost!

Then you let them find all artefacts needed later in the repeated quest, which I do not like because of the banality of this. Just finding them again? WTF. I've always disliked that tip in the original rulebook.
Mentor knows how important artefacts are and teleports them out. Not enough magic juice left for equipment. Voilà.

I forgot to mention that I only give them the artefacts they need. Spirit Blade. Not Borin's Armor.
This has happened once, I should also mention. It was quest 12 of the game system, so they had found the Talisman of Lore, Wizard's Cloak, Borin's Armor, Wand of Magic, Ring of Return, Orc's Bane, none of them needed. So they didn't get them back. Reminds me, I have ALL OF THOSE or at least most of them to hide somewhere during KK and RotWL, along with those hidden there anyway. That's why I would maybe do it differently the next time it happens.
If they had died in quest 14 I would have DEFINITELY given them the Spirit Blade and maybe two others to try again. It really depends on the quest.

[Jafazo]

As an experienced GM my mouth practically watered at the chance to tackle this issue. Before I do, kudos to GimmeYerGold for supporting your suggestion with evidence of an already provided, in-game solution. I smiled proudly when I saw that. Kudos to chaoticprime for that CREATIVE solution. I loved the idea of replacing slain monsters with undead monsters and even slain Heroes with undead!

Based off the games solution, we're being told to basically, do it yourself, so there's no concrete method for handling a total party wipe. It's safe to say though that if players wiped out while fully geared, they're going to be at a huge disadvantage if they go back in butt naked. I do feel that we will have to return some of the power back to Heros so the real questions becomes, "How much power do we return?" and to this I say, "As little as possible."

Players begin play with a good assortment of attack dice. The barbarian has 3, elf and dwarf have 2 and the Wizard, well... who cares about the Wizards attack dice? Weapons improve attack dice permanently, I'd rather improve their attack strengths temporarily and we can do this by being more lenient with the Potion of Strength and the Potion of Defense. Those two items could make more frequent appearances within the Treasure Cards if possible or we could let the players begin play with a few of those. I'd let he Wizard begin play with some Potions of Healing. I'd throw in a special room guarded by 4 undead Heroes (inspired by chaoticprime) that has an armory with some armor to improve their combat dice. I might also include important artifacts within that room but nothing the Heroes don't absolutely NEED.

I'd definitely require that players repeat the quest and regain some of their lost power. If the quest is just too hard, I'd produce an easier quest intended to help restore some of their power before they repeated the harder Quest that killed them.

I'd have them begin play with the following in their inventory...
Barbarian... Potion of Strength x4, Potion of Defense x4
Elf & Dwarf... Potion of Strength x2, Potion of Defense x2
Wizard... Potion of Healing x2
500 gold to be divided between Heroes and spent as they see fit. (125 each)

I'd include 2 items on the armory based on what the Heroes have with the following ideas in mind...
Try and get their Attack Dice to 3 each excluding the Wizard, with Broadswords.
Try to get their Defend Dice to 3 each

On the armory, place 500 gold worth of weapons and/or armor without exceeding your plan to get the Heroes at Attack Dice 3, Defend Dice 3. Place any extra gold you don't need into a chest someplace.
So if at the start of the Quest our Heroes invested in weapons and are carrying Broadswords x3 (Barbarian, elf and dwarf), place 2 helmets and a shield on the armory (value 400 gold, toss 100 extra gold into a chest). If they purchased 1 helmet for the barbarian, dwarf and elf, place 2 broadswords on the armory (value 500 gold) to bring their attacks to 3 each.

After this, improve the rewards of successive Quests so Heroes regain the total of their combat dice strengths and potions and gold within the next 4 Quests. I would return artifacts at a MUCH slower rate if even at all. Those can be the price for dying. I might tell the heroes this and ask them if they want to try and recover their artifacts in another custom quest, or throw in special boss monsters now and again to give Heroes a chance to earn their artifacts back that way. These monsters would be newly added to future quests and would be as difficult as approximately 4 attack, 5 defend, 8 body points, 4 mind. Furthermore, these monsters would appear at a frequency rate of about 1 per every 5 Quests. Like I said, return the artifacts SLOWLY or give them the chance to go get them more quickly.