I was wrong about cards limiting equipment in the original.?

[Kurgan]

I guess my first instinct with this is that cards limiting supply is "stupid" and I don't like it... but that may just be my bias showing based on the rules I played when I was younger.

It sounded to me like it was widely popular in modern day to dispense with this rule (not that this changes anything at my own table, except to keep in mind new players might feel like that's how it should be), and while I didn't really question it at the time, the ADK seems to be where the "official sanction" for jettisoning the rule came from. Sounds great. But I also got the sense that some people were open to the idea of letting cards limit supply. There's a certain novelty for me in trying to play that way, and seeing that it was intended in the 1st & 2nd EU editions (and the Japanese edition, which had no ADK or any official expansions of any kind) was interesting. I wouldn't mind trying to play that way. I see it as forcing a limit on the loadout combinations possible in a standard hero party (no new heroes in the old editions under EU rules, except maybe the Dwarf Trollslayer from that White Dwarf article whose weapon usage was limited; not looking at the Amiga game heroes either).

Forcing the heroes to negotiate who gets what piece of equipment is kind of cool. The NA/Brazilian rules get potentially "infinite" (gold isn't infinite, but you get what I mean) equipment, but you also have the selling back mechanic. Not being able to sell back equipment means a hero who doesn't want something may be more apt to give it away to a teammate I suppose, but the overall supply doesn't change, despite the anomalies with the extra Spear. When such anomalies occur of course, it's up to Morcar/Zargon to just resolve it, and that's an easy fix. A clever GM could just have the hero find something else besides a Spear that someone already has, rather than try to start a rules argument or conflict between the player characters (unless he wants that!).

It makes sense to me that in the original intentions (without resorting to the "update" from the Adventure Design Kit or any later editions), that if you lose a weapon for any reason (and no other hero has it), then it will become available again the next time you go shopping. I was formerly thinking, well, you could argue that maybe the "Armory" is only selling one copy of each thing (unless it's 1st edition then they have more than one shield, helmet) and that is always what they sell between quests, regardless of what people have... but if you go that route, you've already abandoned the "cards limit supply" in some fashion because you're writing down potential extra ones onto character sheets.

The regular sheets really aren't designed to have enough room for all that extra stuff. There's no real official mechanic limiting how much you can carry. The Adventure Design Kit is an attempt to move you away from the card limiting supply rule, to be more like the NA edition. The new character sheets give you plenty of room to write all that stuff down. Not that you particularly need twenty broadswords, but at the very least, you could equip three heroes identically (and the Wizard hopefully gets the magic items, or until then in the 2nd edition at least he has some better armor options for his gold). There's no selling back equipment in the EU rules, so theoretically you could end up with lots of equipment. Generally though I agree, finding equipment is rarer in the EU books. The spear is "consumable" in the sense that it can be lost, but there's no requirement it be thrown (it's better to hang onto it, at least until you get a better one!). And Rust is rare (and only occurs in WOM).

[Bareheaded Warrior]

I guess my first instinct with this is that cards limiting supply is "stupid" and I don't like it... but that may just be my bias showing based on the rules I played when I was younger.

Certainly your initial experience shapes what you find odd later, but if you consider that HeroQuest is an adventure board game (despite pesistent attempts to shift it more towards a gateway RPG lite) and in my experience many, possibly most, board games that use cards (and card games obviously) use a "card limits supply" principle, two players can't own the same property in Monopoly, and this is managed by you holding the card and only one card exists for each property, so for many players coming to HeroQuest in the early days, who may have arrived with previous board or card game experience, this mechanism was probably familiar.

I see it as forcing a limit on the loadout combinations possible in a standard hero party. Forcing the heroes to negotiate who gets what piece of equipment is kind of cool.

I'm not sure if we are agreeing or disagreeing here, it may just be terminology, but I see one of the advantages being "specialism" within the party, if there is a situation best handled by a crossbow armed or battle axe armed or plate armour wearing and so on, hero, then the hero with that equipment is best placed to handle the situation which encourages co-operation and teamwork. If every hero is a one-man band fully equipped with the full range of equipment then they each become self-sufficient and less reliant on each other.

It makes sense to me that in the original intentions (without resorting to the "update" from the Adventure Design Kit or any later editions), that if you lose a weapon for any reason (and no other hero has it), then it will become available again the next time you go shopping.

Agreed if a card is discarded for any reason then it goes back to the Equipment Deck and is available for purchase between quests (in a similar way that spells, potions and other "valuable" treasure cards get discarded and then recycled in time for the next quest)

There's no selling back equipment in the EU rules, so theoretically you could end up with lots of equipment. Generally though I agree, finding equipment is rarer in the EU books. The spear is "consumable" in the sense that it can be lost, but there's no requirement it be thrown (it's better to hang onto it, at least until you get a better one!). And Rust is rare (and only occurs in WOM).

I have been opposed to the selling back rule historically but following a recent conversation and realisation I think my position may be softening on that front...more to follow later

[Onan]

I just stumbled upon this note from EU "Quest for the Spirit Blade":

If the player is wearing a helmet, and has a helmet card, then he will only lose a Body point on the roll of a 6.

Just to add one more incident where owning the card is required.

[MonsterMotor]

I just stumbled upon this note from EU "Quest for the Spirit Blade":

If the player is wearing a helmet, and has a helmet card, then he will only lose a Body point on the roll of a 6.

Just to add one more incident where owning the card is required.

Interesting, the German quest text retranslated to English reads as follows: If the hero has a helmet card and is wearing his helmet, he will lose the point only on the roll of a 6.

[Kurgan]

I think it may be high time for me to just print out and study those books! I have greatly enjoyed doing so with 1st Edition core game, but I have little knowledge of the others (only seeing what they "don't include" compared to the NA editions I grew up with, like the alchemist shops and new artifacts).