Line of Sight

[The Admiral]

Yes, whole square. If a monster blocks a square the whole square is considered blocked. LOS traced from centre to centre. It's obvious most of the time, but we occassionaly use a ruler.

[BlackJax]

For me...

Line-of-Sight is used when determining what can be seen and therefore for heroes what is placed on the board, it is the straight line drawn between the centre of the two squares, blocked by walls, closed doors, blocked squares and I treat tall furniture, the cupboard and bookcase, as blocking line-of-sight in the same way as blocked square tiles (so the whole square is effectively surrounded by a wall).

Line-of-Fire is used when determining what can be targetted with missile attacks. You need to have line-of-sight to the target square (as above) AND if the line passes through the centre of a square occupied by a figure then it is blocked.

I agree with you about some methods being too much overhead in play, but my method treats furniture the same way as blocked square tiles and both of them the same as walls, but treats figures which are not static (so different from walls, closed doors, blocked squares, furniture) differently just using the centre of the occupied square, that way the position of the figure in the square becomes irrelevant (which I think is the spirit of the HQ rules).

[Foilfodder]

For me...
....the position of the figure in the square becomes irrelevant (which I think is the spirit of the HQ rules).

In the original rulebook, drawing a line from the center of the square of the attacker to the center of the square of the target was mentioned as a "good rule of thumb," implying it is suggestion but not a rule.

In the First Light rulebook, the wording and diagram for Line of Sight almost matches the original rulebook, but the phrase "good rule of thumb" was removed, leaving the text as a hard rule, not a suggestion.

Draw an invisible straight line in any direction,
including diagonally, between the center of the
square the spellcaster is on and the center of the
square the target is on. If the line does not cross
a wall, closed door, hero, or monster, the target
is declared visible, even if the line just touches
a corner or wall edge.

[BlackJax]

We might be talking about different versions of the rules, I was referring to the original 1989 edition (and there was an updated version of the rules published later in the same year), if you are talking about the same it would be good to know the page number as I can't find that reference.

[Foilfodder]

We might be talking about different versions of the rules, I was referring to the original 1989 edition (and there was an updated version of the rules published later in the same year), if you are talking about the same it would be good to know the page number as I can't find that reference.

HeroQuest Instruction Booklet
page 15, third paragraph
U.S. edition. Dates for copyright 1989, 1990

A Good Rule of Thumb: Draw an
invisible straight line between the center of the
square the spellcaster is on and the center of the
square the target is on. If the line does not cross
a wall, closed door, hero, or monster, the target
is declared visible, even if the line just touches
a corner or wall edge. The following diagram shows
an example of what is visible.

Digital version on Hasbro website has same section but it is a bad scan that clips most page numbers off the bottom https://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/HeroQuest.pdf

[BlackJax]

I'm just beginning to realise how many different versions of the game there are, which makes interpreting the official rules so challenging. I hope that I will eventually get my head around them all, at least those relevant to this topic and will then post a more comprehensive response across versions, but don't hold your breath!

[Gold Bearer]

I just want to check something for spell sight rules, I want my spell list rules to be worded so they cover all variations if possible. Sorry if it's been covered but there's a lot to go through in multiple threads.

What are the official rules? I'm sure I read somewhere that ranged weapons need a direct line of sight but spells can be cast on a target 'in sight' which includes anyone in the same room or corridor, but that might have been a house rule? I'm almost sure that in the 1st edition you needed direct LoS for spells unless it was one of the attacks a target anywhere spells.

I just checked and it looks like the elf spells work differently to other US spells, with individual sight rules. Also I just noticed that Skulls of Doom is worded differently suggesting it does need direct LoS but the others don't, that spell is already really weak.

[CavemanLogic]

I just want to check something for spell sight rules, I want my spell list rules to be worded so they cover all variations if possible. Sorry if it's been covered but there's a lot to go through in multiple threads.

What are the official rules? I'm sure I read somewhere that ranged weapons need a direct line of sight but spells can be cast on a target 'in sight' which includes anyone in the same room or corridor, but that might have been a house rule? I'm almost sure that in the 1st edition you needed direct LoS for spells unless it was one of the attacks a target anywhere spells.

I just checked and it looks like the elf spells work differently to other US spells, with individual sight rules. Also I just noticed that Skulls of Doom is worded differently suggesting it does need direct LoS but the others don't, that spell is already really weak.

For Spellcasting, the rulebook specifically states that you need to "see" your target, and it explicitly says that this is the "Line of Sight" type of seeing.

The official rules are on page 14 of the 2021 reprint rulebook:

Action 2: Cast a Spell
Some heroes, like the elf and the wizard, may cast spells instead of attacking. They may cast a spell at anything they can see, but only on their turn.

See (Line of Sight)
For a hero to cast a spell, the target must be visible. Heroes and monsters are only visible if an unobstructed straight line can be traced from the spellcaster to the target.

A Good Rule of Thumb: Draw an invisible straight line between the center of the square the spellcaster is on and the center of the square the target is on. If the line does not cross a wall, closed door, hero, or monster, the target is declared visible, even if the line just touches a corner or wall edge. The following diagram shows an example of what is visible.

Then the rules show the infamous LoS image.


(https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6762661/cavemanlogic)

So the rules state that you need to have direct LoS to your target to Cast a Spell on them. If the LoS line just touches a wall edge, or the corner of a square containing a wall, closed door, hero, or monster, then you have LoS. If it does any more than just touch the corner of the square, if it enters the square at all, then you do *not* have LoS.

Then, of course, the infamous LoS image contradicts the written rule by allowing the LoS line from the Elf to the middle Orc to pass through the Wizard's square.

You didn't ask about thrown and ranged weapons here, but the rulebook doesn't instruct you on their use. It just says to refer to the Equipment cards. The Equipment cards for the Dagger and Crossbow mention that you can target "any monster that you can see." The Handaxe, a newer addition (not being present in the 1990 North American Edition), says it can be thrown at "any monster in your line of sight."

So both Spells and Thrown/Ranged weapons use the narrower LoS rules (where Heroes and Monsters block LoS). The wider version of seeing (what I call Field of Vision), used for revealing new rooms and corridors, doesn't apply to spells and weapons.

You can download the 2021 rulebook directly from the Hasbro website, here:

https://www.hasbro.com/common/documents/60D52426B94D40B98A9E78EE4DD8BF94/98F182D542EF4C82A63E1A446009C31D.pdf

Cheers!

[Gold Bearer]

Cheers.

I'm not talking out the ambiguity of the rules themselves like what's in your LoS, just whether or not the sight rule for spells is something that varies at all between the different versions.

The skulls of doom spell threw me off because it specifically mentions 'line of sight' which would make sense because it's a projectile thrown from the caster, making me think there's a rule set using sight as including any target in the same room or corridor.

The elf spells as well. Deep Sleep: LoS. Hypnotic Blaze/Time Stop/Disappear/Flashback: Any hero the caster chooses. Slow/Twist Wood: Non specific so standard rules, LoS same as Deep Sleep.

[Gold Bearer]

I've just realised two things, this sight HAS the 1st edition rulebook (I didn't think it did because it doesn't have the cards) and the rule I was looking for is in 2nd edition as well, I thought 2nd had just LoS rules for spells.

Spells can be cast at monsters and characters provided they are visible to the spell-caster. Miniatures in the same room are always visible. Miniatures in passages or in different rooms are only visible if you can trace an unobstructed straight line between the two miniatures. If the line passes through a wall or closed door or another miniature then the miniature is not visible.

So it's just in the same room, not corridor. That's the trouble with making and looking at so many house rules, you end up forgetting the official rules.

I was right about skulls of doom, it overrules the standard sight rules like fire of wrath, genie and spirit of vengeance. Damn that's a weak spell, his standard attack is four dice! Not sure if the elf spells are supposed to overrule the USian spell sight rules or if it's just inconsistent wording.