Ancient Staff

[wallydubbs]

No. Whilst having mercenaries is required in the Frozen Horror if you expect to have any form of success, I feel Mage of the Mirror should be more privatized. It's not as difficult as Frozen Horror and thematically speaking, Millandreal is kidnapped so leading an army through Glenis Fen will sound alarms and endanger the girl even further. Penetration would require a small group to rescue Millandreal.

The quests would still be insanely long, but they're more manageable. And I'm not requiring the Elf to wield the Ancient Staff all the way through, he can always pull it out when facing a spellcaster, it would help protect all other heroes from affliction and damage causing spells.

[wallydubbs]

I suppose you're adding the close equivalent of 3-4 mercs in either case (the remake rules allow you TWELVE!), that is bound to help!

Actually, no. Although Frozen Horror absolutely requires mercenaries; Mage of the Mirror, although difficult, can be done without mercenaries. Lowering Ogre Body Points, giving the Wizard 4 spell sets and adding a 5th hero are all good ways to go about it. The Elven hero possessing the Ancient Staff wouldn't have to weld it as a weapon through every quest and could just pull out when up against a spell caster if he/she chooses.

As unforgiving as the Giant Wolf can be, one additional way I make the later quest easier for the heroes is to hand out the Elven Bow of Vindication early. I allow the heroes to find it in Tormuk's Guests in the weapons rack, before the assault on Glenis Fen, since the final 4 quests of this pack the heroes can't (or shouldn't) be allowed to go to the Armory.

[Daedalus]

I am preparing for playing HQ with my brother in November. we are playing with his main elf who has several artifacts which I am looking at to re-aquaint myself with. He has the Ancient Staff and it got me thinking how it works against certain Chaos/Dread spells.

1) Command, Fear, Ball of Flame and Sleep: These just affect the caster.
2) Escape, Summon Undead and Orcs: Don't effect the elf so no use against them.
3) Firestorm and Cloud of Chaos: Affect the caster and all other monsters in the same room, but Cloud of Chaos can be cast in a corridor and the card only specifies "in the same room" so is it useable in this instance?
4) Lightning Bolt: Back in the same direction affecting any monsters in the way and the caster only, but again, can it be reflected in a corridor?
5) Rust: Not really sure what happens here?

Any thoughts or other opinions as to how you play this artifact?

This is a heavy lift for any Zargon player, but I'll take a stab at it.

Ancient Staff

This magical staff enables the Elf to
reflect any monster's spell back at the
spellcaster. The spellcaster and all
other monsters in the same room
suffer the full effects of the spell,
while the Elf and his companions are
immune to the effects. The staff works
only 5 times, then it becomes useless.

1) Command, Fear, Ball of Flame and Sleep: I agree with the concept that the full effects of the spell should be subject to its original limits. [By this, I mean that given a choice between which rule to follow for play balance (who is the target and how many targets qualify), Zargon can choose the pre-balanced target limit of the spell card over the open application of targets in the artifact card. However, I don't see a need to restrict the target selection to just the (Chaos) spellcaster, as the open application of targets in the umbrella phrase "the spellcaster and all other monsters in the same room suffer the full effects" can include more than the spelllcaster. -edit] So reflecting a spell back at the spellcaster can be interpreted as turning back his intent against his side of the battle. For a spell like Command or Fear, it would be more desirable for the Elf to reflect it back upon a strong brute with a weak mind. Ball of Flame could likewise target any single monster in the room, including the spellcaster.
2) Escape, Summon Undead and Orcs: Since the staff can reflect "any monster's spell back at the spellcaster", [these spells must be affected as well -edit]. Using it against Escape should allow the Elf to choose where the spellcaster teleports. This must be a non-secret location in the Quest known to the Elf, so unless he has already cast a Pass Through Rock spell, this must be a previously revealed, open square. I'd allow either summoning spell (any spell) to work against the spellcaster, so the Elf would roll the red die and place the monsters on the gameboard. The summoned Orcs or Skeletons protect the Elf and his companions as he directs, including attacking the (Chaos) spellcaster and his allies.
3) Firestorm and Cloud of Chaos: I'd allow the staff to work in a corridor if that is where the Cloud of Chaos is cast. I believe that the "in the room" limitation of the staff was only meant to exclude other monsters not involved in the current combat with the spellcaster. The primary use against any spell doesn't indicate that it can be thwarted by the omission of "or corridor", so the Zargon player should play to the spirit of the artifact card and have it reflect Cloud of Chaos in this unlisted but rare occurrence.
4) Lightning Bolt: Like the spells in #1, I'd allow the Elf to reflect the spell in any direction away from himself, targeting any line of monsters that he chooses.
5) Rust: I'd allow the Elf to target the spellcaster or any other single monster in the room. Figures that obviously don't rely on metal like Mummies can't be affected, but since monsters' attack dice aren't necessarily tied to the specific weapon on their figures, something different is called for. I'm for reducing the targeted monster's attack dice by 1. For fun, I'd say a figure that actually holds a sword have its attack dice reduced to 1. Likewise, if some form of metal armor is apparent on the art or figure, the monster's defend dice could be reduced by 1 instead.

@ The Admiral
Do you recall how the Ancient Staff worked out for your Elf player? Was it used against any of the Chaos spells from the EQP? How I'd use the Ancient Staff:

6) Dispell and Magic Mirror: I'd allow for the Dispell to be cancel itself but the Magic Mirror couldn't be reflected back (magical "reality" shouldn't infinitely negate itself.)
7) Restore Chaos and Mind Blast: I'm for these targeting either the spellcaster or any monster in the room.
8) Werewolf's Curse: I'd keep this one focused on reflecting back on the spellcaster (Sinestra) since it intuitively works best on Hero races, not undead or Giant Wolves.
9) Reanimation and Summon Wolves: I'd treat these like the other summoning spells, so the Elf could place and take control of them.

Then there are the spells from the BQP, but they are interpreted fairly easily applying the examples above.

[wallydubbs]

I am preparing for playing HQ with my brother in November. we are playing with his main elf who has several artifacts which I am looking at to re-aquaint myself with. He has the Ancient Staff and it got me thinking how it works against certain Chaos/Dread spells.

1) Command, Fear, Ball of Flame and Sleep: These just affect the caster.
2) Escape, Summon Undead and Orcs: Don't effect the elf so no use against them.
3) Firestorm and Cloud of Chaos: Affect the caster and all other monsters in the same room, but Cloud of Chaos can be cast in a corridor and the card only specifies "in the same room" so is it useable in this instance?
4) Lightning Bolt: Back in the same direction affecting any monsters in the way and the caster only, but again, can it be reflected in a corridor?
5) Rust: Not really sure what happens here?

Any thoughts or other opinions as to how you play this artifact?

This is a heavy lift for any Zargon player, but I'll take a stab at it.

Ancient Staff

This magical staff enables the Elf to
reflect any monster's spell back at the
spellcaster. The spellcaster and all
other monsters in the same room
suffer the full effects of the spell,
while the Elf and his companions are
immune to the effects. The staff works
only 5 times, then it becomes useless.

1) Command, Fear, Ball of Flame and Sleep: I agree with the concept that the full effects of the spell should be subject to its original limits. I don't see a need to restrict the target selection to just the (Chaos) spellcaster, as other monsters in the same room also may suffer the effects. So reflecting a spell back at the spellcaster can be interpreted as turning back his intent against his side of the battle. For a spell like Command or Fear, it would be more desirable for the Elf to reflect it back upon a strong brute with a weak mind. Ball of Flame could likewise target any single monster in the room, including the spellcaster.
2) Escape, Summon Undead and Orcs: Since the staff can reflect any spell back at the spellcaster, using it against Escape should allow the Elf to choose where the spellcaster teleports. This must be a non-secret location in the Quest known to the Elf, so unless he has already cast a Pass Through Rock spell, this must be a previously revealed, open square. I'd allow either summoning spell (any spell) to work against the spellcaster, so the Elf would roll the red die and place the monsters on the gameboard. The summoned Orcs or Skeletons protect the Elf and his companions as he directs, including attacking the (Chaos) spellcaster and his allies.
3) Firestorm and Cloud of Chaos: I'd allow the staff to work in a corridor if that is where the Cloud of Chaos is cast. I believe that the "in the room" limitation of the staff was only meant to exclude other monsters not involved in the current combat with the spellcaster. The primary use against any spell doesn't indicate that it can be thwarted by the omission of "or corridor", so the Zargon player should play to the spirit of the artifact card and have it reflect Cloud of Chaos in this unlisted but rare occurrence.
4) Lightning Bolt: Like the spells in #1, I'd allow the Elf to reflect the spell in any direction away from himself, targeting any line of monsters that he chooses.
5) Rust: I'd allow the Elf to target the spellcaster or any other single monster in the room. Figures that obviously don't rely on metal like Mummies can't be affected, but since monsters' attack dice aren't necessarily tied to the specific weapon on their figures, something different is called for. I'm for reducing the targeted monster's attack dice by 1. For fun, I'd say a figure that actually holds a sword have its attack dice reduced to 1. Likewise, if some form of metal armor is apparent on the art or figure, the monster's defend dice could be reduced by 1 instead.

@ The Admiral
Do you recall how the Ancient Staff worked out for your Elf player? Was it used against any of the Chaos spells from the EQP? How I'd use the Ancient Staff:

6) Dispell and Magic Mirror: I'd allow for the Dispell to be cancel itself but the Magic Mirror couldn't be reflected back (magical "reality" shouldn't infinitely negate itself.)
7) Restore Chaos and Mind Blast: I'm for these targeting either the spellcaster or any monster in the room.
8) Werewolf's Curse: I'd keep this one focused on reflecting back on the spellcaster (Sinestra) since it intuitively works best on Hero races, not undead or Giant Wolves.
9) Reanimation and Summon Wolves: I'd treat these like the other summoning spells, so the Elf could place and take control of them.

Then there are the spells from the BQP, but they are interpreted fairly easily applying the examples above.

As written, the Ancient Staff is overpowered as this reflects damage on all monsters in the room. This is why I apply the reflecting condition only when the Elf uses the staff as a weapon. It'll require some self-limitation on his own part. As fo effects (as written):
1.) Ball of Flame, Command, Fear, Sleep & Tempest all reflect on the monsters, however the turn order of Tempest is called into question as this is cast on the monster's turn. The spellcaster already used his/her action, so should the spell therefore defer to his/her next turn? The other monsters could have moved already, or not... so the Tempest would come into effect on their next turn too, unless they haveqn't used their turn.
2.) Escape, Summon Orcs & Undead will have no effect.
3.) Firestorm and Cloud of Dread effects everyone in the room, monsters included (unless undead), so the only benefit the Elf could get from using the Ancient Staff is immunity to his/her team.
4.) I suppose Lightning Bolt could reflect back to the spellcaster. This spell, however, usually effects the other heroes, but the Ancient Staff will protect them and go back... But if this is to effect all monsters, Lightning Bolts will be going all over like Tesla's laboratory.
5.) Rust shouldn't effect all monsters. Mummies and Giant Wolves are fine. I guess this would reflect on the monster miniature, depending which weapon they have. Although the Rust spell specifies a sword or helmet, I'm willing to extend this to all metal weapons and/or armor. I would shuffle equipment cards, a weapon and armor card, if the weapon is drawn the monster is reduced to 1 attack dice, if it's the armor card they lose a defense dice.
6.) The effects of Dispell should be cancelled and Mirror Magic should bounce the spell back and forth: if the Wizard casts Ball of Flame and Sinestra casts Mirror Magic, it comes back to the Wizard, but the Elf uses the ancient staff and now every monster suffers the consequences. There's also the possibility where Sinestra casts Lightning Bolt and the Elf uses the ancient staff, she could, in turn casts Mirror Magic, sending it again, forcing the Elf to use the Ancient Staff for a 3rd time.
7.) Summon Wolves and Reanimation have no effect.
8.) Mind Blast will effect all subsequent monsters.
9.) It would be a mistake for the Elf to use this on Werewolf Curse, as all monsters would be infected with the Werewolf Curse and could potentially turn, thus boosting their attack.
10) He could still use it against the Chill spell, however I don't think it should effect all monsters, just the ones adjacent to him.
11.) Mind Freeze & Ice Storm would effect all monsters.
12.) No effect with Skate, Soothe & Wall of Ice.
13.) Dread Lights, Channel Dread & Creeping Grasp can all be deflected back at the Specters, Cultists & Weavers. Dread Lights would give the heroes an additional attack dice on all monsters. However when it comes to Channel Dread, even if the Cultist is surrounded on all sides to boost his spell, the Ancient Staff deflects it back without the added bonus.
14.) No effect with Summon Specters.
15.) The Elf could use it to deflect Unlearn, Strands of Binding, Possession & potentially Rust when against the High Mage, but nothing for Wall of Flame or Escape.
16.) Fear, Skulls of Doom was & Death Bolt can all be deflected, while there's no effect against Call Skeletons, Summon Mummy or Raise the Dead.
17.) Blinding Sleet effects everyone, so using the Ancient Staff against that will give the Elf and his team immunity. Lightning Strike would be sent back, so would Hurricane and Thieving Wind. In the case of Thieving Wind I'd shuffle a few equipment cards: weapon, shield, helmet & mail to effect his Dread Warriors. When it comes to the Earthquake spell, if the Elf uses the Ancient Staff I'd just let him put the Earthquake tile down.
18.) Against the Warcaster this might have no effect on her spells except for the Spirit of Vengeance.
19.) When up against the Artificer, Leech Life is the only spell the Ancient Staff will work on.
20.) Dominate, Mind Burst & Mind Lock can all be reversed.

[The Admiral]

Wow, thanks for the detailed responses guys. I have played so much HQ since then that I have absolutely no recollection of how we played it. It is a weird coincidence that this has appeared now as last week I was at my brother's where his Elf's party played out The Crypt of Perpetual Darkness. The Ancient staff had been crossed out on his sheet so he must have used it up in that previous quest, but I don't remember what I did. Hopefully someone else can use this discussion for any future use.