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COMMANDER OF THE GUARDIAN KNIGHTS discussion

Discuss Miscellaneous HeroQuest Merchandise not fitting into any of the above categories.

Re: COMMANDER OF THE GUARDIAN KNIGHTS discussion

Postby Edge » Wednesday November 24th, 2021 4:59pm

Fullork345 wrote:The new things don't bother me to much. I just hope they don't make the original characters weak.

I don’t think they will. The new characters don’t seem universally “stronger” to me than the original four Heroes; more “different”. And with all of them having new Spells/Skills, “more complicated”, which could be something some players just immediately dislike and choose to ignore. The new characters have to balance both mechanical function and player appeal. The original four will have a great advantage in the contest of appeal, yet for the new Heroes to work at all, they do need to be able to replace the originals.

Personally, I’m happy we have more options. Changing up the Hero roster has already led to me inventing new characters and redefining the default “main” nations of the game, the Empire and how it came to be, and will require significant story adaptation to run a campaign like The Frozen Horror without a Barbarian. Even if players prefer an entire campaign with a party exclusively made of Bard/Druid/Warlock/Knight, and Zargon maybe gives one player a free toolkit and allows Elemental Spells to be divided among the Warlock and Druid like the Elf and Wizard traditionally; I don’t see this as some kind of awful “anti-HeroQuest blasphemy”. HeroQuest has always been about every group of players running the game the way we want, and this is no different. The new things can be adapted or even completely ignored, to suit our own preferences.

As I wrote this, I decided that if I were running the Druid and Warlock as Wizard/Elf replacements, I would probably require that they mix the Elements. The Druid would have to take both healing spells (Water of Healing and Heal Body), and probably Rock Skin. The Druid would become the healer of the party, and this magic unavailable during Shapeshift. Some spells, like Courage/Swift Wind/Pass Through Rock/Veil of Mist, I’d limit the Warlock to using only on herself, not allies. I’d allow the mechanics of Genie, but make it a Demonform power rather than a genie doing something. I might even make the Elemental Spells in the Warlock’s possession only usable while in Demonform. So the Warlock only gets those “extra” spells in Demonform, while the Druid loses access to those spells when she Shapeshifts. Played with standard rules, they have no Elemental Spells at all, and those spells are baked into the core game mechanics, so I suspect the new characters are limited enough that the OG Heroes are still relevant.

I don’t see any downsides to Avalon Hill adding options, even if the dynamics do ultimately change over time. As long as they faithfully re-release reprints of all of the old NA/EU Quests first – and maybe Japan, that could be interesting – I even think they could create future Quests and monsters that require new Heroes. At that point, players who only want to play the original four Heroes could tweak them so that they could work. As long as it remains adaptable at the core, I think more options are always welcome for me. I’ll take what I like and ignore what I don’t.

This reprint is such a long time coming. I just can’t feel anything but celebratory about all of it. It’s an exciting time, and I’m in no hurry to throw a blanket on my excitement.
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Re: COMMANDER OF THE GUARDIAN KNIGHTS discussion

Postby Nlinindoll » Wednesday November 24th, 2021 5:35pm

Edge wrote:This reprint is such a long time coming. I just can’t feel anything but celebratory about all of it. It’s an exciting time, and I’m in no hurry to throw a blanket on my excitement.

THIS 100%! I’m so excited for this re-release. I’m baffled by all the nay-sayers and those who are complaining about every little minor detail that doesn’t align with their nostalgic take than HeroQuest shouldn’t at all be updated for today’s players.
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Re: COMMANDER OF THE GUARDIAN KNIGHTS discussion

Postby Kurgan » Wednesday November 24th, 2021 5:57pm

I think with a small bit of effort one can figure out why it is that nostalgic remakes get legit criticism from fans. What changed and why? Were those changes necessary, and do they impact the enjoyment of the product? How does the new content measure up to the old? You're happy now, but consider what it might take to make you unhappy with it...

There's nothing wrong with those who have made complaints, and considering Hasbro asked for feedback from the beginning, it's perfectly legitimate to air those concerns, great and small. I'm not so much loyal to brands, but consider each product on its own merits.

Considering the disappointment of many remakes and rebooted franchises over the years, something like this is a breath of fresh air in that regard compared to how it could have turned out. That's why I supported it. I'm happy to nitpick every little bit of it, because that's what we do, and you'll see and hear more of it over the next year I'm sure.

The sort of fan who will accept a new product, warts and all, will always be happy, but they also need to realize that not everyone shares their attitude, and there's nothing wrong with having those differences of opinion. So I'll defend your right to criticize the new HeroQuest, no problem.


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Re: COMMANDER OF THE GUARDIAN KNIGHTS discussion

Postby Fullork345 » Thursday November 25th, 2021 2:19am

Edge wrote:
Fullork345 wrote:The new things don't bother me to much. I just hope they don't make the original characters weak.

I don’t think they will. The new characters don’t seem universally “stronger” to me than the original four Heroes; more “different”. And with all of them having new Spells/Skills, “more complicated”, which could be something some players just immediately dislike and choose to ignore. The new characters have to balance both mechanical function and player appeal. The original four will have a great advantage in the contest of appeal, yet for the new Heroes to work at all, they do need to be able to replace the originals.

Personally, I’m happy we have more options. Changing up the Hero roster has already led to me inventing new characters and redefining the default “main” nations of the game, the Empire and how it came to be, and will require significant story adaptation to run a campaign like The Frozen Horror without a Barbarian. Even if players prefer an entire campaign with a party exclusively made of Bard/Druid/Warlock/Knight, and Zargon maybe gives one player a free toolkit and allows Elemental Spells to be divided among the Warlock and Druid like the Elf and Wizard traditionally; I don’t see this as some kind of awful “anti-HeroQuest blasphemy”. HeroQuest has always been about every group of players running the game the way we want, and this is no different. The new things can be adapted or even completely ignored, to suit our own preferences.

As I wrote this, I decided that if I were running the Druid and Warlock as Wizard/Elf replacements, I would probably require that they mix the Elements. The Druid would have to take both healing spells (Water of Healing and Heal Body), and probably Rock Skin. The Druid would become the healer of the party, and this magic unavailable during Shapeshift. Some spells, like Courage/Swift Wind/Pass Through Rock/Veil of Mist, I’d limit the Warlock to using only on herself, not allies. I’d allow the mechanics of Genie, but make it a Demonform power rather than a genie doing something. I might even make the Elemental Spells in the Warlock’s possession only usable while in Demonform. So the Warlock only gets those “extra” spells in Demonform, while the Druid loses access to those spells when she Shapeshifts. Played with standard rules, they have no Elemental Spells at all, and those spells are baked into the core game mechanics, so I suspect the new characters are limited enough that the OG Heroes are still relevant.

I don’t see any downsides to Avalon Hill adding options, even if the dynamics do ultimately change over time. As long as they faithfully re-release reprints of all of the old NA/EU Quests first – and maybe Japan, that could be interesting – I even think they could create future Quests and monsters that require new Heroes. At that point, players who only want to play the original four Heroes could tweak them so that they could work. As long as it remains adaptable at the core, I think more options are always welcome for me. I’ll take what I like and ignore what I don’t.

This reprint is such a long time coming. I just can’t feel anything but celebratory about all of it. It’s an exciting time, and I’m in no hurry to throw a blanket on my excitement.



I'm thinking more in line that new releases might overshadow the 4. For instance, looking at the knight, they come off as a little better than the barbarian and dwarf, with the exception of needing the shield to use its abilities. It's still early, but it is concerning. My only actual complaint is the warlock sharing hear with the wizard makes using them together in a campaign foolish.
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Re: COMMANDER OF THE GUARDIAN KNIGHTS discussion

Postby Kurgan » Thursday November 25th, 2021 2:36am

It sort of makes you imagine they intended each new hero to replace one of the classic four. So play with the Barbarian, Elf, Dwarf... and Warlock. Or play with the Wizard, Elf, Barbarian... and Knight.

But they don't give the instruction and let you sort it out. Most people who get the games won't have these characters, unless they decide to start selling them again. A bonus for the Mythic pledgers. And this limited run thing for the Knight makes me think something similar. They're glorified extras, as only the Bard is really built into a campaign, but only as a sub-in after somebody else dies.

I was really surprised we didn't have solo quests built for those characters in the new questbooks. I was really thinking that was going to be how they would be introduced. But no... so it's more like they are just assets for your own homebrew.... fodder for inspiration. Heck, you could use them as NPCs or mercenaries for hire in your custom adventures.

Then again given the mixed reaction to the new characters, not trying harder to integrate them into the game may have been a good thing, who knows. Would people have liked it better if they made quests where those characters were essential?


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Re: COMMANDER OF THE GUARDIAN KNIGHTS discussion

Postby Fullork345 » Thursday November 25th, 2021 2:25pm

I think that would have helped. Like if all 3 special quest books each had one of the heroes involved. I don't mind equalise where you can swap. I think that's cool. Like knight an alternate barb, warlock an alternate wizard, not sure how to classify the other two.
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Re: COMMANDER OF THE GUARDIAN KNIGHTS discussion

Postby therealshrek » Thursday November 25th, 2021 2:34pm

Both of my all time favorite games got revived pretty much at the same time. The first being Battletech, the second Hero Quest.
I was actually very happy that over all they chose not to change the base game and expansions. We simply got updated art , minis, and dungeon furnishings.
And at the same time, even happier to see the Guardian Knights expansion, and the video saying they have a LOT of plans for the future of Hero Quest.

I have played Heroquest since it came out, got my first copy at Toys R Us and have purchased it a total of 12 times since. Along with that
at least 2 of every expansion, advanced Heroquest and its expansion. It is always fun to look at the cards and minis and such, and no if they came from
my first copy of the game, or the last, based solely on how worn out they are.

I am looking forward to seeing whatelse comes out for the game, as well as introducing it to a whole new generation of family and friends.
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Re: COMMANDER OF THE GUARDIAN KNIGHTS discussion

Postby arntisdale » Friday November 26th, 2021 12:37am

Oh holy crap. I only just read all this today.
Now pretty much all the pre orders are sold out!
As far as my chip-ins. I like the 6BP 3MP mod the best.

Again.

Crap.

Want the knight.
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Re: COMMANDER OF THE GUARDIAN KNIGHTS discussion

Postby Fullork345 » Friday November 26th, 2021 11:50am

therealshrek wrote:Both of my all time favorite games got revived pretty much at the same time. The first being Battletech, the second Hero Quest.
I was actually very happy that over all they chose not to change the base game and expansions. We simply got updated art , minis, and dungeon furnishings.
And at the same time, even happier to see the Guardian Knights expansion, and the video saying they have a LOT of plans for the future of Hero Quest.

I have played Heroquest since it came out, got my first copy at Toys R Us and have purchased it a total of 12 times since. Along with that
at least 2 of every expansion, advanced Heroquest and its expansion. It is always fun to look at the cards and minis and such, and no if they came from
my first copy of the game, or the last, based solely on how worn out they are.

I am looking forward to seeing whatelse comes out for the game, as well as introducing it to a whole new generation of family and friends.


My parents got my original at toys r us too.
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Re: COMMANDER OF THE GUARDIAN KNIGHTS discussion

Postby arntisdale » Saturday November 27th, 2021 11:57am

Is this thing going to be available later?
... aside from ebay scalpers?
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