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Thoughts on the New Orc Bard Hero?

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Re: Thoughts on the New Orc Bard Hero?

Postby torilen » Wednesday October 21st, 2020 9:19am

The design is...okay. Giving spells, one of which can be renewed under conditions; giving special weapon; taking away a
starting Body/Mind point. Okay...I get the compromise. Give back the ability point and make the rapier not attacking
diagonally. There's no logical reason for that weapon to allow that. I understand the reasoning behind giving a rapier,
though - it is supposed to be a lighter and faster weapon, which fits with not wearing metal armor and being light on
the feet. (Just for though - my version of the rapier allows a player to reroll a combat die once...still a special weapon,
but not too overpowered. Fits with the idea of being a fast weapon...can adjust swing or stab more quickly than a heavier
weapon with the momentum behind it).

The spells - okay. Taking original spell ideas and giving them new names. That's fine. There is only so much you can do
with the spells (and weapons, really) without delving further into D&D style material, which will super-piss people off.
I do like the idea of regaining the one spell, and the condition behind it. As the Evil Wizard, I would certainly be specific
about whether the bard can see the character defending...and whether the bard is paying enough attention to see it,
or is too busy to notice a great defense in order to regain the spell.

My problem - an orc? Just no. Orcs are not charasmatic, as the rpg bard is typically thought to be. Orcs do not have
good singing voices or story-telling voices, as the rpg bard is typically thought to have. In most rpg settings, orc
culture is more wild, violent, and bloody than other cultures. Their songs and stories would not necessarily be
inspiring to others, would they even have a "lullaby" song or story that could act as a spell? How different would it
be to other cultures that it would not put them to sleep? Maybe against other orcs, perhaps?


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Re: Thoughts on the New Orc Bard Hero?

Postby Kurgan » Wednesday October 21st, 2020 12:48pm

Well these are MAGIC SPELLS, so after all we're not just talking about straight up catchy tunes. As a musician, he could be skilled in many genres and other languages. We don't know much about the musical culture of Olde Bretonnia, so who knows what is popular (stereotypical "medieval" music?). If this were a modern setting, perhaps he'd be into smooth jazz... or maybe he'd be into western Country. ;)
Everybody knows that Orcs really know how to ROCK!!! \oo/ :orc:

I'm not opposed to the idea of a Bard Hero in principle... he seems like a casual, comedic, addon-on character generally (better as an NPC). This particular Bard... that he's a goofy Pirate Orc reinforces the idea that he's a comedy character, but that's just the art. As far as the Spells, they're fine (the names could use some tweaking)... and actually with minor re-tooling would suit a Cleric Hero rather well.

As the TRUE Bard might say, "the best thing about the Bard is the Rapier sword".. |_P

I tweaked my version of the Rapier slightly... adding the diagonal attack (which many others have proposed long before the Remake).

The thing about a Rapier, is that it will be used primarily as a thrusting, rather than slashing weapon. The attacker can lunge far forward, and in essence it's like a long-sword. For game balance, keeping it as a one handed, diagonal attack weapon to me is just fine. In the UK version the shorts sword attacked diagonally for crying out loud, and this is not that! But each to his own. I debated back and forth until this "official" version came out and I thought it could work, and grant a bonus if you combine with a dagger (finally, a reason to keep one!).
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Re: Thoughts on the New Orc Bard Hero?

Postby nathanielz » Wednesday October 21st, 2020 2:28pm

Actually that's an interesting idea for a bard. Since they tell stories - and we know stories tend to stray from truth with storytelling - a bard hero could have this power:

ability to reroll any 1 dice when attacking (his own attack dice or the opponent's defence dice) or defending (the opponent's attack dice or his own defense dice)
"Wait a minute, that's not the way I remember it happening!

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Re: Thoughts on the New Orc Bard Hero?

Postby Goblin-King » Wednesday October 21st, 2020 4:07pm

torilen wrote:My problem - an orc? Just no. Orcs are not charasmatic, as the rpg bard is typically thought to be. Orcs do not have
good singing voices or story-telling voices, as the rpg bard is typically thought to have. In most rpg settings, orc
culture is more wild, violent, and bloody than other cultures. Their songs and stories would not necessarily be
inspiring to others, would they even have a "lullaby" song or story that could act as a spell? How different would it
be to other cultures that it would not put them to sleep? Maybe against other orcs, perhaps?

Also look at him... Just LOOK at him!
Does he convey fast and elegant movement?
Look at his freaking biceps!
He looks like a person who would wield a brawwwdsaaard!


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Re: Thoughts on the New Orc Bard Hero?

Postby Orc26 » Wednesday October 21st, 2020 4:43pm

I try to not judge people by their looks. But since the bard is an orc and we all know that orcs are not...
Ok I can't even finish that joke without feeling a bit gross. Sorry I started it... mostly. :-D
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Re: Thoughts on the New Orc Bard Hero?

Postby Kurgan » Thursday October 22nd, 2020 2:04am

Olay!
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Re: Thoughts on the New Orc Bard Hero?

Postby Severindrax » Tuesday October 27th, 2020 3:23am

Just make him a dwarf for crying out loud. 90% of the hate is aimed at the sculpt and orcyness. There is already a bard, beloved to the heroquest community at large, who would be not only a much bigger success, but also a lovely tribute to a dude who is almost certainly responsible for keeping hq in the public consciousness all these years later.

A dwarf bard is still a pretty unique combination too.
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Re: Thoughts on the New Orc Bard Hero?

Postby Goblin-King » Tuesday October 27th, 2020 4:02am

Severindrax wrote:Just make him a dwarf for crying out loud. 90% of the hate is aimed at the sculpt and orcyness. There is already a bard, beloved to the heroquest community at large, who would be not only a much bigger success, but also a lovely tribute to a dude who is almost certainly responsible for keeping hq in the public consciousness all these years later.

A dwarf bard is still a pretty unique combination too.

Honestly, this wouldn't fly with me either. I mean... it's an improvement, but that's only because the orc bard dropped the bar on the floor.
If THE bard wasn't a thing (and he barely is; he made one funny video about HQ) everybody would still think a dwarf bard was an incredible odd choice.
Anyways I'm not a fan of including "guest characters" in games. If I see another Kickstarter add Ash Williams from Evil Dead as a playable character I think I'm gonna vomit.

But I guess a dwarf bard could be tweaked into a dwarf chronicler or grudgemaster or something.
Instead of singing a lame little "inspirational song" he would be more like "OI! Remember that time the orcs ambushed us in the forest! I freakin' hate orcs! GET 'EM BOYS"!

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Re: Thoughts on the New Orc Bard Hero?

Postby BiggieD » Tuesday October 27th, 2020 5:22am

I was pleased when I read they were adding the Bard if enough money was pledged. In fact i was more than pleased, bcos if I'm doing DnD or an equivalent fantasy table top rpg I do like to play a bard at times...much to the annoyance of my friends. However it wasnt until a couple of days later when I looked back I thought, nooooo not an Orc. Why. Should be human for me. But I wont let it spoil my enjoyment of a Bard, and I will use him. Maybe if I squint enough, he'll look abit human.
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Re: Thoughts on the New Orc Bard Hero?

Postby Kurgan » Tuesday October 27th, 2020 10:38am

I think the Bards should be NPCs, who accompany Sir Robin...


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