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Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Oftkilted » Wednesday December 9th, 2020 6:58pm

j_dean80 wrote:It says “Regain” this spell. That means it is already gone. Therefore you cannot have two of the same.

When you “cast the spell” it is technically “gone” but it says:
Shapeshift
Shapeshift grants you 1 extra Attack and Defend dice.The spell is broken when the hero suffers 1 point of Body damage. Regain this spell when your Body Points return to their starting number.

We already know that “one extra dice” doesn’t stack for equipment. IE you can’t wear two helmets. Or have on two chainmail. If you cast a spell once, the hero would get the benefit, and if was cast it again they would just “overwrite” the spell. And you’re still only getting “one extra dice...”
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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Kurgan » Thursday December 10th, 2020 6:49pm

Not in every case. I think the artifacts that let you cast two of the same spell just mean within the same quest, and normally you only get 1 action per turn, period. But you could have multiple instances of the same spell, from say, spell scrolls. The Scroll artifacts work just as if you really had that spell available (it just crumbles to dust once used, so no chance to regain it even on the next quest).

Ex: as the Elf you are at 1 BP and you use Heal Body (spell) to your total up to 5. Then you use your Heal Body Spell scroll on your next turn to max out at 6 BP.

I've never had it happen when you had Courage on, and then on the next turn, somebody uses their spell scroll of Courage on you, etc. attempting to "stack" the bonus.

And while you don't wear two helmets or two coats of mail, you could theoretically have two shields (but no weapon), and theoretically still use spells as the Elf to attack (if you chose Fire, Air or Darkness). And we know you can add Helmet + Shield + Armor (Chain, Plate, Borin's) to your base defense.

I guess you have to make a judgement call about stacking. I'm fine with stacking potions, and potions with spells. But stacking spells normally doesn't come up for the reasons already mentioned. You need special potions or artifacts to enable those kinds of situations. They're so rare that I'm inclined to say they'd work double, but you could rationalize it the other way as well, as just overwriting or resetting what's already there. Multiple attacks or heals seem easy to allow though.


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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby j_dean80 » Thursday December 10th, 2020 9:03pm

So decided I may as well finish out with Hero Forge.
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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Oftkilted » Thursday December 10th, 2020 9:24pm

The key thing to keep in mind is that it is worded as “Spell X grants you one extra attack and defend dice.”

They can’t (in dragon ball style) “super-Shapeshift”. They’re not casting “Shapeshift Bear” and “Shapeshift Tiger”. (Which in my opinion might be able to stack.)

They’re casting the exact same spell. They still are only affected by the spell “Shapeshift”. As long as they’re affected by that spell they would get the one additional attack and defense dice.

As for “holding two shields” sure ... but they would be at 0 Combat dice for attack. As they have no weapons. (Unless the evil Wizard house rules that otherwise.... and two shields would be a house rule anyway.)

Based on experience in wargaming, allowing the same spell to stack gets pretty wonky. But like everything, the evil Wizard for the game gets the last call. (It would be great to do a “super chaos cast spells on players by refreshing ... :2cents: )

And the Druid looks good!
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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Kurgan » Saturday December 12th, 2020 9:37am

So two of the same "buff" spell in your world would just extend the duration but not the power. That seems fair...

You're already a bear, so you become even more BEARY! :lol:

WARNING: Casting this spell too often could result in you being trapped in Bearhood forever, meaning you will gain a permanent craving for picnic baskets and the company of pint-sized side-kicks!


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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Kurgan » Monday December 14th, 2020 5:03pm

More thoughts on the Druid Hero as written...

Thinking of progression here. So this character can't "wear metal armor." Are shields made of metal? That was a question. Or when they say "wear" are they just talking about helmets and body armor (plate, chainmail, Borin's Armor)? If we take the most literal intepretation, then that means they can only wear a cloak, which means maximum overall defense would be 3.

EXCEPT if they quaff a Potion of Defense (+2) and have Rock Skin cast on them +1. So 6 dice (for one defense) and then 5 thereafter until they take 1 BP of damage.


Attack strength starts at 1 (dagger). But there are no weapon restrictions. So she could have a Battle Axe (and if she can't use a shield, no worries there). And a crossbow as well! She could stock a longsword for good measure. So that's Attack: 4 adjacent, 3 ranged and diagonal.

Now add Courage +2 that means 6 adjacent, 5 ranged and diagonal until can no longer see a monster. Add a Potion of Strength +2 and that's 8 adjacent or 6 ranged or diagonal (for one attack anyway).

But wait, this character has spells too! So the Shapeshift spell (which you can ONLY use on yourself) gives you +1 attack and +1 defense until you suffer 1 BP of damage. So upgrade those totals:
ATTACK: 9 adjacent or 8 ranged or 8 diagonal (for one attack, then 7/6/6 thereafter until monsters no longer seen -2 or damage taken -1).
Base (4 adjacent for Battleaxe, 3 ranged for Crossbow, 3 diagonal for longsword) + Shapeshift (+1 as long as no damage taken) + Courage (+2 as long as monsters seen) + Potion of Strength (+2 for one attack).

Did I forget Heroic Brew? I guess the popular interpretation is that it gives you two attacks but the second attack wouldn't be "stacked" with the Potion of Strength (but if it was, it's even stronger!).

Did I do all that right? Seems pretty powerful overall even if she starts with a crap weapon. The dagger (or bare hands once that knife is thrown away) only becomes 2 under the influence of Shapeshift, though this could be maintained for quite awhile in a quest with effort, though it seems like a waste until she gets a better weapon.

She has two healing spells (each can only be used once per quest). One that heals 4 BP ("Lifeforce") and one that can heal 2 (if the "Search" function of the Pixie isn't used). All she has to do to regain the Shapeshift ability is heal to maximum, which can be done with a Potion of Healing, or be healed by one of these spells of hers or from another character (Wizard/Elf could use Water of Healing or Healbody, and Orc Bard could use HealingSong). She maxes out at 6 BP.

Back to defense. Shapeshift adds +1 defense. So let's see...

DEFEND = 6 overall (base 2 + 1 Shapeshift + 1 Rock Skin + 2 Potion of Defense).
Now if it turns out that Shields and/or Helmets aren't included in the "no metal armor" restriction, then that could be 7 or even 8! (but once those potions and spells wear off, it would be 4 or 5.

Still, 4/3 attack isn't too shabby, and 3 defense seems weak but I would be surprised if we didn't get a Helmet or Shield option, making it 4. That's weaker than the classic non-Wizard Heroes who can have a regular 6 (with Plate/Borin's, Shield and Helmet), though.

Yes, I'm quoting me now, what of it? :oops:
Other than Quest specific Treasure of course, we can only expect there to be one instance of Potion of Defense or Potion of Strength. If one or more of the Magic users is missing from the Quest, you may be lacking the Fire Spells (and can't rely on Courage) or Earth Spells (and can't rely on Rock Skin). But if both are present then you can use both, either because the Wizard picked at least Earth and Fire, or the Elf is there and picked the one you needed. Then again, Spell Scrolls are a thing in the NA versions of KK & ROTWL which will be part of this remake. Anybody who has those will have access to the unlocks, so those come into play. Both have their own copy of Courage (so 2 of those potentially) and KK has Rock Skin. If you aren't playing those packs and there's no opportunity to find one of them or draw a random scroll in the new packs of course, that might not be an option.

Will the new Quest books make use of these items? We'll have to wait and see.

Kellar's Keep as a random draw for a Spell Scroll in Quest 6. If they clarify the rules as to what order you're supposed to play them in and whether these "unlock" from pack to pack I suppose that could matter. But since you've got both of them, you can pool your Spell Scroll cards, which means a greater chance of getting the dupes (the 3 Fire Spells have two copies of each and there's two copies of the Earth Spell "Heal Body").
I should also mention that the Venom Antidote can be purchased at the Alchemist Shop for either Quest pack, which means potentially another 2 healing, which for the Druid is another opportunity to regain Shapeshift!


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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Orc26 » Monday December 14th, 2020 11:06pm

The bard card mentions metal armor and shield as if they are separate things, therefore it is safe to assume that the druid can use shields.

I love getting to use therefore in sentences!
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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Kurgan » Monday December 14th, 2020 11:50pm

Excellent use of logic, my Orcish friend!

Not specifically to do with the Druid, but I was just realizing... IF they really are going to classify Potion of Speed as a piece of Equipment (instead of Treasure as it was originally in the EU edition), then you could theoretically purchase a bunch of them. Meaning your characters could FLY through the quests (though triggering lots of traps if you're not careful to search beforehand). Of course we have no idea how much it might cost... Now don't get me wrong, I don't mind the idea of buying potions, but to me "Equipment" should stick to weapons, armor, and the toolkit. I guess they didn't want to introduce a new deck called "Armory" or "Potions" or "Alchemist Shop" or something of that sort. When it comes to buying stuff, I'd rather have both... a "menu" and the card if I want to have it sitting by my spot (though there's nothing wrong with just noting it on your character sheet, and more efficient, if you use pencil anyway!).

The cards are useful for doing a random draw, or just to show the person at the time of purchase/discovery for reference and coolness sake.

PS: How funny would it be if they made "Nothing" from the EU Treasure into an Equipment card? They would need to put a label on it "Cost: FREE"

Imagine going to the Armory between quests and buying a whole lot of NOTHING with your gold! *shrugs*


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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Kurgan » Wednesday December 16th, 2020 11:09pm

And you could buy multiples of the Venom Antidote for more healing opportunities, but then poison damage are pretty rare by default, so one couldn't rely on it to heal and recharge Shapeshift...


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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby cynthialee » Friday December 18th, 2020 4:31pm

Kurgan wrote:And you could buy multiples of the Venom Antidote for more healing opportunities, but then poison damage are pretty rare by default, so one couldn't rely on it to heal and recharge Shapeshift...

as the EWP if I see my players stockpiling on anti venom, then you can be sure I will be increasing the amount of poison chances in the dungeon
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If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


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