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Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Discuss Miscellaneous HeroQuest Merchandise not fitting into any of the above categories.

Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Kurgan » Friday October 30th, 2020 3:19am

wallydubbs wrote:
Cael Darkhollow wrote:the reason why all three new heroes Hasbro introduced fail is because they are designed as individual characters rather than a new generic playable class. They should be NPCs in a storyline not new hero selections.The druid at least could be reasonably modified from the existing game materials so anyone could play a generic druid, but the orc bard and halfling demon possessed female warlock are hopeless, far too random and rare of combinations to plausibly play another if that particular one dies.If players must modify the game from the way it was released to make it usable at all as a generic class that is poor game design.

They should have been thinking along the lines of D&D playable classes or Gauntlet II arcade game: "I'm going as the Barbarian!" (red barbarian enters the game) "Me too!" (blue barbarian enters) Players should be able to select any of the generic character classes (Wizard, Elf, Dwarf, or Barbarian) to generate their adventuring party, and they could have easily added more playable classes or races such as gnome, halfling, thief, cleric or even bard to choose from, but they didn't. Instead they gave us bizzarre individual personalities that don't fit well into HeroQuest and certainly aren't new playable generic class types.


I absolutely agree. You could add a Vampire to the group, but not Dracula.

The original characters are generic to the point where you can add personality and preferences to them. The Elf might be good with a sword, but the player may prefer a crossbow, so the Elf is better at archery.
The Barbarian may prefer a Broadsword and a shield instead of a Battle Axe. So maybe he finds a sword more fluid with his movement (although the actual reason is the defense dice), you can write it into his story.

A Knight or an Orc or even an Alchemist would be doable.
But the Halfling Warlock and an Orc Bard are way too specific to the point that their backstories are already half written. They're DnD characters written by someone else so it's very difficult for someone to even want to project a persona onto them.
A Human or Elven Druid has an understandable flow to it, but I'd have to reject it if someone was trying to put forth a Dwarven Druid.



That's a very good point about NPCs. Up until now I had been viewing these exclusively as Heroes, like you'd pick your set of four for the normal quests, but somebody picks the Orc Bard or the Druid instead of the Barbarian. At least with the "pulse bonus" they're giving us two of each type of Hero, so in theory you could use two Elves, two Wizards, etc. (though you're going to run out of spell cards potentially). Even though they're not remaking the EQP/BQP those specifically stated that you only got one Elf or Barbarian per Quest. Then again, we're fan modders, so we do what we want if it makes the game better for us!

As NPCs.... these could actually be brilliant. Most of the time the NPCs you find are wounded or really weak (like Sir Ragnar) and really not supposed to fight. Or they're basically just an object that you pick up (like the kidnapped maids in the EQP). Having someone you rescue (or meet up with, or "convert" to your cause) and then they have unique abilities for a Quest or two.. that's a really cool notion. I like that better than having them replace one of the core classes of character. I've played quests where you find a Mercenary and get him on your side. I've got the Lone Monster ("Parley") deck made from ideas fans created on these forums, and that has the idea of getting a Monster to join you (at least for that quest). These would be like finding a really cool character that you could control in addition to your main Hero... a special bonus. If you can manage three men at arms running around, surely you can manage one Druid, Warlock or Bard. This could literally be a game-changer for this Remake! I'm assuming they're not going to give us solo quests for these new Heroes and they're probably not (better not) make it so that you can only win if that particular Hero is with you (it's a Druid door only Druids can open!). Though it could be a story point (maybe the Bard tries to get his old Orc buddies to turn from the path of evil like he has, rather than attacking the group in the halls).

It's true that other than the name (and your doodled "coat of arms" on your character sheet), you only get to customize your character in terms of what weapons/armor you find/buy to equip them with, or in the case of the Elf/Wizard, what spell groups you choose. We never wrote backstories for our Heroes, but we did design little tombstones for them if they got perished for good... (like The Oregon Trail)



What about giving the Druid a new set of spells?

I tried to contact Ethica but haven't been able to get in touch with them. Anyway, these were created by Ethica (I take no credit!), just cleaned them up a bit and gave them a forest greenish tint. "Pick any three."
( Originals here )
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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Orc26 » Friday December 4th, 2020 12:44am

So I have a question about shape shift.
Lets say the druid has 2 HP and she casts it.
The wizard then immediately casts water of healing on her.
Does she get the shape shift spell back or not?

The way we have always played cards is that they are gone the second you cast the spell regardless of how long they last. (I don't know of any ways to actually get spells back in the core game though...) Getting the spell back for the druid is kind of wonky because if the card is discarded right when cast like all the other spells, then she could get it back before the shapeshifting has even ended and is that how they wanted it to work? Also would she lose the card if she cast it while at full health? The wording makes it sound like yes, but man that feels weird too.

I'm thinking that they wanted it to be something along these lines;
- You roll 1 extra attack and defense dice
- When you take 1 damage this spell ends
- After this spell ends you can get the card back if you are ever at full health
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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Orc26 » Friday December 4th, 2020 12:49am

Dreaded double post...
As I was reading up on the forest spells posted right above my rambling about what exactly playtest wording means, I had the suspicion that they didn't give the druid a pile of spells to pick from because then she would just be an Elf Quest Pack elf, and we need something NEW AND IMPROVED.

Either that or they are literally too stupid to realize that making an Elf Quest Pack elf as an alternate character would be awesome.
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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Goblin-King » Friday December 4th, 2020 3:34am

Orc26 wrote:So I have a question about shape shift.
Lets say the druid has 2 HP and she casts it.
The wizard then immediately casts water of healing on her.
Does she get the shape shift spell back or not?

The way we have always played cards is that they are gone the second you cast the spell regardless of how long they last. (I don't know of any ways to actually get spells back in the core game though...) Getting the spell back for the druid is kind of wonky because if the card is discarded right when cast like all the other spells, then she could get it back before the shapeshifting has even ended and is that how they wanted it to work? Also would she lose the card if she cast it while at full health? The wording makes it sound like yes, but man that feels weird too.

I'm thinking that they wanted it to be something along these lines;
- You roll 1 extra attack and defense dice
- When you take 1 damage this spell ends
- After this spell ends you can get the card back if you are ever at full health


I'd say no. As long as the spell is still in effect the card is in play.
You first technically lose it when the spell ends. Healing the druid up while still shapeshifted is redundant - unless she actually needs the health to survive.
My reasoning is that if she could get Shape Shift back while still shapeshifted, she could technically cast it again and then become too strong.


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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Davane » Friday December 4th, 2020 10:41am

In first look, I can't see anything wrong with the Druid, other than the over-abundance of healing spells.

Only starting with 1 Attack Die (like a Wizard), going up to 2 Attack Dice (Like the Elf) with Shapeshifter doesn't sound like a good deal. I know Shapeshift can be reused, but it seems weak to have to use it just to be the same as a basic hero. The requirement to restore your BP to full to be able to get it back just seems kind of harsh.

I would argue that Shapeshift needs to provide +2 Attack Dice and +2 Defence Dice at least, making it a combined Courage and Rock Skin that can only be used by the Druid.

With this in mind, I'd consider giving the Druid 2 Attack Dice, but prevent her from using Weapons or Armour, pretty much forcing her to use Shapeshift to fight. 4 Attack Dice and 4 Defence Dice is pretty good for a starting hero, the the Druid will never get more than this without other effects.

Given the Druid's reliance on Shapeshift to fight, I would make it far easier to reuse - probably allowing it to be regained whenever the Druid gains BP. That way, the Druid isn't required to remain at full health to be able to use Shapeshift.

Lifeforce is your basic Healing spell, but I have to wonder if it's worth giving the Pixie extra healing capability? Rather, why not have the Pixie act like a Treasure Without Doom effect? It also fits with the Pixie's searching theme, and it's possible that the Pixie will find a Healing Potion.
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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Daedalus » Tuesday December 8th, 2020 5:04pm

Orc26 wrote:So I have a question about shape shift.
Lets say the druid has 2 HP and she casts it.
The wizard then immediately casts water of healing on her.
Does she get the shape shift spell back or not?

The way we have always played cards is that they are gone the second you cast the spell regardless of how long they last. (I don't know of any ways to actually get spells back in the core game though...) Getting the spell back for the druid is kind of wonky because if the card is discarded right when cast like all the other spells, then she could get it back before the shapeshifting has even ended and is that how they wanted it to work? Also would she lose the card if she cast it while at full health? The wording makes it sound like yes, but man that feels weird too.

I'm thinking that they wanted it to be something along these lines;
- You roll 1 extra attack and defense dice
- When you take 1 damage this spell ends
- After this spell ends you can get the card back if you are ever at full health

Interesting observation. After checking the NA rules for casting spells, I'd say the Druid would regain the Shapeshift spell upon being immediately healed by the Wizard.

NA Instruction Book wrote:. . . While you may use your turn to engage in combat or to cast a spell, you may instead choose to perform another action. -p.11

As the Elf or the Wizard, you may cast a spell instead of attacking. . . .
Once a spell is cast, the spell card is discarded for the remainder of the Quest. -p.15

Those references are tied to a turn, a discreet event. That makes sense to me, since cast means to throw, as in "The die has been cast."

As pointed out earlier, the Druid then could cast the spell again for +2 defense and +2 attack. Compare this to a Wizard casting Rock Skin (+1 defense) and Courage (+2 attack while monsters are visible.) Two Shapeshift spells are more powerful, to be sure.

Is that how they wanted it to work? Apparently so, but that is what playtesting is for. I'd hope the Avalon Hill playtesters are capable of applying the wording correctly and the spell is amended if needed.

I personally don't see any problem with losing the Shape-shifting spell when cast at full Body Points since that's just basic spell mechanics. To help explain away the weirdness, I'd suggest viewing the process of restoring Body Points as a kind of body transformation that the Druid can harness to jump-start the Shapeshift spell again.
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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Oftkilted » Tuesday December 8th, 2020 5:24pm

• Shapeshift
Shapeshift grants you 1 extra Attack and Defend dice. The spell is broken when the hero suffers 1 point of Body damage. Regain this spell when your Body Points return to their starting number.

Where is the “Starting Number” calculated from? Is it calculated from “start of the game,” “start of the turn”? Is it the “starting number of body points from when you cast the spell?”

If they gained back the spell on reaching their “maximum body points” then being healed after having cast the spell would potentially “recycle the spell before ending the spell.”

If the starting point for determining it is determined when the cast occurs then they would have to loose it, and then regain at least the missing body point.
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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Daedalus » Wednesday December 9th, 2020 3:28pm

Oftkilted wrote:. . . Where is the “Starting Number” calculated from? Is it calculated from “start of the game,” “start of the turn”? Is it the “starting number of body points from when you cast the spell?”

I'd say "starting number" references the Druid's Character Card.
NA Instruction Booklet wrote:. . . The number of dice and starting points are charted on each card. -p.7, under 3. Character Cards
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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby Oftkilted » Wednesday December 9th, 2020 5:43pm

Is there any location that discusses whether the same spell “stacks”? Because if it doesn’t stack then being able to immediately “recast it” might not be an issue?
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Re: Thoughts on the New Druid Hero?

Postby j_dean80 » Wednesday December 9th, 2020 6:39pm

It says “Regain” this spell. That means it is already gone. Therefore you cannot have two of the same.
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