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Thoughts on the New Warlock Hero?

Discuss Miscellaneous HeroQuest Merchandise not fitting into any of the above categories.

Re: Thoughts on the New Warlock Hero?

Postby Kurgan » Thursday October 29th, 2020 12:58am

While of course I'd want my Paladin (crusher of undead), Mystic (battle mage), Ranger (its in the name), and Cleric (healer), how about some other ideas?

I want to see the Mimic Hero... he can eat pieces of furniture to restore his health (trapped treasure chests give him indigestion, but he can spit out the gold). Can't really wear armor, but he has some natural defense, being made of faux wood and quasi-metal and demi-stone.

The Living Trap Hero. He can make Monsters fall into him, or drop on their head, or chuck himself at them like a spear. Fellow Heroes who pass through him suffer the same effects, so watch out!

The Gambler. Whenever he finds gold he can double his fortune, but beware, sometimes his luck can run out! Gamble with a monster and if you play your cards right, you can take his gear!

The Janitor. Nobody notices him, as he slips through dungeons. He doesn't fall for traps. Spells include "caution: wet floor" and he can sprinkle that stuff on the blood to prevent alerting nearby monsters after a kill.

Blacksmith. He's strong but he's also a craftsman. He can find metal from various sources (treasure, furniture, discarded gear from dead monsters) and fashion it into weapons and armor. He can improve existing gear or turn rusty and broken weapons into useful pieces.

Spelunker. Has the best knowledge of dungeons and can map things out without alerting the enemy. Able to hide from bad guys while locating the most likely path to the goal.

Split. Randomly changes from mild mannered Sir Jekyll (who is fast but weak) to high-statted Lord Hyde. Found potions allow him to control his volatile mutation.

Soul sucker. Has to kill to stay alive. Can go over max body/mind, but can also transfer some of his life force to others. Watch out, if no monsters are around, he may be coming for you, his former friend!

Scavenger. Doesn't search for treasure, but gets whatever he needs from killing monsters or dismantling furniture.

Sapper. Starts with explosives to blow through walls (leaving breaches behind that his friends can walk through... roll 1 white die, if it's a black shield there is a cave in... equivalent to a falling block trap). If he runs out, he can create more explosives from potions (replenished between quests). Can also use bombs to blow up monsters or open pits in the floor.

Charmer. He can challenge a monster to a one on one fight. If he wins, the monster becomes an ally and fights by his side. As with mercenaries, they have to be paid (either in spoiled meat or gold, or they'll desert you) Skilled with sword and buckler.

Merchant. Gets discounts on most gear at the shops. Able to parley to buy goods in dungeons as well. Wears an expensive cloak that provides extra protection.

Alchemist Wizard: collects materials to generate new spells/scrolls and artifacts. Can sometimes regenerate the used spells of others or steal spells from bad guys.

Beastmaster. Weak fighter, but summons animals to do the fighting for him (or has a familiar type animal) and a distraction when he needs to escape.

Shapeshifter. A stealthy assassin... he gains the abilities of the ones he kills.

Midas cursed. This warrior needs gold, literally, to stay alive! If he runs out of treasure and coin, he turns into a wraith and becomes a danger not only to the enemy, but also to his friends!
Partner him with the Merchant.

Gemini. This Hero is split into two figures. The two must split up, if they stay together they start to weaken. One figure is able to fight and cannot be harmed, while the other can be harmed and cannot fight. Every few turns, the roles switch. A token designates the fighter from the soft target.

Prospector. Along with his faithful (but at times stubborn) mule, this prospector is good at finding treasure and can occasionally dig through walls. He's also less susceptible to Pit and falling block traps. His pickax serves as a decent melee weapon and he also gets a torch each Quest.

Highlander. Every time he kills a enemy, he takes his head... and with it, his power. This increases his fighting prowess, but also increases his quickening meter. if it gets too high, it must be dispersed in one of several ways (equivalent to a spell). If not, then the power erupts in a devastating effect like a firestorm or earthquake that can harm his allies, and damages his mind points. With each turn he can recover from basic (1 BP) wounds. If he is killed, his body remains on the board, and will revive after a random number of turns. Meanwhile his "corpse" has no defense, and can be beheaded by an enemy, and this is the only way he can truly die. The one who kills him in this way gets a boost in power.

Wrestler. He can throw furniture around to damage the enemy. He can put monsters into bearhugs to prevent them from moving, do damage, and even crush the life out of them (test of strength, roll red dice against each other to determine advantage). Eschews normal weapons for bare-handed (or single use makeshift weapons) fighting and grappling. Slow, but tough.

Martial Artist. Uses the enemy's force against them. Can disarm and incapacitate the enemy or slip out of their grasp. Able to parry some attacks or projectiles. Ninja could be a variation on this.


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Re: Thoughts on the New Warlock Hero?

Postby wallydubbs » Thursday October 29th, 2020 8:40am

Since we're only allowed 4 per quest, I'll take the Spelunker, Soul Sucker, Gemini and Highlander.

Still not picking the Warlock.
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Re: Thoughts on the New Warlock Hero?

Postby Kurgan » Thursday October 29th, 2020 9:02am

wallydubbs wrote:Since we're only allowed 4 per quest, I'll take the Spelunker, Soul Sucker, Gemini and Highlander.

Still not picking the Warlock.


I want to play at your gaming table! |_P


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Re: Thoughts on the New Warlock Hero?

Postby Cael Darkhollow » Thursday October 29th, 2020 11:52am

wallydubbs wrote:Still not picking the Warlock.

Even if you could look past the bizarre combination of attributes that is a poor fit for HeroQuest she is a unique character not a new player class.
that is the entire problem with the Warlock, even if someone did play her, the minute she dies you can't just replace her with any one of the fifty other demon possessed female adventuring halflings at any local tavern ( must be very common in these parts). They created a unique individual NPC (that does not fit the style or vibe of HeroQuest) not a new type of character that anyone can play and make their own.
By Crom I'll split you crown to crotch to see if your guts are yellow as I think they are nithing BARBARIAN Ulrich
The last music you shall ever hear will be my bowstring as your forehead sprouts a feathered shaft, pity ELF Cael Darkhollow
Tomes grimoires manuals atlas formularies compendiums codexes bestiaries folios scrolls... Am I missing anything before we leave? WIZARD Eldritch Heironymous KigamMagister
Some quick axe work an' we can count the coins and gems DWARF Wulfram Magnussen
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Re: Thoughts on the New Warlock Hero?

Postby Kurgan » Friday October 30th, 2020 3:29am

You are on to something there... I think these New Heroes work much better as special NPCs who join your quest, rather than a Hero who replaces one of the four.

Also maybe in a solo quest built specifically for them? But I love the idea of them being NPCs who join you... so they are controlled by another player, just like a mercenary or rescued character.

Prior to this my solution would have been to turn the Bard into a Cleric, the Warlock into a Ranger, and the Druid I would give Ethica's "Forest Spells" (pick 3) instead of what she has.


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Warlock... as Ranger instead ?

Postby Kurgan » Thursday November 12th, 2020 8:14pm

Your oath has been fulfilled!

Ranger

You are the Ranger, a skilled hunter who has bonded with dark Elves, being gifted with their secret skills of woodcraft. Let your allies protect you while you deal damage from afar. Counts as Wizard hero for the purposes of which weapons, artifacts, and equipment they can use.



Ranger's Unique Weapon:

Sylvan Bow


This bow gives you the attack strength of 2 combat dice against any monster you can "see." A Ranger may purchase a bow for 125 gold coins. Wielded by any other Hero, it only attacks with 1 combat die, since they lack the special skill.



The Ranger's three spells:

Hunter Mode


The Ranger ignores pit traps and may roll 1 extra combat die each time they attack, until the spell is broken. The spell is broken when the Hero suffers 1 point of Body damage.

Regain this spell when you reduce a monster's Body points to zero.

Intimidate

This spell causes any one monster to become so fearful that their attacks are reduced to one combat die. The spell can be broken on a future turn by rolling one red die for each of their Mind Points. If a 6 is rolled, the spell is broken.

Camouflage

Cast this spell on an enemy’s turn after you have suffered damage. Reduce that damage to 0 and move instantly to any unoccupied square you can "see."


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Last edited by Kurgan on Friday December 4th, 2020 6:27pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Thoughts on the New Warlock Hero?

Postby Davane » Friday December 4th, 2020 11:04am

The warlock is an anti-hero, and not quite a fit for HQ in my opinion.

That aside, the Warlock is all about the wand, and having a 2 Dice ranged attack off the bat seems a bit strong, especially when the Wizard only has spells to attack, so gets maybe three ranged attacks during the game, if they are lucky?

I'd reduce the wand to a 1 Die Ranged Attack. Of course, the way I play, the Wizard starts with a dagger, which gives him a 1 Die ranged attack if he's desperate. Unlimited ranged attacks for free, even 1 Die ranged attacks, is still extremely strong.

Demonform seems okay - but it seems a bit strong for a reusable ability - it's essentially a 3 Die Ranged Attack from the start (or 2 Die Ranged attack if you change the wand as above) that basically lasts until you get hit. I'd consider making it a +1 Attack Die +1 Defence Die ability that the Warlock can call on once (normally during a Boss fight). I'd even consider making it a +2 Attack Dice, +2 Defence Dice ability, since the Warlock is a Wizard, and therefore severely limited in weapons and armour anyway. This makes it the same as a revised Shapeshift (+2 Attack Dice, +2 Defence Dice) for the Druid, but it isn't reusable.

Fear is an interesting ability - I think it's based on a Chaos spell that does the same thing.

Dark Wings is interesting, and I think that this should be the Warlock's reusable ability. I would limit it to the closest unoccupied space you can see, so it works more like a dodge than a teleport. If the Warlock is so self-serving, then surely the Warlock would be more interested in having an ability that allows them to avoid danger, and potentially to get away. After all, her powers look like a demonic bat, and there's a LOT of villagers with pitchforks that she probably wouldn't want to meet that might mistake her for a Monster...
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Re: Thoughts on the New Warlock Hero?

Postby Davane » Friday December 4th, 2020 11:42am

Cael Darkhollow wrote:In my head all fantasy games roughly belong in the same world so I would like things to be generally consistent. For example with dwarf or elf races you know exactly what your are going to get built upon established fantasy lore, a dragon is a dragon and a skeleton is a skeleton; generally consistent regardless if you are playing D&D, Gauntlet, Warhammer, HeroQuest, Zelda, Dragon Warrior or whatever. These recognizable tropes are important for game world immersion.

"Warlock" in general is taken to mean a male witch or spellcaster, usually of evil intent, so for them to reinvent the term for this new character class seems stupid. (I have not played 5th edition D&D, perhaps the "new" warlock definition stems from there?) Suddenly we aren't really consistent with the established fantasy folklore.
Reaper can sell miniatures for nearly any fantasy game because they understand this principle fantasy gamers want a generic consistent fantasy world as a basis. New stuff can be introduced as long as it doesn't trample established lore. If someone starts calling their new 8 armed bat winged snake headed monstrosities "dyrads" or "Goblins" in a new game, they will immediately raise eyebrows, scoffs, ire and derisive comments from veteran fantasy gamers, "that isn't a dyrad you fool." They should have just come up with a new name.


To me a demon possessed character wouldn't be a welcome addition to the adventuring party, rather they would be tied up waiting for the arrival of the priest or attacked outright if the host could not be saved. Villagers would be tying them to the stake, not having a pint with them at the tavern.


Although the Warlock is used as a generic term, the source for the Warlock as a class seems to be D&D 3.5, in the book Complete Arcane. The Warlock is essentially a spellcaster that gets their powers from a pack with some other entity (as opposed to a Sorcerer, which get's it through hereditary genetics). Their key feature is that they have a consistent ranged attack spell. In D&D 3.x, the Wizard was designed as a flexible utility magic caster with access to a lot of spells in their spellbook, but could only cast a few. The Sorcerer, on the other hand, knew a few spells, but could cast more spells than the Wizard, and didn't need to prepare them first. Psions use MP to power psionic effects. However, all three classes, like all spellcasters, had limits to how many spells they could cast before needing to rest.

The Warlock was designed to change this - giving them a ranged magical attack that they could use infinitely, like a fighter can use a sword. Whilst the Warlock had other abilities, these were mostly character choices that remained permanent buffs or usable abilities, combined with a few spell slots. The warlock essentially choses a few spells or effects that they can use constantly, as if you always had it cast. So, the Eldritch Blast was like having an infinite supply of ranged magical attacks, like magic missile, but without the automatic hit. The warlock could choose abilities like having permanent Mage Armour. Thematically, the Warlock bargained for these gifts, and often had a book of shadows (from witch lore) to store the knowledge of these gifts in. I believe the Warlock was even able to use the abilities straight out of their "Book of Shadows" so they could be a bit like a Wizard or Witch. The Warlock became a core class in 4th and 5th Edition D&D, and in D&D in particular, the Warlock is essentially a less flashy Wizard that gets abilities based on where their powers come from. Demons are just one of the beings able to grant the Warlock their powers - others include creatures beyond the stars (Cthulhu), Liches, Fae, Shadow, and Angels.

So yeah, the Halfling Warlock is literally a D&D character taken right out of the Player's Handbook...
Last edited by Davane on Saturday December 5th, 2020 3:33am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Warlock... as Ranger instead ?

Postby Kurgan » Friday December 4th, 2020 6:39pm

Kurgan wrote:Your oath has been fulfilled!

Ranger

You are the Ranger, a skilled hunter who has bonded with dark Elves, being gifted with their secret skills of woodcraft. Let your allies protect you while you deal damage from afar. Counts as Wizard hero for the purposes of which weapons, artifacts, and equipment they can use.



Ranger's Unique Weapon:

Sylvan Bow


This bow gives you the attack strength of 2 combat dice against any monster you can "see." A Ranger may purchase a bow for 125 gold coins. Wielded by any other Hero, it only attacks with 1 combat die, since they lack the special skill.



The Ranger's three spells:

Hunter Mode


The Ranger ignores pit traps and may roll 1 extra combat die each time they attack, until the spell is broken. The spell is broken when the Hero suffers 1 point of Body damage.

Regain this spell when you reduce a monster's Body points to zero.

Intimidate

This spell causes any one monster to become so fearful that their attacks are reduced to one combat die. The spell can be broken on a future turn by rolling one red die for each of their Mind Points. If a 6 is rolled, the spell is broken.

Camouflage

Cast this spell on an enemy’s turn after you have suffered damage. Reduce that damage to 0 and move instantly to any unoccupied square you can "see."


images grabbed from the web... feel free to make your own!


This miniature might be usefulto go along with it... (search for female Gnome Rogue) or there's also a ranger...
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Re: Thoughts on the New Warlock Hero?

Postby j_dean80 » Thursday December 10th, 2020 11:16am

I ordered this one from Hero Forge not being able to find a decent alt.
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