AGAINST THE OGRE HORDE discussion

[emlit]

Yes, I couldn't pass it up.

Almost as good a deal as the Mythic Tier support in the HasLab campaign. $149.99 was a steal! I wish I had bought two...

[Kurgan]

Big images! That's the big box edition, like what was sold in 2021.

Yeah maybe in the next 2-3 weeks we'll see the pre-order and then release in mid-late March for ATOH, and maybe people will still get it early somewhere along the way.

Maybe the "real" big announcement at the end of February will be Jungles of Delthrak being officially confirmed with details, officially.

[Chwat]

Big images! That's the big box edition, like what was sold in 2021.

what the differences in size, and yearly release? any pics about.

[Kurgan]

Yeah those image sizes are huge. They take up my whole screen!

[j_dean80]

Shouldn't these posts be in a different thread, for example the base game thread?

[Kurgan]

Feel free to skip this point if you're not into nitpicking tiny details and online arguments... it was a subject on our recent RantCastPodcast (Episode #30 last night on twitch).

on Fleabay 99Quid

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To the few people saying these are fake, I disagree. If it were a clumsy fake like the images on Pixiegames (a legit store that sells real products, but uses mockup images on pre-order pages... a practice I disagree with, by the way) as placeholders they would be instantly recognizable as such. The fact that it doesn't conform to earlier fan speculations and expectations (no stone dice, female dwarf, ogre chest, cardboard doors, etc) and debunks earlier rumors goes in its favor. The sale being cancelled simply shows me that someone from Hasbro intervened to prevent an early (legit) released sale from crossing over into a market prior to the retail release window. Time will tell, but just because it's "possible" something is fake doesn't mean it is reasonable to assume it is. This has nothing to do with PixieGames. Those who can't believe a HeroQuest expansion would be released early and not officially acknowledged by HasbroGaming/Avalon Hill doesn't mean a thing as that's been the case with ALL of the previous expansions (with the possible exception of Rise of the Dread Moon). The ebay page is gone (and sadly not archived) but I've saw it with my own eyes. The idea that someone made a fake set of images, printed them out and stuck them to a box and shrink wrapped it and took photos and sold it on ebay only to cancel and refund it... to fool some fans shortly before the wide release, seems pushing it, considering the quality of the images.

The only case someone might make is that the image appears "grainy" and therefore is a print out rather than a professionally made product. To that I would point out that the releases since Frozen Horror have had a "linen" finish which you can see is the texture of the box in these images, and is to be expected.

Many things are possible, but not all theories are equally plausible. It's "possible" that ATOH is cancelled, but not likely to the point of being an easy theory to discard at this point. By the same token I would be highly skeptical of anyone saying these images are fakes and that's not what the final box back of ATOH looks like. One can always be skeptical of such things, even if "HasbroPulse says it" (the images on Hasbro's own page are often CGI mockups and not photos of the physical final product!).

But keeping the conspiracy feeling alive, I am going on vacation for a few days, so I fully expect new revelations will come out in the meantime.

[LucaRocks]

Maybe Hasbro used its employees to spread the 'its a fake!' rumor lol.

It looked real to me when I first saw it and I highly doubt it's a fake.

[wallydubbs]

It looks like 2 Dwarven Druids with a shapeshifting counterpart as a wolf. Although the image is grainy on the back of the box those look like the same spells the Druid has from the Mythic Tier. Even if the stats are the same, the Druid's not that powerful of a hero, so I wouldn't be entering them in the World's End Tournament.
We can see Hero Quest is leaning away from generic hero races, the Dwarf and Elf are the only heroes that aren't of a specific class.
We also have double spaced Ogres, which are clearly the Ogre Lord, Champion and Chieftain.
We also have Orc and Skeleton Archers as well as what appears to be Goblins wielding smoke bombs. The Ogre throne, Nice! A Double door, or gate, I should say but only a closed one. And of course the stone doorways. This'll be interesting.

[LucaRocks]

How much are you guys willing to bet that the arena mode uses the BP tracker in some form? They say it's a new game mode and I'm thinking a BP tracker would make the arena just that.

So basically, I think the hero would enter and no matter what monsters you threw at him, they would all abide by the predetermined BP on the tracker. That way you could have a skeleton with 4 BP to represent how skilled he is in the arena. Or how much experience he has. Next you could throw a goblin because you can see on the BP tracker that they next monster goes down with only 1 hit. Or the one hit monster could be a Polar Warbear just to make it more fun (like the hero rolled a critical or something).

Again just speculation but I think it could work.

[Kurgan]

Druid is not powerful? Amalgamash challenged this notion on his last video and I'm inclined to agree with him. Of course all claims of a hero being "strong" or "weak" to me really only matter if it's a solo quest (we still don't know exactly how this "Arena Mode" will work), and if it's structured around that particular hero, it doesn't matter (a solo quest for the Wizard will tend to be lighter on monsters than one geared for the Barbarian... assuming the designers had time to playtest!). HeroQuest is a "team sport" as it turns out. But still...

Lets revisit the Druid hero from the Haslab campaign (granted, the wording of the Shapeshift spell did change slightly in the final version, the official clarification from WanderingMonster aka Doug Hopkins, is that it doesn't increase the strength of ranged attacks but it truly does granted 1 EXTRA defend die and 1 EXTRA attack die for the duration of the spell).

Druid Playtest from 2020

Druid begins with only a dagger. 1 Attack die. But no restrictions on weapons. She can thus carry a crossbow, longsword, and battle axe once she can afford or finds them.
Standard 2 defend dice. 6 Body Points and 4 Mind points (same as the Elf, hence decent durability and magic resistance).

Weakness: May not wear metal armor. After many official clarifications now seen exactly what that means. "Metal Armor" applies to the helmet, Chainmail, Plate Mail and variants of those. It doesn't apply to Shields or Bracers. So the Druid can acquire those latter two (bracers are expensive, 550 gold) to max out normal defense at 4 dice (which of course says nothing about boosts to stats from potions or spells!).

The Druid has 3 spells. One ("LifeForce") is identical to Heal Body/Water of Healing (+4 BP). So there's your death save or team save, but consider the other two spells:

Pixie seems weak at first glance, but it has two functions. One is a simple reveal of Traps/Secret Doors in a location you can "see." Seems weak, rarely used. But then again it doesn't mean those areas needing to be free of monsters as with regular searches. There's room for interpretation on this one. It might refer to the entire room or corridor you're in, but might also extend to your full line of sight (for example if you're at a crossroads or if you can see also through a doorway into the next room). A maximal interpretation of this spell could make it quite useful, rather than just assuming it combines a standard search for traps & secret doors akin to the Monk's "Speak with Stone."

But this spells alternate function restores 2 Lost BP. Very useful as a second death save or team save!

Next we look at the ever debated Shapeshift (or "bear form" as some call it, though looks like we're getting a wolf mini for flavor in the next one)... ShapeShift lasts until the Druid takes 1 BP of damage. Hence, like Rock Skin, it can be cast at the beginning of a quest and (in theory) could last the entire adventure! Not only that, but it can be regained IF the Druid's BP are returned to their starting number (6 BP). This might encourage the hero to heal themselves with their two healing spells to keep this bonus going. At first, with only a dagger that means 2 attack die close up (a thrown dagger doesn't benefit from the spell, according to the published version) and 3 defend dice. But adding equipment means the total still increases. So...

Shortsword = 3 attack
Broadsword = 4 attack
Crossbow = 3 attack (ranged doesn't benefit from this particular spell)
BattleAxe = 5 attack

Even unarmed would be 2 dice (like the Monk) under the effects of this spell. Consider also that the Shapeshift spell is not ONLY for the Druid, it could be used on any hero in the party with the same effects. Another possible loophole for the spell... it says "your starting number" meaning the Druid. When the Druid is healed back to 6 BP, he or she gets that ability again.

A bit confusingly, the published version of the Shapeshift spell (included in the Mythic box released in 2021), at first sounds like it is reducing your defense to 1 die when in combat, but this was clarified to be incorrect. The bonus is for one of each type of combat dice while the spell is in effect (heroes normally don't have to defend while attacking!). The new card specifies "adjacent" meaning it wouldn't boost diagonal or ranged attacks. But the wording of "Your" implies again it is referring to the Druid who cast the spell, not whatever hero it was cast upon.

So what would stop the Druid from casting Shapeshift on a fellow hero, then healing up, casting it on another hero, etc. and as long as they kept healing themselves up and the other hero didn't lose it (by taking a BP of damage) the entire party might end up boosted?

Then again some might point to the use of "You" and the lack of "any one hero including yourself" and say that Shapeshift is only usable on the Druid, period. Why it doesn't just say "druid" but "the hero" I'm not sure. Will the spell be further clarified in the ATOH text? It's been finished for a long time now, but Doug or whomever could always post further clarification of the intentions behind it later if they wished. The Companion App is no help, simply advising the player to follow the instructions on the card for Shapeshift. It does interpret Pixie as working when monsters are visible but limits the search to the room you're in (and searches both sides of a crossroads just like how the App handles all corridor searches as a limitation of the program).

(Haslab playtest version):
Shapeshift grants you 1 extra attack and defend dice.
The spell is broken when the Hero suffers 1 point of
Body damage. Regain this spell when your body points
return to their starting number.

(Mythic release version):
Shapeshift grants you 1 Defend dice and 1 extra Attack dice
when attacking a monster that you are adjacent to. The spell is
broken when the hero suffers 1 Body Point of damage. Regain
this spell when your Body Points return to their starting number.

Doug's notes:

The Druid has comparable statistics to the Elf. They can use most weapons in the game but their armor is limited. They will rely of their own spells and the spells of their allies to keep them healthy.

The illustrations above are the game art for the Druid’s three spells:

• Shapeshift

Shapeshift grants you 1 extra Attack and Defend dice. The spell is broken when the hero suffers 1 point of Body damage. Regain this spell when your Body Points return to their starting number.

• Pixie

This spell conjures up a Pixie who will do one of the following: Restore up to two Body points that have been lost to one hero or search. The Pixie will reveal all traps and secret doors in any location you can "see."

• Lifeforce

This spell may be cast on any one hero, including yourself. Its magical power will immediately restore up to 4 lost Body Points, but it does not give a hero more than their starting number.

The idea here is that the Druid can fulfil a melee protector role in their quest with the use of their Shapeshift spell. Hopefully they can regain this spell with a combination of spells, potions, and teamwork.