THE SPIRIT QUEEN'S TORMENT discussion

[LucaRocks]

That's what I'm hoping they'll do with the re-release. By tweaking it and adding some extra spectors to the mix, they will get more people to buy it. A straight re-release is something many might pass on if they already have the Mythic Tier.

[Kurgan]

Dave Morris' novels get a bad rap from some people for some reason (who cares if they're "not canon" ?). They have not just the lore from the prose adventure but also (2nd and 3rd books) a free solo quest, not just the "choose your own adventure" style game book. And the author allowed their release for free in digital format some years back which is cool too. But Encarmine said they don't consider them canon "anymore." That implies they were once canon for UK HeroQuest, just saying... rather than re-writing them, I'd say they should hire him on to write some new Gamebooks set in the new HeroQuest world, I'd buy it! (physical copies please)

[LucaRocks]

I'm not at all surprised that it's not canon anymore. AH doesn't want any baggage from the old game so they can do whatever they want. I don't think it's malicious or anything. It's just good business sense. I'm sure they will use all the old stuff that's not canon eventually anyway. For those is us who didn't grow up with the novels or ever read them, it would be good to do some thing with them as well. Unless they don't want to pay the OG authors or something like that.

[The Admiral]

The heroes are told that the mixture of elemental magic and chaos magic should not be possible... whomever wrote this Quest book was not familiar with the fire mage in the original game system. Fire counts as an element, right? Even tempest and sleep spells are used by chaos sorcerers. This error went by unnoticed.

There is indeed much wrong with this quest, much of which is set out in your original post above. I originally thought this nonsense too. As if we'd never seen a chaos sorcerer with a lightning bolt and a ball of flame, but I believe in this instance it is not a mistake. I think the point is that Kavra can cast those spells simultaneously, and that is what is meant by using chaos and elemental magic together.

I am currently playing through this quest, and the good orcs don't sit well with me either. I can accept a few 'traitors' who for whatever reasons of their own have turned against their Kin? Revenge, betrayal, money etc? But orcs in general, no. So I have just made a simple change to the story. Change Orc to Elf in Silvana's intro and it makes more sense to me. I even used the Elf Scout from RotDM for Sigill. I'm happy to keep Udred. For Quest 8 I am going to treat all the underwater monsters as Elf spirits and use the Specters for them. Same rules and stats, but no spells. Orcs in Quest 9 will likewise be Elf spirits. I'll also change the Abominations in that quest to Mummies.

Quest 8 Note D an elf spirit rises. "Long have I guarded....I also present you with Orc's Bane. It shall aid you against the spirits below. "Any of you...." And it will, because it's an artifact and counts skulls against specters.
Quest 9 Note C is a Spectral elf. "You wield Orc's Bane. Use it wisely against our foes. The Spirit Queen has etc..."

[Kurgan]

I'm not at all surprised that it's not canon anymore. AH doesn't want any baggage from the old game so they can do whatever they want. I don't think it's malicious or anything. It's just good business sense. I'm sure they will use all the old stuff that's not canon eventually anyway. For those is us who didn't grow up with the novels or ever read them, it would be good to do some thing with them as well. Unless they don't want to pay the OG authors or something like that.

See I don't get that attitude (no offense), what you call "baggage" others are nostalgic about. Sure, as an American, I don't remember "Morcar" or the "Old World Map." I don't remember the Adventure Design Kit, Wizards of Morcar or Against the Ogre Horde, the Marvel Winter Special, Sticker Album or the Jigsaw puzzles. Does that mean those things are nothing and should be thrown in the trash?

I'm thinking for the people who do remember those things and are nostalgic about them. As much of that "legacy" stuff they can re-release and acknowledge, I say, the better. Does HeroQuest NEED to be filled with material created in the 21st century? Surely they want to make new stuff, but it seems to me that part of their mission IS to bring that "old stuff" back into the public eye, even if people didn't remember it. Otherwise they were wasting their time bringing Frozen Horror and Mage of the Mirror to Europe, because people there didn't remember those either (heck, people over here barely remember those, and for good reason!).

That some fans demand a "filled in gaps" chronology with everything defined is a weakness and they are trying hard to skirt away from that while simultaneously not alienating people who want more of that. I can understand the situation they'd be in if they released a bowdlerized rewritten version of the three novels with all the Warhammer stuff renamed to other things (rewriting books is pretty controversial these days witness recent examples). What I think they ought to do is invite Dave Morris back to write some new novels in the spirit of the old ones, but focused on their new "lore." And if Dave is not willing, maybe somebody else who is a fan who can write something of equal quality should be brought on board. The point is not to say that THIS is the "canon adventure" overriding the board game adventures you have, it's just another optional way to enjoy the world of the game when you don't have the game with you and nobody else to play with (but also with addons when you do... each book had multiple ways to play).

[The Admiral]

I just played Quest 8. There is no indication of what happens when heroes reach 0 Mind Points? I'm assuming they die, because if shock rules are used, even if everyone was in shock they would still eventually finish the Quest as there is no way to lose Body Points except through hazard treasure cards.

[wallydubbs]

That some fans demand a "filled in gaps" chronology with everything defined is a weakness and they are trying hard to skirt away from that while simultaneously not alienating people who want more of that. I can understand the situation they'd be in if they released a bowdlerized rewritten version of the three novels with all the Warhammer stuff renamed to other things (rewriting books is pretty controversial these days witness recent examples). What I think they ought to do is invite Dave Morris back to write some new novels in the spirit of the old ones, but focused on their new "lore." And if Dave is not willing, maybe somebody else who is a fan who can write something of equal quality should be brought on board. The point is not to say that THIS is the "canon adventure" overriding the board game adventures you have, it's just another optional way to enjoy the world of the game when you don't have the game with you and nobody else to play with (but also with addons when you do... each book had multiple ways to play).

I can understand and respect this, after all, they got Stephen Baker to come back and write a quest pack. Anyone with a creative mindset can read all the AH source material and come up with a story, even I have done this years ago. Games like Dark World and Hero Quest from my youth stayed in my mind to the point I can read and write and I started writing a novel based on it. Morris' books were pretty good and her just needs to follow the established canon: King stuck in Keller's Keep, ancient frozen evil in the Northland's; civil unrest in the Elven Kingdom. A story could be written about all this and more as long as it fits.

[Kurgan]

I'd go a step further and say they should write novels where the canon is not followed. Like one where the King is trapped in Kellar's Keep and killed before the heroes can rescue him. Maybe another novel where the Witch Lord defeats the Realm and Zargon's forces overrun a large portion of the region. Maybe one where Sinestra becomes the new ruler of the Elven Kingdom. Sure, and they can also have the ones where the good guys won everything, but there could be a "dark future" storyline too which could be interesting, where the heroes have to a harder time?

[Kurgan]

I just played Quest 8. There is no indication of what happens when heroes reach 0 Mind Points? I'm assuming they die, because if shock rules are used, even if everyone was in shock they would still eventually finish the Quest as there is no way to lose Body Points except through hazard treasure cards.

I highly doubt they had the shock rules in mind (work hadn't even begun on the Frozen Horror remake though the plan to bring HQ to retail was apparently always in the minds of the AH team). Given the circumstances of this quest (spoilers) 'unconscious' would be the same as "death" here. I'd play it that a living hero could drag the body of their fallen comrade to the place where you can restore their mind points (section B). Otherwise the only way to avoid this form of death would be to have a potion that restores even 1 lost mind point handy to use at the moment they go to zero (Potion of Restoration, identical to the one from KK/ROTWL is sold at this pack's Alchemist Shop). That seems to be the only place in the quest where this is a likely possibility.

[The Admiral]

"unconcious" Where is that mentioned please?