WIZARDS OF MORCAR discussion

[Kurgan]

Thinking back... we knew about Frozen Horror via a store leak (on these very forums!) a month before the "official tease" at Hasbro PulseCon. There was that massive store leak that told us that SQT & PoT were coming to retail, that the Path of the Wandering Monk was coming, and that ATOH was a real thing all at once (basically a year's worth of expansions!).

I'm trying to think now which expansions had NO prior warning, following the Haslab campaign.. The Guardian Knight? Mage of the Mirror? The Rogue Heir of Elethorn?

Seems like everything else has gotten an official tease, or more likely a "leak" ahead of that. And it's also been rare that something was not come out before the officially announced release date (ROTDM comes to mind as one that came out right on time... note that I'm not referring to any "review copies" given to influencers).

Even First Light, I personally got an insider leak about it (even though some of the details were wrong) ahead of time, and a "new game system" was something rumored for a long time, though the idea of a "starter set coming to retail" was not, though it was a wish. I remember we talked about that very early on, and I'm sure someone at Hasbro was listening, just like they listen to other insights, like players wanting fancy shimmery combat dice to buy.

Doug told us that everything is a rumor until it's officially confirmed, and I know some of us speculate that stuff gets leaked "on purpose" as part of, what SirDeath might call, "guerilla marketing" but then these stores have to put the stuff out when they do. It wouldn't make sense for Hasbro to lie to them or give them info before they're ready (this is Hasbro we're talking about here not some small indy developer). It also wouldn't make much sense for these established stores to just make up stuff, putting up fake pre-orders.

So while I can expect a placeholder stock image, even a boilerplate lore description (copied from the original heroquest expansion), I would expect the title, approximate price, and approximate date to be pretty accurate.

That's why I believe CoPD retail and WOM remake will get a wide release sometime between June at the earliest or by December (at the latest) of this year. The way Doug tells it, they have no plans to just "end" the franchise at some arbitrary date (even December 31st, 2026 just because of that legal date on the HQ Companion App's page, that, as seekhashem would want to remind me, did change... the date we see now is an extension of the earlier one).

First Light may prove to be a game changer. If the franchise was ever in trouble (no clue if it ever was) that success may boost their plans for all we know.

[Kurgan]

In all of these, with an exception of Keller's Keep, it's the heroes thwarting plans that are potentially linked to Zargon. Zargon is never the main boss, he's only hatching schemes or trying to gain allies. But when you get right down to it, all of these plots could exist without Zargon. The King is held up at Keller's Keep and needs the heroes to find an escape for his forced; The Talisman of Lore needs an exorcism; Spirit Queen has been corrupted and needs to lay to rest; The Witch Lord himself is a big enough threat that he needs to be removed; same with the Frozen Horror; the civil war in Elthorn has the least connection to Zargon; the Blight can be spreading with or without Zargon's input; and unless Zargon lives in the Dark Tower the Crypt of Perpetual Darkness has little linked to him.

In a Wizard's of Morcar/Zargon I'd like something linking the bad guys much closer to Zargon to suggest the heroes are getting closer to the big bad.

Insightful comments. Are the designers always thinking of the larger world and the bigger picture? Everything has to be linked back to Zargon in some way, but yes, the idea of a more personal fight is still intriguing. The rumor that we'll have a showdown with the man himself (in whatever guise) sounds interesting, but it could also be done poorly or come off badly if they're not careful. I could easily imagine a kind of one off "I'll get you next time Gadget" kind of ending to such a thing, as opposed to, oh wow, you killed him, I guess the world is saved, the end! Of course if you read the others as you're saying, it's kind of like, getting rid of Zargon might really not do much anyway... these evil forces will still be out there without their leader. Yes, the trouble started "centuries ago" with Morcar/Zargon (don't forget Grimdead!*), but there was obviously a problem before that. These "powers of Chaos" (or Dread, now) existed to be a temptation for this young wizard's apprentice.

I have a feeling though that they would not take such a risk to put a definitive "ending" to what has been the world of HeroQuest as we know it, that is, unless they somehow knew it was the "LAST" release. But if they market it as an end cap, a final spoiler, etc. that's risky... what if the final episode/season is a let down? What if it prevents people getting it (or wanting to play it) until after they've tried everything else? Or maybe, as a publicity stunt, it would get more people to buy it, thinking it was some kind of shocking "ending"? Of course once the word gets out about that, it could backfire. People wouldn't want the franchise to "end" even on paper. I mean, nothing lasts forever, but even so, the writers of the past HeroQuest COULD have simply scribbled down at the end of the Elf or Barbarian pack something like "and thanks to the success of the band of heroes, Zargon's forces were routed, and his final defeat was achieved. Congratulations, the land knew peace after that, THE END." It would have been so easy to do that, but they didn't. Truly HeroQuest doesn't actually end, because every pack (other than JoD) ends now with a copy of the blank map that greets you with the idea that you can write the next chapter yourself...

* Actually now that I think about it, there wasn't so much backstory, prologue or introduction to Grimdead in the Japanese edition. Mentor is not mentioned (only his seal and portrait, if you think that's him... remain without explanation). HispaZargon can correct me on this but maybe the only thing we got besides the quest introductions themselves, and a description that as the Demon King Grimdead "rules the world of darkness," and this the image below:

[wallydubbs]

What I think they need to do with Wizard's of Morcar is stick with a story that these Sorcerers were trained by Zargon himself for the specific purpose that the Emperor's accursed heroes have ruined all of his plans. Perhaps the heroes will need to defeat the 4 sorcerer's to find Zargon's new fortress. The heroes go to attack the fortress and instead of fighting Zargon they walk into the trap of the 4 sorcerers laying it wait (Final Conflict). So the heroes thought they were getting close to Zargon, but while they're fighting his trained sorcerers that's when the attack comes at the beginning of Crypt of Perpetual Darkness.

[HispaZargon]

Yeah, good approach wallydubbs. I also suspect that things in the new WoM/Z will go in that way or close to it.

About Grimdead lore, not too much else than what Kurgan pointed. Questbook include a bit more if checking quest notes and parchments but thats all.

[wallydubbs]

Yeah, good approach wallydubbs. I also suspect that things in the new WoM/Z will go in that way or close to it.

On the off chance of them actually remaking Wizards of Morcar (I'm losing hope) I would hope they do take my approach, but if they were to keep the name Wizard's of Morcar, to avoid confusion in Morcar and Zargon being the same person, they would more likely change Morcar to a place.

[LucaRocks]

"Losing hope" regarding the re-release? Or did I misunderstand?

I really think it's a give at this point that WOM will be re-released. I mean it's a no brainer for them to just redo content they already have half done (i.e. they don't need to come up with stuff completely from scratch). I think they needed extra time for this one because of redoing the new hero spells and adding the extra quests.

ATOH came first partially, I'm sure, because they didn't need to add anything new as far as spells or artifacts. Yes, the arena was a brand new thing but let's face it, making a combat mode doesn't take nearly as long as designing full quests. You just get a basic mechanic going and then plug in different enemies for each quest. My one fear is that they will add nothing new to WOM except a few minis and extra quests. Or that they will leave all the wizard spells pretty much the same and call it "being true to the original release" instead of what it really is... Hasbro being Hasbro lol.

I also think it was delayed because FL's release kind of got in the way.

And to all the naysayers out there, I'm sticking.to my guns... I 100% def feel that one one the Wizards will be changed to a female. And I'm almost just as sure that they will change one of the wizards race.

It's the same guy feeling I had when everyone was saying the character on the ATOH box cover was an Ogre Shaman and I was adamant that I thought it was a female ogre warrior. WOM will fit the pattern they established!

[wallydubbs]

No, you understand me correctly, they've never actually confirmed the remake. If all they needed to do was remake it they absolutely would have without working out all the bugs (much like Frozen Horror). The issue is not coming up with something from scrap (which would have been easier), it's the fact that this quest pack screws with some of the underlying mechanics and names of previous quest packs. This was a European expansion that included new aspects to the European version, the subtle difference of the North American version has several inconsistencies:
Potion of Alchemy: selling back items to the armory was a North American mechanic, at half the price, but this potion only allows the heroes to sell back for 100 gold. If you use it on a dagger there's a 75 gold profit, but if you use it on a Battle Axe you're getting less then the sell back price.
Potion of Magical Aptitude: is rendered pointless if the Wizard has the Wand of Magic (Which was not in the original European version).
Mercenaries: the standard cost of mercenaries is the same as the Frozen Horror, but in Wizard's of Morcar the cost of keeping mercenaries was 10 gold, instead of repaying full price.
The Potions of Fire Resistance: is overruled by a Potion of Magic Resistance. As most fire in the game is caused by Magic.
Poison: cards effect the physical body points in the European version, but our poison cards from Frozen Horror goes after mind points.
Evil Sorcerer spells: most of these are vastly under par and much weaker then North American Chaos/Dread spells. None of them take into account heroes mind points. Some of them share names with common Chaos/Dread spells but have slightly if not totally different effects.
The new Wizard spells: these are subpar too and need to reworked as well to compare to the existing Elemental Spells. Now thanks to the Cloak of Shadows from Rise of the Dread Moon the Darkness spell will need to be renamed as well.
The Fireburst trap on the Magical Reference Chart was confusing and needs different mechanics.

Now none of these that I've mentioned are game breaking changes and would need to be reworked. It's just a question if Avalon Hill wants to bother correcting an outdated quest pack. I don't foresee them remaking the Wizard or Dwarf quest packs when all Hasbro has to do is look back in their archives, that would require learning the mechanics of a broken quest pack and trying to fix it. Wizards of Morcar isn't as broken as these quest packs for sure, but it would require more difficulty then they might be willing to get into.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see them release it too, but with all the name changes and adjustments required they might just choose not to.

[Nlinindoll]

Wizards of Morcar has already shown up on wholesale distributor catalogues. It’s coming.

[Kurgan]

Isn't the Wand of Recall just like the Wand of Magic though?

My point there is that there's only one, so having the other for the other magic user is fine. It's a little like complaining that you can't have another piece of Armor like Borin's Armor (but you can, because only one hero can wear it at a time). Potion of Alchemy could double the value of the object in gold, perhaps, instead of just making it a flat 100.

Some of the evil wizard spells are stronger than their NA counterparts. Rust destroys any equipment, not just helmet/swords... the summoning spells let the monsters move and attack immediately instead of acting as human shields for the boss until the next Zargon turn (if they live that long). The hero spells are the ones that generally feel underpowered, I agree.

There are issues yes, but I don't see them as insurmountable.

I had a little bit of skepticism, but it's like with Mage of the Mirror... as soon as Frozen Horror was coming out, I knew it was only a matter of time. So once ATOH was greenlit, and they spoke about WOM with improvements, that to me was a very good sign. And yeah, at this point no way is it NOT coming out. The store leaks cinch it... they've never steered us wrong before.

Frozen Horror didn't give us new female swaps of characters (I say "new" because the female barbarian was there in the '92 version).. except when it came to the mercenaries. They might do the same here with WOM (I hope they swap the opposite ones this time, but then they might just give us the exact same sculpts and distributions in red this time. which wouldn't be terrible, though could be a bit boring for all of us that would own both).

Wizards of Morcar has already shown up on wholesale distributor catalogues. It’s coming.

Boom!

[wallydubbs]

I'm perfectly happy being wrong about this, I'm actually hoping I am. It's just that I never heard full confirmation from Avalon Hill or Hasbro about this. I'm assuming with nothing said about the lost Wizard and Dwarf quest packs in Hasbro's archives those won't be coming out either.

Thank you for correcting me on the Wand of Recall. I actually didn't know it was supposed to come with the European version. I had bought an old Advanced Quest with all the red mercenary miniatures years, it was 98% complete and this Wand of Recall card was apparently one of the few missing items, which I didn't realize until looking up the European version just now.

Don't fault me for being worried. I understand that the gaming industry has its ebbs and flows. There are simple classic games that have been on the market for decades, I didn't think Hero Quest falls into that. Asides from us die-hards it has a lifespan within the market. HeroQuest has been back for a couple years now and changing up the repertoire in First Light is, as some would think, a sign of decline. So I very much hope we see a few more expansions before HeroQuest subsequently dies out again (there's also the off chance that they'll keep it around, which is even better). I'm just afraid that if they haven't remade Wizards of Morcar yet they may not get around to it. Again, I hope y'all are right.