Thoughts on the New Orc Bard Hero?

[Pancho]

But we are not talking about Saga the Game (I’ve never even heard of it), we are talking about Heroquest.
A orc joining a Hero party in Heroquest is weird enough by itself. But a foppish, dashing orc bard that wields a rapier and sings with its hand on its heart is just plain stupid, given the source material.

My point Genius is that I found a work around for my table

any schmuck should be able to make up some story that fits their table

Okaaay. But it doesn’t fit HEROQUEST, which is the point I was making. You can force-fit Pokemon into your HQ game if it makes you happy, but it wouldn’t actually be Heroquest, and most fans wouldn’t appreciate it.

[cynthialee]

Seeing how HeroQuest has very little lore to it and you have to default to War Hammer I say your point is null

[Kurgan]

I like the idea of the Bard being an NPC, rather than a Hero character. But I think his overall abilities and style conform pretty closely to a Cleric, so I would transform him into that character, honestly.

As a comedy one off player (to get your goofy friend to join up at the last minute) he's fine. I'd be tempted to create a whole "Corsairs of the Cairubeenia" campaign to make this particular mini fit (Arrr, there ye be, the old dog did it!).

This particular Orc, he's such a freak, he had no choice but to flee the Chaos Wastes and seek his fortune as a sword for hire. Then again, why make him a good guy at all? Maybe he's the captain of a band of bloodthirsty high seas plunderers working Zargon's naval campaign against Imperial ports? Pirate Orc beats Orc Bard every time for me. What pirate doesn't enjoy the odd sea chanty and a bottle o' rum? Give him a musket (1 shot, like Fire of Wrath) and change that Rapier into a cutlass. If you spare his life, maybe he'll lead you to the hidden Treasure (or an ambush!)...

[Oftkilted]

But we are not talking about Saga the Game (I’ve never even heard of it), we are talking about Heroquest.
A orc joining a Hero party in Heroquest is weird enough by itself. But a foppish, dashing orc bard that wields a rapier and sings with its hand on its heart is just plain stupid, given the source material.

My point Genius is that I found a work around for my table

any schmuck should be able to make up some story that fits their table

Okaaay. But it doesn’t fit HEROQUEST, which is the point I was making. You can force-fit Pokemon into your HQ game if it makes you happy, but it wouldn’t actually be Heroquest, and most fans wouldn’t appreciate it.

Why doesn’t it fit HeroQuest? Can you point out to me in the HeroQuest novels where there is a conflict? Or with the comic book? Are we looking at official quests being a problem? I haven’t seen anything indicating that it is “impossible”. There isn’t anywhere that I’ve seen that says that “Orc bards don’t exist”.

Sure, if we stick to an idea that HeroQuest is explicitly and only in WH Fantasy ... sure ... but that really stopped being a thing with Quest for the Elf, and the Frozen Waste Barbarian Quest. Which both had very “non-Warhammer fantasy” models as in game lore.

We all have our preconceived notions of what the state of the lore is. With the upcoming “Sprit Queen’s Torment” quest that we’ll see next fall I expect that we won’t have the lore issue that is frustrating you greatly right now.

[Kurgan]

It was the Spirit Queen who first introduced the Orcs to Rock 'n' Roll and sparked a revolution! ?

Many things are possible. Good point about the EQP/BQP, and this is based on the NA base, but EU players surely can shrug those off a lot easier in their own continuity. Ignoring the Orc Bard would be pretty easy. How interwoven would he be with these new quests? Nobody says you have to play those either.. these are just in the bonus "unlocks" of the mythic tier.

I would treat this similar to the situation with Sir Ragnar. In my view, Ragnar is a hero. He would never betray the Empire. But if I were an Eu player, I would have grown up with the canonical fact that he was executed as a traitor (Spoiler alert!). I'm even over the "Mentor is actually Zargon" revelation that blew my mind this year. There are different continuities, and maybe in this one, there is the soul of a poet inside each Orc trying to get out, and this one green dreamer is leading the charge? But anybody who didn't buy those packs will have no clue unless you tell them. And they can always mod the parts they don't like away easily enough...

I've never read the novels (and judging by the prices they go for these days, it may be a long time, if ever, that I do). I take it as one person's interpretation even if it's officially liscensed. I never saw the sticker album's content until fairly recently. Before I started visiting the Inn (around '02) I had no idea much of the content differences outside North America even existed! What a joy to discover the Portuguese quests and the Japanese game system!

As the veteran survivor of many lately-added-to or rebooted franchises, I can sympathize with the changes not being to everyone's liking. But this is still fantasy, we won't have to play by their rules if we don't want to (that's part of the fun!). And who knows, maybe at the 40th anniversary we'll get something more to our liking out of the official channels?

I'm with those who would rather they had remade one of the classic quest packs instead of what we got with the unlocks, but there is a certain amount of anticipation of surprise that is enjoyable as well. For now we'll just have to mod our own Ogres and chaos Sorcerers and Elves to fit with the rest if we want to.

So for all I care, they could say that the Orcs are made of mushrooms and the Heroes are made of play-doh, that Mentor died in a shaving accident, that olde bretonnia was just a speck of dust on a blade of grass, and all the gold you found was fool's gold... and I don't have to accept it. If a friend asks me why I "like that silly franchise" I can always point out that nobody established those things for the first several odd decades in our territory and leave it at that!

So I do feel your pain, but the cure is easy. Just don't care about their missteps and ignore them. When push comes to shove, you "vote" with your wallet, and let the chips fall where they may. A politely worded letter to Hasbro/Avalon couldn't hurt though, they claimed they wanted to hear from us fans, and in some cases they have even listened (good on them).

[Pancho]

But we are not talking about Saga the Game (I’ve never even heard of it), we are talking about Heroquest.
A orc joining a Hero party in Heroquest is weird enough by itself. But a foppish, dashing orc bard that wields a rapier and sings with its hand on its heart is just plain stupid, given the source material.

My point Genius is that I found a work around for my table

any schmuck should be able to make up some story that fits their table

Okaaay. But it doesn’t fit HEROQUEST, which is the point I was making. You can force-fit Pokemon into your HQ game if it makes you happy, but it wouldn’t actually be Heroquest, and most fans wouldn’t appreciate it.

Why doesn’t it fit HeroQuest? Can you point out to me in the HeroQuest novels where there is a conflict? Or with the comic book? Are we looking at official quests being a problem? I haven’t seen anything indicating that it is “impossible”. There isn’t anywhere that I’ve seen that says that “Orc bards don’t exist”.

Sure, if we stick to an idea that HeroQuest is explicitly and only in WH Fantasy ... sure ... but that really stopped being a thing with Quest for the Elf, and the Frozen Waste Barbarian Quest. Which both had very “non-Warhammer fantasy” models as in game lore.

We all have our preconceived notions of what the state of the lore is. With the upcoming “Sprit Queen’s Torment” quest that we’ll see next fall I expect that we won’t have the lore issue that is frustrating you greatly right now.

I wouldn’t say that I’m frustrated by the Orc bard and some of the other silly stuff. Frankly there are bigger things to get worked up about; this week alone my country was forced into a lockdown that will be more brutal than the first, and events in the US have triggered what in my opinion will almost inevitably lead to a second civil war. Heroquest is very small potatoes in comparison.
That said, we are allowed to point and laugh at silly things. If you think we are being harsh now, wait until photos and video start to a appear of the orc bard actually performing on gaming tables.

I haven’t got time today to show you why the orc bard doesn’t fit Heroquest. It might be fun though at some point to go through all the existing material and compile an orc identity kit for you. Not Warhammer stuff, just Heroquest. If you like you can go through all the official stuff here at the Inn and do it yourself. I can assure you that orcs are consistently portrayed as evil, brutal, primitive, ugly, uncultured, uncouth, and violent creatures. Their language is guttural, awkward and unlovely, if their names are anything to go by. It’s possible that they might be able to sing, but nonsensical to think that they might have a rich enough language, aesthetic and cultural tapestry to have a back catalogue of songs that could inspire more advanced non-evil races in battle. It’s pure nonsense. It’s even more silly when you delve into what the historical figure of the bard represented in our own world, and the role they played in society. They were extremely intelligent people, with complex layers of understanding of art, music, history and society. It’s infantile to design a Heroquest orc whose role is to inspire other races that have fought orcs for thousands of years.

I don’t think the US expansions or the sticker album had any effect on the existing canon in regards to orcs? And the novels don’t help your position either; read the Anvil the dwarf chapter in The Fellowship of Four, in which Anvil encounters an orc warband and a hideous orc Witch/Shaman, which only reinforces what I am saying.

A wider point to make is that Heroquest is not slapstick. It’s a serious world, going by ALL the available material (again, not even having to use Warhammer). The slapstick orc bard with his pirate outfit, hand-on-heart stance and rapier (why a rapier goddamit, look at the muscularity!) obviously doesn’t fit in this regard either.
Of course, you can include whatever you like in your games. Heroquest is very customisable, it’s up to you. Just don’t down The Last Jedi fan boy route and try to con existing players.

[Cael Darkhollow]

I wouldn’t say that I’m frustrated by the Orc bard and some of the other silly stuff. Frankly there are bigger things to get worked up about; this week alone my country was forced into a lockdown that will be more brutal than the first, and events in the US have triggered what in my opinion will almost inevitably lead to a second civil war. Heroquest is very small potatoes in comparison.
That said, we are allowed to point and laugh at silly things. If you think we are being harsh now, wait until photos and video start to a appear of the orc bard actually performing on gaming tables.

I haven’t got time today to show you why the orc bard doesn’t fit Heroquest. It might be fun though at some point to go through all the existing material and compile an orc identity kit for you. Not Warhammer stuff, just Heroquest. If you like you can go through all the official stuff here at the Inn and do it yourself. I can assure you that orcs are consistently portrayed as evil, brutal, primitive, ugly, uncultured, uncouth, and violent creatures. Their language is guttural, awkward and unlovely, if their names are anything to go by. It’s possible that they might be able to sing, but nonsensical to think that they might have a rich enough language, aesthetic and cultural tapestry to have a back catalogue of songs that could inspire more advanced non-evil races in battle. It’s pure nonsense. It’s even more silly when you delve into what the historical figure of the bard represented in our own world, and the role they played in society. They were extremely intelligent people, with complex layers of understanding of art, music, history and society. It’s infantile to design a Heroquest orc whose role is to inspire other races that have fought orcs for thousands of years.

I don’t think the US expansions or the sticker album had any effect on the existing canon in regards to orcs? And the novels don’t help your position either; read the Anvil the dwarf chapter in The Fellowship of Four, in which Anvil encounters an orc warband and a hideous orc Witch/Shaman, which only reinforces what I am saying.

A wider point to make is that Heroquest is not slapstick. It’s a serious world, going by ALL the available material (again, not even having to use Warhammer). The slapstick orc bard with his pirate outfit, hand-on-heart stance and rapier (why a rapier goddamit, look at the muscularity!) obviously doesn’t fit in this regard either.
Of course, you can include whatever you like in your games. Heroquest is very customisable, it’s up to you. Just don’t down The Last Jedi fan boy route and try to con existing players.

Spot on Pancho. my thoughts exactly. Man I hate that orc bard. Completely wrong for HeroQuest in every aspect. That is one of the major things I am worried about with the new release, just how silly a retcon might make HeroQuest. I don't want to see WarcraftQuest or SagaQuest but a clear distinctive HeroQuest. [insert "You pay homage" line from Braveheart] hopefully Hasbro doesn't forget which game they are actually rereleasing and cram in a whole new game with a completely different identity under the name HeroQuest on us.

[Zenithfleet]

It's been reported elsewhere (on a Transformers fan site of all places) that Hasbro / WotC is planning a big D&D marketing push over the next couple of years. Which is why the Transformers fans were a bit disgruntled, since their own franchise is allegedly slated to be sidelined while D&D takes a turn in the spotlight.

If so, the new HeroQuest is probably intended as part of that push.

As I said earlier, the Orc bard does fit in with 'new-school' D&D-style Orcs. Saying he doesn't fit classic HeroQuest is 100% true... but this isn't classic HeroQuest. This is another universe's version. A universe where Orcs are different.

The Bard makes sense in context. I'm not a fan of the new context, but I do have to admit that.

The halfling demon Warlock hero would be just as out of place in classic HQ (burn the witch!)... but makes more sense in a D&Dified version of the game.

(Now that HQ has gone full D&D, I want to see a Planescape version of HeroQuest where the undead are friendly or at least treated like helpful robots, angels and devils hang out at the same bar, and the bartender is a giant frog. Instead of combat dice we could have philosophical debate dice for determining the nature of the multiverse. It'll sell a million. )

[lestodante]

I guess the Bard may be part of the questbook by Teos Abadia, because it was unlocked at the same goal (3 Millions), like the Dragon was for Joe Manganiello's questpack.
Also this image could be a confirmation.
So they probably wrote some background story to justify the orc bard in this scenario.

[Kurgan]

The Orcs have a proud legacy of music...

Orkz!!!

Orc drinking song

Funny Little Things*

Down, Down, to Goblin Town* (setting aside debates over the relations between Goblins and Orcs in Tolkien's lore)

chanting orcs

Where there's a Whip, there's a way!