HEROQUEST - COMPANION APP discussion

[Kurgan]

When you use the "monster attack weak" option, you must edit the character sheet and enter the attack, defense, body, and mind for each character at the beginning. Then, every time characters lose life or mind, you must update the sheet so the app knows, "in theory," who is the weakest or who has the fewest hit points left.

At least last time I tested it, they go after the characters with the lowest current body points. So they see no difference between a mercenary that has full health (2 BP) vs. a Barbarian who is down to his last 2 BP out of 8 (or 10)... now how would the monster determine who to attack if both characters were within the same range of the monster? That I'm not sure... for all I know that might even cause it to crash!

[manamail]

When you use the "monster attack weak" option, you must edit the character sheet and enter the attack, defense, body, and mind for each character at the beginning. Then, every time characters lose life or mind, you must update the sheet so the app knows, "in theory," who is the weakest or who has the fewest hit points left.

At least last time I tested it, they go after the characters with the lowest current body points. So they see no difference between a mercenary that has full health (2 BP) vs. a Barbarian who is down to his last 2 BP out of 8 (or 10)... now how would the monster determine who to attack if both characters were within the same range of the monster? That I'm not sure... for all I know that might even cause it to crash!

Yes, the option is very poorly implemented, but it's the only thing that can be done to make the app play "relatively intelligently". It should be patched.

[Parzival]

I disagree. A simple solution would be to make different monsters “attracted” to different heroes/hero types in a descending order

Big, bulky monsters (orcs, abominations) go after big, bulky foes:
Barbarian, Knight, Dwarf, Monk, Elf, Bard, Mercenary, Druid, Rogue, Warlock, Wizard, in that order of preference OR whichever can be reached in the current move, also in order of preference.
Sneaky monsters (goblins, spellcasters) seek foes in reverse of the above order— a goblin has no desire to charge into battle against a muscle-bound Barbarian!
Standard undead (skeletons, zombies, mummies) attack closest hero, regardless of type.
Smart monsters (Dread Warriors, Witch Hand, Gargoyles, Dragons) and Boss monsters hit spellcasters if possible, in order as follows: Wizard, Warlock, Druid, Bard, and then go by bulk, Barbarian, Knight, Dwarf, Elf, etc…

No need for any tracking of BP or MP or armor or weapons or any other item (though a simple artifact requirement can be built into the quest— as “All undead in this quest are attracted to the wearer of Rabbit Boots, ‘cause they’re so spiffy-looking when shuffling down a dark hallway. Please select the hero who wears the Rabbit Boots, if any.”)

So the targeting routine checks against the preference order for the monster, then for what targets are present, then by distance/proximity, then if equal a simple random choice, et voila— a smarter Zargon than either method currently in place. (I could code this in BASIC easily— Python certainly can handle it.)

Really, how are the monsters supposed to know what the current BP and MP state of the heroes are? Granted, at a table the Zargon player probably knows— though the rules don’t give him a tracking chart, or instructions to keep track of ANY Hero stats, so it’s a meta move on his part to do so. But as written, it’s pretty much an unstated honor code that the players track their damage, spells, and supplies, as well as any alterations to their other stats, and inform Zargon when BP or MP reaches 0 and the Hero kicks the proverbial container.

[Kurgan]

Zargon's goal being to kill the heroes, he should maximize attacks against the heroes at their weakest point. So decide between lowest defense and lowest BP, but also consider greatest threat in terms of strength of attacks, and number of healing potions left.

Yes, you can say the individual monsters are dumb, they don't know all the stratagems of the heroes, but Zargon is in control of them. He knows all, just as the players controlling the heroes know all details of what is on their friends' character sheets.

[Parzival]

Zargon's goal being to kill the heroes, he should maximize attacks against the heroes at their weakest point. So decide between lowest defense and lowest BP, but also consider greatest threat in terms of strength of attacks, and number of healing potions left.

Yes, you can say the individual monsters are dumb, they don't know all the stratagems of the heroes, but Zargon is in control of them. He knows all, just as the players controlling the heroes know all details of what is on their friends' character sheets.

Again, that’s assumed. Yes, it’s allowed (or at least not forbidden), but no, the rules do not state that Zargon “knows all,” or that any player knows anything on another player’s character sheet. One could just as easily play it as if all such information was secret. But in general I suspect that open information is the basis of the game (aside from quest secrets), so the Zargon player can know what the conditions of the heroes are, and will therefore likely act accordingly.

But in any case, the App Zargon certainly doesn’t know all, and often acts as if it doesn’t know much. A basic D&D tactics approach— “Kill the spell caster!”— would at least be more intelligent than what it does now!

[Parzival]

And now I’ve hit a major bug that completely prevents one quest series from being followed to the end.

In Spirit Queen’s Torment: The Tower of Air, at one point the App can be triggered to randomly move a hero. Once it does so, however, the game locks up. You can’t do any further actions with the hero, but also can’t end his move or move on to another hero. All of those controls become completely dead. You can access the setting controls, but that’s it. So it ends all progress in the quest, and since you can’t continue to the next quest without completing the first one… That’s all folks!

As far as I can tell, the only way around this is to lie to the App about what roll result you get when the triggering effect occurs.

Updated my review of the App on the App Store, but who knows if someone will read it and take steps to make corrections.

[Kurgan]

You should also report it in the Avalon Hill discord and @WanderingMonster to pass along the bug report!

[manamail]

You should also report it in the Avalon Hill discord and @WanderingMonster to pass along the bug report!

How can I report bugs on the Avalon Hill Discord? I've never used Discord before, so I open the page, sign up with my phone, and log into Avalon Hill, but I don't know where to post because I don't see any place to report bugs.

[Kurgan]

Zargon's goal being to kill the heroes, he should maximize attacks against the heroes at their weakest point. So decide between lowest defense and lowest BP, but also consider greatest threat in terms of strength of attacks, and number of healing potions left.

Yes, you can say the individual monsters are dumb, they don't know all the stratagems of the heroes, but Zargon is in control of them. He knows all, just as the players controlling the heroes know all details of what is on their friends' character sheets.

Again, that’s assumed. Yes, it’s allowed (or at least not forbidden), but no, the rules do not state that Zargon “knows all,” or that any player knows anything on another player’s character sheet. One could just as easily play it as if all such information was secret. But in general I suspect that open information is the basis of the game (aside from quest secrets), so the Zargon player can know what the conditions of the heroes are, and will therefore likely act accordingly.

But in any case, the App Zargon certainly doesn’t know all, and often acts as if it doesn’t know much. A basic D&D tactics approach— “Kill the spell caster!”— would at least be more intelligent than what it does now!

There's no rule in HeroQuest that says (perhaps as in RPGs, I understand Gloomhaven works this way) that the player can only play based on what the character would plausible know, or that Zargon's Orc for example, only knows what the Orc would know. It doesn't literally say "Zargon knows all" but he's absolutely allowed to strategize with his monsters just as the heroes are allowed to strategize among themselves as if they were one hive mind and know they're playing within a finite playing space.

The way the App works I understand might be the kind of thing some players of some other games are used to... that monsters are supposed to dumbly and automatically just plod ahead towards the nearest hero and attack, every time. It's only a basic simulation. A real human Zargon has much more freedom to do what he likes. He can make his monsters, dumb, smart, or any combination of things. He's not even restricted by the rules... he can remix the quest to his liking and resolve disputes. He's also allowed to modify the game to his liking. Not all of this is spelled out in the rule book, but the designers have stated repeatedly they support this, and at the very least Zargon is authorized to resolve issues with imagination and experience (as it says in many expansion booklets and some online supplements) not just to remix a quest that is being replayed after failure.

At the end of the day I guess there's no "wrong" way to play the monsters in terms of them needing to act only independently or only together as a group, instead there is flexibility how Zargon conducts things, just as if the heroes want to handicap themselves (for "realism"?) by not sharing information with one another and playing as if their characters can only see each other. It's like how the rules don't assert Zargon must hold back and pull his punches to avoid killing the heroes.

Such things are obviously much more challenging to simulate in a Unity based App with a small team that the Avalon Hill guys (perhaps 2 of them) are working on. I just wish that the App was flexible/powerful enough to simulate the way a LOT of Zargon players actually play. I could imagine them adding much more sliders to the settings menu to create different "personalities" of GM, maybe to help create that illusion for those who really want to use the App instead of playing the traditional way.

[HispaZargon]

User Manamail from Telegram Spanish Fans Community of HeroQuest has passed me the following collection of important bugs he has detected in the Official App of HeroQuest.

I already noticed them to Avalon HIll media contacts in their official Discord channel to see if they could fix them in the app:

1.- When you enable the "monsters attack weak" option, if the monsters can't attack the heroes that turn, they remain stationary. This causes some quests in which monsters appear on the side of the board or must be activated by performing an action to ruin the Quest (such as in the quest to rescue Sir Ragnar). If you disable the option, the monsters move normally, but with the option enabled (which is very necessary for the AI to behave correctly) the monsters don't activate if they can't attack that turn.

2.- In quest "Tower of Air" from Spirit Queen's Torment expansion, when a Hero is in a corridor, they must roll a combat die. If they roll a skull, the app randomly moves a Hero. However, once they do, the app goes crazy. You can't kill enemies, and when you switch Heroes, the app randomly chooses the hero you moved and places them anywhere on the board, even passing through walls. It ends all progress in the Quest, and since you can't continue to the next Quest without completing the first one, the game becomes unplayable and you can't advance. Also, and almost worse, when the gargoyle uses its burst attack, the app simply freezes and crashes.

3.- In Prophecy of Telor expansion, Quest 6, "The Ruins of Gilgarreth's Temple", is a bit unplayable. Heroes cannot move beyond the starting space. The mission cannot be played directly in any way since it crashes when the first hero steps on the first square and the app freezes.

4.- Monsters that attack through walls: Some ranged monsters (Skeleton/Orc/Goblin/Elf Archers) and some diagonal attack monsters (the Advanced Skeleton, the evil Halberdiers in Frozen Horror, the Assassins in Rise of the Dread Moon), or any large monster like a Giant Wolf, can sometimes shoot or attack heroes standing on the other side of a wall (and not an open door).

5.- The Elf's Twisted Wood spell (from The Mage of the Mirror expansion) according to the card disables wooden weapons (bows, crossbows, etc.), but in the app it is programmed incorrectly as it affects ALL monsters and disables their attacks. This applies to both metal and Mummies, who look to don't carry weapons. If you cast Twisted Wood spell on a Mummy, it loses 1 attack die if it's an unarmed monster. The same applies to monsters wielding metal weapons.

6.- In Rise of the Dread Moon expansion, questbook rules state that disguises disappear when a spell is cast (which also applies to Spell Scrolls). Furthermore, wearing armor other than helmets and bracers (cloaks aren't considered armor) breaks the disguise. However, the application goes further and includes POTIONS (just a few: Potion of Vision, Airwalk, and Wolfsbane Potion), magical treasures (such as the Elven Cloak of Passage), or artifacts (Ring of Return, Vanishing Powder, Rod of Telekinesis, Bone Wand, and Cloak of Shadows), in addition to various pieces of equipment (Caltrops and Smoke Bombs) that also break the disguise.

7.- In Quest 7 of the base game (The Lost Wizard), if you drink the purple liquid, the hero becomes stone and cannot move for the remainder of the Quest. The hero should return to normal after 5 turns, so the Quest must be aborted.

8.- In Quest 9 of Kellar's Keep, when the shapeshifter stops changing, his figure does not retreat and remains paralyzed in the app. If he is facing the door to the room when this happens, the Heroes can become permanently trapped inside.

9.- In Quests 7 and 9 of Return of the Witch Lord, Skulmar and Kessandria can pass through the Heroes when they are fleeing, so you cannot try to block their path.

10.- In Quest 6 of the Spirit Queen's Torment, the Gargoyles only move and resume their actions if a Hero comes within two squares. According to the quest instructions, Gargoyles activate when a hero is within two squares of them, but once activated, they should move normally. However, in the app, once activated, if you move more than two squares away, they become immobile again.

11.- Feature "Undo" should be added for Mercenary deaths: A much-needed fix was added a few versions ago: if a Hero entered solid rock (using Rock Passage, Elven Cloak of Passage, or Cloak of Shadows), but the player accidentally lifted their finger from the touchscreen (removing the cursor too early), even though they didn't intend to end their move there and had one move left to get to safety, normally that player would die and be eliminated from the board, and the Quest would be forced to restart. However, "Undo" (or "back" or "cancel") was added so that, in these cases, a simple mistake would be fixed and the Quest could continue if, in fact, the Hero didn't intend to kill himself that way. Unfortunately, Mercenaries don't have this ability. A hero could cast Rock Passage on a Mercenary to send him through a wall, and if the player moved their finger from the screen, the Mercenary would die and be lost forever. I think an "Undo" function would be necessary for all types of mercenaries and allies.