HEROQUEST - COMPANION APP discussion

[Kurgan]

I really think it's cool that you can use the App in other ways (besides how it was explicitly intended) because of that flexibility. See more ideas here for using extra heroes via the App

For instance on Stream we've used the App in place of the physical board entirely for an "all heroes" party. I mean the stream just had us showing the App screen itself as the game.

Yes, we did have to still do some things ourselves, so we had a little side screen where I'd draw from the Treasure Deck. We still had to do the hero rolls and the monster defense rolls. But we could keep track of everything else with pencil & paper (assuming the players at home didn't have the equivalent cards ready to hand). One person just moves everything (which is how you control the app anyway) but just has the other players tell them what to do with each character that person is assigned to. I suppose with remote players if you really all trust each other you could not only share your screen but "give control" and just make sure it's on the honor system so people only move what they're allowed to move (similar to how in TableTop Simulator you could in theory grab someone else's cards or dice but you'd just be a nice person and only touch your own assets!).

So it doesn't really replace the board game entirely... at minimum you'd want a set of combat dice (you could get by never rolling to move, if you wanted, otherwise some regular D6's too), a Treasure Deck, pencil & paper, and some reference to the Armory/Equipment deck and Alchemist Shops (or Alchemist Deck) references for shopping phases. Many cards are not referenced with specifics in the App (see especially most any Equipment, many Artifacts especially those that heal (or the Elixir of Life!), healing spells/skills and all of the Styles for the Monk and the skills for the Rogue, Knight, Berserker, and Explorer though most of those pop up as automatic prompts when you're in the right situation... other than the Rogue whose skills are always active).

The biggest limitation of the App at the end of the day is that it doesn't let you remix quests, and you have to wait for them to add the quests they do let you play. You can get creative and work around a lot of other things.

I only wish a few simple things could be added to more easily facilitate this "homebrew" use of the App, like allowing the Mercenaries to "Use Special" (at the very least adding this for the Elven mercs in ROTDM would be more accurate to the quest booklet as written) and allow non-hero allies to be "renamed" in their profiles (just you could more easily pretend they were additional heroes or other proxies).

There already exist some allies that can "Use Special" just like heroes... see Sir Ragnar in the GS, and the Orc Allies in SQT. But you can't just spawn these guys into any quest, so that would be a nice feature to add!

Not being able to place monsters mid-quest kind of sucks but you can at least force a "Wandering Monster" to appear (and even make two at once by toggling on "double wandering monsters" in the settings, though that requires you to save and exit and come back to change it back for the next instance). The only monsters you can move are Skeletons, if you use the Bone Wand (assuming it doesn't glitch up and give you permanent control of those skeletons, when it's only supposed to be for one turn... I think this glitch may have happened because the Hearthkin Horn spawns "permanently" friendly skeletons).

Mercenaries, when they die, stay dead, and you don't get an automatic "undo" option like you do when a hero dies. So if you accidentally kill them off they're gone. One way to mitigate this problem is to just hire the maximum number of mercenaries at the start of the quest, and just leave them all at the door except the ones you actually need at the moment. A "dead" mercenary who should actually have had a second chance, survived, or for a hero that was accidentally removed (or that the Elixir of Life should have brought back mid-quest) could be simulated by moving one of the unusued (but hired) mercenaries back in from the entrance door or spiral staircase. Sadly only a minority of quests allow mercenary hires (within MOTM, FH, ROTDM, ATOH) and even fewer use Animal companions (ATOH, JoD, and the pulse quest "Into the Northlands") but you can use the Fangwarden Amulet to summon a Raptor or the Hearthkin Horn to summon skeletons to simulate mercenaries or animal companions in other places.

Unfortunately the animal companions/mercenaries are pretty limited. They can't use special (so can't even use Artifacts/Treasure/Equipment to simulate spells) and can't search (except Scouts with regard to traps & disarming too) but at least they can open doors. The nice thing is though they can have spells (or other "use specials that aren't Elf exclusive) cast UPON them if they are (usually) within LOS.

It would seem like a minor nightmare to add the various "Incapacitated" rules from JoD as options into the App (whether "story" or "heroic") but that could be a way to make the game somewhat easier overall? Maybe they figured the App's limitations make it "easy enough" for the Heroes as it is? (unless you toggle on all of those settings bonuses for the monsters!).

To see what the Elven Mercenaries should be like, take a look at the Orc Allies within SQT (Quests 3-5) or Sir Ragnar (GS Quest 2; although he has no attack stat).

[Kurgan]

Revisiting the "fog of war" in the App which uses different colors (list current as of v5.1):

GS, KK, ROTWL, SQT, JoD, as well as New Beginnings and Forsaken Tunnels of Xor Xel: GREEN.
FH, as well as Into the Northlands: BLUE.
MOTM, ROTDM: PINK/PURPLE.
ATOH: ORANGE.
PoT: RED.

I am guessing when Rogar's Hall is finally (hopefully) added it will have green fog, and I would expect the same of CoPD. WoM is anyone's guess...

But here comes the odd part, you'd expect that "KnightFall" intended as a prequel to ROTDM would share that PINK/PURPLE fog right? But instead it's RED (like PoT)!

Maybe they were thinking you play PoT before ROTDM and play KnightFall in between? But according to the "official" order of quests that's not so... (See Elvyler's list... New Beginnings, Rogar's Hall, GS/FL, Forsaken Tunnels of Xor Xel, KK, THEN PoT, SQT, ROTWL, ATOH, Into the Northlands, FH, MOTM, THEN Knightfall, ROTDM, JoD, CoPD...).

Interesting audio stuff:
The generic kind of "ambience" music changes to something more action oriented for boss battles, as well as during the "tournaments" Quests of ATOH. It's replaced by some jungle ambience within JoD.

Noticed a small little errata... I don't always check the images displayed in the app with the various items, but the Fangwarden Amulet shows the generic art of a "Spell Scroll." It's the only inaccurate one under the "Use Special" items.

[manamail]

The fact that so much is left to the "honor system" for the app makes it a little more flexible than one might first imagine.?

what is the app's honor system?.

[Parzival]

The fact that so much is left to the "honor system" for the app makes it a little more flexible than one might first imagine.?

what is the app's honor system?.

You roll your actual physical dice for movement, trap effects, disarming/jumping traps, special quest events, and Hero attacks, Hero defense, and monster defense, and record the results or provide them to the App. You also draw physical Treasure cards and record the result or, if a wandering monster, report that fact to the App (so it can trigger a monster appearance and Zargon’s turn). So you can conceivably make up any result you want and the App won’t question it.
And, yes, on occasion I have done this when something has become tedious or I had mistakenly clicked the wrong spot/icon with my clumsy, thick fingers. “No, I wanted to disarm the trap, not trigger it, you doofus machine! Fine— I rolled a white shield! No damage!”
It’s also possible for a single Hero to take multiple actions in a turn, which I have accidentally done, or again done intentionally when the whole thing doesn’t immediately affect actual play (no monsters in sight, the action won’t trigger a monster, and I’d burn through all the Heroes’ turns to do it for the same result).

Honestly, it’s not a great app for playing a challenging game. But it is a good way to experience a quest as a player before running it as Zargon for your game buddies— which is what I use it for.

[Kurgan]

The fact that so much is left to the "honor system" for the app makes it a little more flexible than one might first imagine.?

what is the app's honor system?.

Exactly, when the App tells you to do something, but you don't do it... or when it doesn't force you to do something (or doesn't track something) but you do so anyway because of the system you're using at your physical table (or by common agreement of your players).

It's like when you're reading a Choose your Own Adventure book and you get to a page that says you died, the End. Maybe you have some personal rule that you have 3 lives or something, so you can go back to your last bookmark and try again. Yet it's not actually written in the book to play that way and nobody is forcing you.

[manamail]

Thank you very much Parzival and Kurgan.

And another question. I have the "Monster attack weak" option enabled in the app, but I don't know why they always go for the dwarf, who also wears the Borin armor and has the most defenses. If the barbarian and the mage are alone, they usually attack the mage, but if the dwarf is also in the room, they always go for him, ignoring the other characters. Does this happen to you too? Is there anything I missed?

Thank you very much, and best regards.

[Parzival]

I didn’t know that toggle existed. Would probably change my game outcomes considerably! But then, I always act to shield the Wizard, even if I *know* the monsters are more likely to attack the Barbarian.

As to why your experience is that the app targets the Dwarf, maybe it doesn’t like short guys. Okay, I kid. It could be it’s based on relative combat strength:

Base character stats may influence it:
B= A3, D2, B8, M2 (Total All Stats=15)
D= A2, D2, B7, M3 (TAS=14)
E= A2, D2, B6, M4 (TAS=14) Has 3 spells. Maybe the 3 spells give a +1 to the TAS 15?
W= A1, D2, B4, M6 (TAS=13) Has 9 spells. So that would be +3 to the TAS, for TAS 16? Or just +2 to tie it with B and E?
And it goes for the lowest TAS as being “Weak”?

The app won’t consider what artifacts or items the character has, as it doesn’t know about any of these. That’s just info on your character sheets. As far as I can tell, the app tracks nothing about the characters’ current stats or items or abilities except for ones it explicitly asks for at the start of a quest (as “Who carries the Talisman of Lord?”) It won’t even track what spells a hero has cast. Or, for that matter, Body Points or Mind Points. All of that is on you to record and report, if you even can. It will track specific, necessary, in quest only items (this happens in SQT), but that’s it.

So it may just be a factor of the programmers deciding where heroes are on a weakness scale, and the Dwarf got moved above the Wizard for some reason; it might just be its lack of any special abilities aside from trap disarming, combined with ho-hum base combat abilities. So my TAS suggestion may not be far off the mark.

[SirRick]

Thank you very much Parzival and Kurgan.

And another question. I have the "Monster attack weak" option enabled in the app, but I don't know why they always go for the dwarf, who also wears the Borin armor and has the most defenses. If the barbarian and the mage are alone, they usually attack the mage, but if the dwarf is also in the room, they always go for him, ignoring the other characters. Does this happen to you too? Is there anything I missed?

Thank you very much, and best regards.

That seems odd, but in my experience when that option is enabled they always go after the Wizard at all costs. I used the standard Barbarian, Dwarf, Elf, and Wizard party order. They would only attack someone else if they could not reach the Wizard. The next target of choice was the Elf, then the Dwarf. The only time the Barbarian got attacked was when he was the only hero in reach. My guess is it targets according to party order combined with max BP. There may be other variables concerned. You could try changing the party order to see if their behavior changes. Maybe we can determine how it works under different circumstances.

The monsters attack weak option though is messed up and a number of quests get wrecked if you use it. If all your heroes are out of reach from monsters, they will not move. Any quests with monsters that appear and chase heroes, they will just stand at the spawn point and not move if no heroes are nearby.

[manamail]

I didn’t know that toggle existed. Would probably change my game outcomes considerably! But then, I always act to shield the Wizard, even if I *know* the monsters are more likely to attack the Barbarian.

As to why your experience is that the app targets the Dwarf, maybe it doesn’t like short guys. Okay, I kid. It could be it’s based on relative combat strength:

Base character stats may influence it:
B= A3, D2, B8, M2 (Total All Stats=15)
D= A2, D2, B7, M3 (TAS=14)
E= A2, D2, B6, M4 (TAS=14) Has 3 spells. Maybe the 3 spells give a +1 to the TAS 15?
W= A1, D2, B4, M6 (TAS=13) Has 9 spells. So that would be +3 to the TAS, for TAS 16? Or just +2 to tie it with B and E?
And it goes for the lowest TAS as being “Weak”?

The app won’t consider what artifacts or items the character has, as it doesn’t know about any of these. That’s just info on your character sheets. As far as I can tell, the app tracks nothing about the characters’ current stats or items or abilities except for ones it explicitly asks for at the start of a quest (as “Who carries the Talisman of Lord?”) It won’t even track what spells a hero has cast. Or, for that matter, Body Points or Mind Points. All of that is on you to record and report, if you even can. It will track specific, necessary, in quest only items (this happens in SQT), but that’s it.

So it may just be a factor of the programmers deciding where heroes are on a weakness scale, and the Dwarf got moved above the Wizard for some reason; it might just be its lack of any special abilities aside from trap disarming, combined with ho-hum base combat abilities. So my TAS suggestion may not be far off the mark.

When you use the "monster attack weak" option, you must edit the character sheet and enter the attack, defense, body, and mind for each character at the beginning. Then, every time characters lose life or mind, you must update the sheet so the app knows, "in theory," who is the weakest or who has the fewest hit points left.

[manamail]

Thank you very much Parzival and Kurgan.

And another question. I have the "Monster attack weak" option enabled in the app, but I don't know why they always go for the dwarf, who also wears the Borin armor and has the most defenses. If the barbarian and the mage are alone, they usually attack the mage, but if the dwarf is also in the room, they always go for him, ignoring the other characters. Does this happen to you too? Is there anything I missed?

Thank you very much, and best regards.

That seems odd, but in my experience when that option is enabled they always go after the Wizard at all costs. I used the standard Barbarian, Dwarf, Elf, and Wizard party order. They would only attack someone else if they could not reach the Wizard. The next target of choice was the Elf, then the Dwarf. The only time the Barbarian got attacked was when he was the only hero in reach. My guess is it targets according to party order combined with max BP. There may be other variables concerned. You could try changing the party order to see if their behavior changes. Maybe we can determine how it works under different circumstances.

The monsters attack weak option though is messed up and a number of quests get wrecked if you use it. If all your heroes are out of reach from monsters, they will not move. Any quests with monsters that appear and chase heroes, they will just stand at the spawn point and not move if no heroes are nearby.

My team order is Barbarian, Dwarf, Mage, and Elf. I'm going to try switching to Barbarian, Elf, Mage, and Dwarf to see if that works correctly. Regarding "If all your heroes are out of reach from monsters, they will not move. In any quests with monsters that appear and chase heroes, they will just stand at the spawn point and not move if no heroes are nearby." If you see that in a quest the monsters do not move because they have to chase the characters, you could go into options and disable the option at that time, right? I don't know if that would solve the problem.