WIZARDS OF MORCAR discussion

[LucaRocks]

Nice breakdown! I went back through the spells as well and your observations are spot on.

Personally, I would rather have the clunker spells be replaced by something a bit stronger but still keeping them different that the game system ones. Replacing them with the game system spells would be effective, no doubt. But brand new spells would make each WOM unique. Plus, we could always add the game spells to them anyway in addition to their own. So for example, maybe summon mummies could summon 4 mummies without needing to roll. That would make it stronger and keep it different from summon undead. Same with summon skeleton. Have like 5 of them appear at once or something. And I would say that a version of reanimation that turns all dead monsters in the room to zombies would be appropiate and cool.

I am sort of hoping we get a couple variants of known monster types with this expansion to take advantage of the specialized wizards.

I would also rename some of the spells that have similar names as other ones. Maybe "Terrorize" instead of "Fear" and so on. I do feel you have a great idea with having more spells deal with MP. I really like your version of death bolt also.

[Kurgan]

As far as the name Morcar (they should retain the original title, for nostalgia sake of course), I take it as simply another name for Zargon. If they were to invent some storyline to "explain" why there is a different name, that's fine, but hopefully it's not unnecessarily silly or convoluted. There's no need to make it a place name or the name of a Wizard Order. If they want to introduce some mystery and just have it end up being Zargon "all along" that's okay. What I hope they don't do is introduce a knockoff Zargon you never heard of before that you meet and defeat within this quest book, like a special guest villain (Zargon had an equal or rival we never heard of?). Maybe they simply won't address it at all (which is fine) and it's just a title. Whatever they do, hopefully it's something they've researched to see if fans will like it (vs. roll their eyes at).

[LucaRocks]

I'd like Morcar to be his own dude that Zargon subcontracts to out of necessity. Would be cool to add a secondary big bad ala the good ole Witch Lord.

Also, didn't a rumor say you fight Zargon at the end of this? Could actually be a fight against Morcar and the leaker thought it was Zargon.

Or we could just end up with a Dr. Wily style "it was me all along!" scenario lol

[Thrasher79]

Hello
I don't think the spells are so bad. The easiest way to make the mages stronger would be to allow them to cast 2 spells per turn. This could simply be solved with a potion. Some spells would then be much stronger, especially in combination.
I myself designed 2 new spells for our group, so that each mage now has 8 spells.

Here is the list of the "new" spells:
Grawshak:
1. Headbutt
The shaman gives the wizard a magical headbutt. Everyone throws as many KW as he has intelligence points. Whoever throws the most skulls counts. If the Shaman draws or wins, the Wizard takes 1 PPP damage and cannot cast spells in the next turn.
Remove after use.
2. Hand of Gork
The shaman's arms are surrounded by glowing ribbons of power. A fist appears and attacks one of the heroes. The hit person must throw 2 KW. For each skull he has to subtract 1 PPP.
Remove after use.

Zanwrath:
1. Soul drain
The magician attacks one of the heroes with a storm of dark magic. Each of the two throws as many KW as he has intelligence points. Whoever throws the most skulls counts. In the event of a draw or a victory of the mage, he withdraws 3 PPP from the hero and may count this PPP to it.
Remove after use.
2. Curse of Zanwrath
The magician causes cuts on the body of a hero. He can do nothing in the next round except defend himself.
Remove after use.

Boroush:
1. Blades Wind
The magician speaks a magical formula that creates a storm of cutting blades. The blades attack a hero in the field of view with 6 KW. The latter defends as usual.
Remove after use.
2. Lava Storm
With a majestic movement, Boroush creates a storm of balls of molten lava. There are 4 balls that attack the warriors with 2 KW each. For each skull, the hit loses 1 PPP without being able to defend himself.
Remove after use.

Fanraxh:
1. Winds of Death
An icy wind with the smell of death blows through the room. Each hero in the room throws 1 KW. With a skull, he can do nothing in the next round except defend himself and take potions.
Remove after use.
2. Death Knight
The magician mumbles an ominous-sounding formula. In the next moment, a huge skeleton warrior appears in the room out of nowhere. He immediately attacks one of the heroes with 5 KW. The victim defends himself as usual. After the attack, the warrior disappears as quickly as he appeared.
Remove after use.

Greetings Thrasher79

[Kurgan]

I don't have an issue with the bad guy spells. I see the pattern is that AH doesn't like to have two items that have the same name but different function (they don't mind having two identical function items with different names, see Heal Body/Water of Healing/Life Force).

I prefer that the evil wizards have their own spells rather than just swapping in GS spells. Could they do that? Sure. Here are my comments...

So while I don't have a problem with classic items having the classic names, I would not be shocked at all if they changed the names of various spells, even though there is little chance of confusing them.

Some could theorize that the reason spells are weaker in vintage/legacy WOM is because they were built for the EU rules (where monsters generally have 1 BP, though there are also no death saves, no selling back items for half price, etc). Even so I like the uniqueness... the fact that each evil sorcerer has six of his own spells both times you encounter him.

High Mage's spells are nice though one of the artworks for the Stormmaster depicts the High Mage on them (AH needs to decide if these spells are generic or only ever intended for the specific bad guy... making them all generic Dread Spells could open things up a little more for homebrewers and the questbook would still determine a fixed set of spells for each encounter in the campaign).

"DISPELL" I guess is a chance for them to change the name because there's already a Dispell in MOTM and there is a good guy version in this same pack. Drain? Cancel Magic? Counter magic? Steal Magic? Waste Magic? Sans Spell? Lots of possibilities here. Dispell is also used in the "lost" Wizard quest pack, so they will want to keep some other examples on hand if they are going to keep the names unique.

RUST would be changed to what... Corrosion? Destruction? Ruination? Dissolve? Acid? It still destroys equipment, making it much more powerful since you could use it to zap a suit of armor, shield, or battle axe, Bracers (even the Warlock's Wand!). Actually we should remember that in the AH version of things, Equipment can also be POTIONS (maybe they were thinking of this very thing when they released Jungles of Delthrak and converted the Alchemist Shop potions into "Alchemy" cards instead??). It could be very nasty to destroy someone's Holy Water (not that it bothers the High Mage, but for that future battle with the Necromancer...).

This Rust wouldn't work against Artifacts (only "Equipment"), so the Wizard's Staff/Cloak would be protected. Calling it "Rust" of course may confuse some modern players thinking "well why would it work on something that isn't explicitly metal?" I think making it so that it ONLY affected metal objects would be silly, because then it becomes exactly like the game system rust (which only works on METAL swords and METAL helmets, all other equipments lack the word "METAL" on the card) making it redundant. And before anyone says it, no there's no overlap here. They've already established that you don't need a card necessarily for each instance of a monster spell (though they did kind of require it within ATOH remake). Of course "Twist Wood" in the MOTM pack isn't thoroughly explained (the term "wood" isn't used much on cards, and you could theorize practically ever piece of equipment has some wood on it, even swords, at least historically, tended to have wooden handles... and yes you could still wield them without though they'd be a lot less comfortable/ergonomic unless you fashioned a new one on the spot say out of stripes of leather, rope, etc).

FEAR would change to Terror? Dread? Trance? It's different than GS Fear, and I like its unique effect.

ESCAPE I like that it isn't required to have a location on the map, the sorcerer gets to choose. Call it TELEPORT or VANISH something like that, if you must.

CALL SKELETON and SUMMON MUMMY seem weaker than Summon Undead, but they also call for specific monsters rather than random. Call Skeleton sounds a bit goofy, you could maybe say Summon Skeletons. Unlike the Summon greenskin type spells, these indicate a new monster is placed on the board, not teleporting one from somewhere else to the summoner's side. The nice thing about these spells is that the monster gets to move and attack immediately, which is not the case with the GS Summon Undead, although it will almost always create a stronger one-time group of enemies (4-6 BP vs 2 BP of monsters). I guess you could make them advanced skeletons that can attack diagonally?
You could argue that the Necromancer has 4 attack dice, so it makes less sense for him to waste his action summoning two skeletons that only attack with 2 dice each, but you could also point out that these two monsters could also block the path of heroes attacking him and could be used to attack separate targets at once (he can only attack one hero per turn otherwise). Also if the Skeletons are not killed immediately, he could add the mummy later (or in reverse order) and thus have three minions to help him fight vs. just attacking on his own. Yes, Summon Undead is stronger in a single usage in theory (it's likely the heroes will use up their entire round wiping out his minions instead of attacking the Necromancer)

RAISE DEAD doesn't say it only works on non-undead monsters. This can be used on a Hero's turn, so a killed skeleton can even be replaced with a fresh skeleton!
I love this spell. Make it an advanced skeleton is perhaps the only possible tweak I'd advocate for.

SKULLS OF DOOM and DEATHBOLT are fine as is.

For the Shaman, I LOVE SUMMON GOBLINS, no changes are needed. This one is great because it can teleport existing goblins OR it can generate new ones (the "on or off the board" also implies it could be any combination). Could Zargon "run out" of monsters using this? In theory depending upon map placement. The only weakness is if some of them were teleported and had already attacked... but they get to move and attack immediately otherwise. GS Summon Orcs doesn't say the Orcs can move and attack immediately only that they appear to surround and protect the caster.

SUMMON ORCS would probably need to be changed. Yes, you could just replace it with GS Summon Orcs I suppose, which would give 4-6 Orcs... however once again the Shaman version has these two Orcs that get to move and attack immediately (unlike the NA GS version). The way this vintage card is written is a little strange now that I look at it. I was thinking it was meant to be the same as "SUMMON GOBLINS"... you can place two new orcs (or else teleport them to within LOS of the spell caster). "Take" seems a little vague. It probably doesn't mean that two Orcs just get to move and attack... because it specifically says they can't do so if they've already moved/attacked this turn... so it's not like giving EXTRA turns to existing Orcs. But why change the wording? Of course Morcar will move any Orcs he happens to have on the board during his turn, why would he not? This one could be rewritten to be like the SUMMON GOBLINS and it would be a worthwhile spell. Maybe it could be changed to RALLY ORCS or ORC GUARDS, (ORC AMBUSH? ORC ASSASSINS?) or something like that.

The rest of the Shaman spells are fine, but maybe the SHARPEN BLADES could be modified to include the spellcaster himself (he's an Orc) but say Orcs under his control or something like that so someone doesn't find a loophole where the Orc Bard gets a bonus from this to use against him (though that would be funny). If you changed it to green monsters that would be a boost, but not sure it's necessary. Same with SHIELD OF PROTECTION. I kind of like that it says Orcs and not goblins or Fimir (Abominations) for these spells. He's an Orc with a specialty in Orcs, that's thematic, but if you were just looking for ways to make him stronger I mean...

Stormmaster's LIGHTNING BOLT is different of course... it uses the tile and hits with 3 dice but is able to be defended against, instead of invisible with 2 automatic damage, and it has limited range (only 6 squares are affected). The only other necessary tweak to the Stormmaster is Thieving Wind which should say the equipment is discarded rather than the card since its not necessary that the Hero player has the card. "Choosing at random" is a bit trickier without a deck of cards to shuffle and choose, but there are other ways left to the whim of Morcar/Zargon.


To beef up the evil wizards generally you could also allow them to draw a random Dread spell to go with their six for the second encounter maybe, or something like that. Or maybe each would be assigned one, like give Summon Orcs to the Shaman and Summon Undead to the Necromancer, something like that? With the ATOH remake I felt like they should have beefed up the evil sorcerer body points. Here they wouldn't have to really beef them up and they could still be a challenge, but those little tweaks I could appreciate. I think the most boring thing to do would be to simply erase all their magics and just give them each 6 Dread Spells from the regular deck. For the sake of nostalgia they should at the very least keep the spells thematic to each sorcerer as much as possible. Two spells per turn would be awesome, not sure how I feel about that one. As for picking random spells or spells of the sorcerer's choice, that has precedent with the Frozen Horror (who had 6 fixed spells, plus 6 more of his choice).

For convenience perhaps the spells should say the name of the evil sorcerer (Shaman, Necromancer, etc) instead of "Sorcerer." Why make it generic like that? Then again they could just make all of them "Dread" Spells with the standard card back... and then just rely on the names, so in the quest book description it would just say like the Necromancer gets Deathbolt, Summon Mummy, etc. etc. I would miss the cool alternate artwork (I'm sure they'll give unique monster cards to the sorcerers, although their body points change in the two encounters, they could just give each of them their max BP for both encounters I guess).

So if it were me I guess I wouldn't change any of the names, but I accept that AH will probably do that since it's been their custom for awhile now, and if EU fans have been clamoring for them to discard some of the unique spells in favor of the modern GS ones, they would probably do that too (I don't know what fans have been saying, I just get the general impression that fans have been a lot less protective and nostalgic about this pack so probably would be open to changes to make it "better"). I fully expect there will be tweaks to the HERO spells, and I'm all for that, as I've said, I think they're a bit too weak so the heroes are unlikely to ever choose them in their current state, using the NA/remake rules. In general though it seems like this would be a hard pack played as is, and the Sorcerers seem pretty powerful. I wouldn't nerf them at all, though, either keep them the same or slightly tweak them in favor of the bad guys' strength.

They should include Pits of Darkness tiles in there and the instructions on how to use them though, and with another 5 quests I'm not sure what I'd do there. They would be completely original which is great. Would they include the Dark Company? That's the equivalent of about 4 quests, and they already have the red figures that could be used for that I suppose. You have a mission to take out the traitors first then track down and terminate the various evil mages and then the final showdown (so like a mega quest then individual quests). You could have a little bit of storyline tying them together, maybe the heroes would have the option in which order they completed the two tasks?

Or they could pad it out... so instead of one quest where you fight the Necromancer or the Stormmaster, there's a quest where you infiltrate his lair or rescue someone he had imprisoned or otherwise undo some damage he did (save a village from the effects of a storm, stop the undead who are plaguing them, etc) and then the next quest is the showdown. Or they could make it so that you fight him twice... maybe he increases in power the second time? And then they could still have the "boss rush" at the end where the bad guys are able to open doors (and activate rooms! something the Encarmine said was an idea he "hadn't given up on" and even though he's no longer with the team, I'm sure that idea is still rolling around in their brains too... it was in the vintage version of WOM after all! though the idea of Zargon activating rooms has existed in classic HQ before this too).

I'm looking forward to seeing WOM remake. If you'd have asked me before I kind of thought we'd have seen it yet this year, and maybe we would have if not for delays? Or perhaps its right on schedule.

Now the RUMORS are that somehow this will be the last one, but I think that may just be fears and doubts on the parts of fans, that they couldn't possibly be releasing this one (AND CoPD into retail) unless they were at the end of the life of the franchise. Maybe we won't see any new content after this either?

And yet, I can't help but think that would seem backwards... why are they putting First Light into retail store(s) now if they only plan to support the game for another 6-12 months? I've said it many times that if you want to speculate in this area, I have no problem with the idea that at some point Avalon Hill will shift their focus to other projects, and while HeroQuest won't "Die" they just won't keep cranking out new boxes every few months... instead they'll just continue to sell and support the existing material and focus on getting it into as many stores and territories as possible. Many people have said that as long as those two boxes come out they'll be satisfied. They aren't demanding that new stories keep being written.

I would respond to the above by saying, well what about Dark Company, the Japanese quests, lost Wizard and Dwarf packs, the Maze, Dave Morris quests, White Dwarf quests, Marvel Winter Special's Revenge of the Weather Man?? All those could get the "remake treatment" even if they were just in the form of digital content (has AH stopped doing those forever?)? Granted, other than Wizard and Dwarf packs (that were never released, so no nostalgia, and they "weren't playtested" so require a lot of work to finish, though you could also admit that fans are already doing that, regardless of what AH does... though this is their chance to expose a lot more people to it than if it remained as an indy fan project that could never be sold with the official names and logos anyway, unless AH does it themselves).

What of the rumor that somehow this expansion will be "the final battle with Zargon" (Morcar is the same person?). Maybe the "Mentor" figure will be included in a different color, to fulfill people's desire who missed out on the Mythic tier but also the desire of many to have a "Zargon" (or Morcar!) mini as any fans have created their own. But then what does Morcar/Zargon really look like? In the remake edition he has no canonical appearance and in the classic era he had several possible appearances (see the Marvel Winter Special, Sticker Album, and DOS pc game produced by Gremlin). Recall that they included a red version of the Mythic gargoyle in the Prophecy of Telor retail box... no instructions were included but many took that as an invitation to use it as an alternate piece to represent the "Demon form" of the Warlock (even though the "demon" shown on the cards does not look like a Gargoyle, even though it has bat wings, that's about all it has in common). Even if the sculpt is 100% identical, another "old man" wizard, maybe in a dark blue (gray is more boring) color could fuel the imagination of fans to use as a Morcar or Zargon "enemy" (or maybe one that only appears in holographic magical form or for use in "cutscenes" like the one where he executes Festral for his failure via his new lieutenants) .

I personally think making a canonical final battle with Zargon could have a lot more pitfalls than benefits. It would seem like a cheap cop out to kill him off, because you're going to turn right around and bring him back anyway (unless you really are DONE creating new stuff). CoPD ends on a cliffhanger... will it still do so, or is WOM supposed to follow storyline wise right after? That "Dark tower" and "Apocalyptic vision" is supposed to be of the place where you fight the four evil mages for the last time? Will the Crown of Shadows figure in (maybe a copy of the card will be included? Maybe those extra quests will be the search for the Crown if you haven't gotten it already, or maybe it was stolen by some bad guys connected with the evil sorcerers?). If they "kill off" Zargon and replace him with Morcar, a bad guy basically identical to him, that would seem silly too. I could see a battle with Zargon where he gets away, or the last thing in the epilogue is the hand reaching out of the debris and a big question mark... or his eye opening, or the dirt being disturbed at his "tomb" or something would be a very wonderfully cliched action comic book/movie trope I could get behind. Zargon is alive if you want him to be, and especially if you aren't finished playing HeroQuest. Well, what if he WASN'T really dead... ?

But this idea that the franchise is ending with these, that they are out of ideas, and the idea that you are going to fight Zargon himself on the board, are all strictly rumors at this time.

What else could be included in the box? In the past they never needed anything specific to throw in extra stuff, just this is a good enough opportunity to include something people want to add value and appeal. So WOM might have a female Wizard included. That could be cool. Of course if the Wizard Quest Pack is planned at some point, that was going to have a female Wizard. Maybe it would mean they weren't going to do that, or maybe it would just be an opportunity for yet another cool sculpt. Would you want to get the only slightly altered female Wizard that was included in the Haslab campaign, say in shiny red plastic? It's better than nothing, but it's not super impressive. Maybe a brand new sculpt? But still the opportunity to have a female wizard when we have the male and female versions now of the Barbarian and Elf in retail (not yet the Dwarf, but you could argue that the Explorer is at least close). If they are not going to renew the Rogue for a print run, it's an opportunity to include the Rogue Heir of Elethorn in the box even though thematically there's no connection here (he wasn't the Heir to Elethorn because he was busy seeking out the Crown of Shadows or pursuing the Evil Wizards of Morcar?). The Guardian Knight had only the vaguest of connections to ROTDM in which he was included (the Knights are mentioned once or twice and Sir Ragnar is said to have been part of their number at one time). The Warlock has no connection to PoT other than I suppose a "fire daemon" being one of the creatures you face within that pack and the Warlock can turn into a (friendly?) demon. The Druid has no real connection to ATOH but two versions are included. I guess you could say since JoD is Dwarf themed the Explorerers fit, but the Berserkers? The Orc Bard was the only new hero that was incorporated into a storyline with rule mechanics in SQT (he takes over after the first hero dies, and "some good guy orcs" are a feature of that campaign as it is).

Or maybe there will be no new heroes in these boxes, still, I think it would be reasonable to expect that some red figure(s) will appear, I mean besides the red "Men-At-Arms" figures that would be used in WOM as mercenaries.

Should those Mercs remain weak and still be cheaper (with the massive discount for re-hiring combined with the Potion of Charm coupon for initial hires?) or should they simply be made equal (and perhaps the same exact sculpts) as the Frozen Horror mercs?

I kind of would like to see that they sex swap them to complement the FH sets (even if they are in a nice red color for nostalgia). So you could get male Scouts and Halberders, and female crossbowman and swordsmen this time. IF there are no bolt-on weapons (which would require brand new sculpts of all four designs anyway) then I would expect there to be a whopping 24 mercs in the box. They could I suppose make 12 of them red and 12 of them another color (boring gray?). It could cost more but would be an opportunity, so you could swap some of them out with your FH set to have an all male or all female or mixed group. Hiring 24 mercs could get expensive, but would it make the game too easy for the heroes? You could institute a limit I suppose... in the vintage rules it was 4 mercs per hero, which makes a total of 16. So if you split the colors that means you'd have a mixture. Then again with that many mercenaries and if you don't include any colored rims (like Ribby's Remarkable RimsTM!) to differentiate them it could get a little confusing, of course the original version didn't care, did it?

Having an alternate color of mercs would also make it easier to modify the quests to include bad guy mercs as well (there weren't any bad guy mercs in the original WOM, though FH used bad guy mercs and they were all the same color).

I would be disappointed if they just made the four evil Wizards GRAY (they have had this tendency to make figures gray, when they could use the original colors). I get it that they seem averse to the idea of making a hero any color than red, regardless of the original color. They made the smaller Ogres grey in MOTM remake instead of cornflower blue and the female Barbarian red instead of pastel blue. You could argue this was a cost saving measure in the original because the sprue was all the same color in the 1992 packs instead of having the hero on her own sprue alone. Same with FH where the original hero was pastel blue and now was made red in the remake. The ATOH smaller ogres were all gray instead of red and the boss ogres were beige (!) instead of dark blue. The WOM should all be dark blue and the mercenaries red. Can you imagine if every character in the pack was GRAY instead? They have shown they're all about using brand new colors never before seen (ROTDM, JoD, ATOH) and even variant shades of colors (silvery red for the red characters within those holographic retail versions of the Mythic boxes... but you could say there they are trying to make those different visually from the existing "collectible" haslab versions).

I hope they take the opportunity to include rare or out of print figures in this and CoPD is the bottom line, but would I be disappointed with something brand new? Not in the least. Still, IF the rumors were true, and these are the last two official packs that will be coming out, they ought to use the space in the boxes they have to release whatever they are going to do, and if they were to release every last bit of stuff from the Mythic packs, that would certainly be a gesture welcomed by many who never got the chance to own those (and can't afford the absurd prices being charged for them now!).

[Kurgan]

Wow my avatar is the necromancer! He's one of the WOM that really needs some better spells. "Fear me as I conjure... A MUMMY!" "Cower in terror at my creation of TWO... count 'em TWO skeletons!"

The only WOM that I think that has decent spells is the Orc Shaman. But I really need to go look at them again.

Well, let's take a look at them:
Dispell, not the same as Dispel from Mage of the Mirror, this one forces a spell from the Wizard's hand. It's not terrible, Sinestra's Dispel takes effect after the spell has been cast, this one just prevents the Wizard, Elf, Druid, etc. from casting it. If they're going to make any changes to this one they might force a hero to discard a spell or skill. Or they could just make it the same as the one in MotM.

Escape, we already have this in the game system, but the mechanics are a bit more simple here, instead of teleporting to an undisclosed location on the board the High Mage just gets out of a precarious position an teleports to another area in the room, kinda like the Warlock's Dark Wings, except this spell is cast on the Mage's turn. I think it needs to be changed, should be cast on the hero's turn when he's about to take damage. It's more effective that way.

Madness allows the High Mage to control a hero's movement... Not the greatest spell. A Command spell would work much better as Madness is very limited on what you can force a hero to do, just move him away... Ok, but why?

Strands of Binding I get the gist behind it, the hero gets a little tied up and needs to break the strands before moving. It's kinda like Tempest but could potentially last longer. Keep it.

Rust is more powerful then the Dread spell accompanying the Game System as it doesn't just target a sword or helmet. You can force a hero to lose the Battle Axe or even Chainmail if need be. Keep it, replace the other Rust spell.

Wall of Flame needs to be a little more intimidating. Instead of just blocking a path I think heroes should be given the option to go through it at the cost of damage. I'm not sure what good attacking the flames will do in extinguishing them, but I'd like to see some other way around it, like the Wizard casting a Water spell to extinguishing the fire.

Call Skeleton, this one you're spot on about, there's nothing intimidating about 2 Skeletons, Summon Undead already beats this. It could be replaced by Summon Undead or just spawn 4 Skeletons. I'd say more, but then we'd need to include extra skeletons in this quest pack.

Death Bolt is automatic 1BP damage... I would hope fore something that would hurt more then a pit trap. Maybe 2 damage would be better... It's called a Death Bolt, you'd think it would drop hero to 1BP automatically.

Fear is quite different from the traditional Fear, it lasts only 1 turn and the hero can't attack... It works a lot like Tempest but the hero can move. I'd say just change this to the original Fear spell.

Raise the Dead is a little more effective since it can be cast on a Heroes turn, as soon as he kills a monster, replace it with a skeleton. I understand what's going on there but I'd prefer the Reanimation spell from MotM, bring back a whole bunch of undead, not just 1. Reanimation never gets a chance to be used in MotM, I think it would be great for the Necromancer to use. I usually give it to the Witch Lord.

Skulls of Doom gives the Necromancer 2 attack dice ranged, Heroes defend normally... No! Just no! This is a poor excuse for a spell much like Arrows of the Night. The spell should cause 2BP of damage, that's it, no defense. But this would be very similar to Death Bolt so maybe heroes should defend with mind points. I don't know, something needs to change here.

Summon Mummy you've already touched on. Bring in 2 Mummies or at least Summon Undead we have little intimidation with this one.

Blinding Sleet, this one has potential, none of the heroes can cast spells or make ranged attacks. Fine, but add a Mind Point roll for duration, it should also include Skills too. Let's see the Knight pull off Shield Block if he can't see with only 2MP!

Earthquake is pretty good, 1 damage in a straight line, but it also puts the heroes in a pit, giving them less attack and defense dice while in it. Maybe they can make it even more debilitating by causing damage equal to Pit of Darkness.

Hurricane seems a little fun, sending a hero back in a straight line to trigger a trap or hit a wall. Maybe it should make them lose a turn too.

Lightning Bolt isn't as spectacular as the one in the Game System, this one only goes 6 spaces and attacks with 3 defendable combat dice. No, let's stick with the regular Lightning Bolt that continues endlessly in a straight line dealing an automatic 2 damage.

Thieving Wind I like this one, much like Rust any equipment card is susceptible to loss. And since we actually have Equipment cards for this version on Hero Quest, by God keep it, I love the concept of a random piece of equipment being lost.

Wall of Ice is similar to the Frozen Horror spell, but weaker, they could just make this the same, I guess. Also the defense dice needs to be explained. Black shields or White Shields?

Orc Berserker gives an Orc 2 turns. I think we can boost this one to maybe the Berserker's Frenzy skill and attack multiple heroes diagonally too.

Sharpen Blades all Orcs in the room get an extra Attack Dice, but only for 1 turn... Maybe add longevity to this, otherwise it's pretty good.

Shield of Protection is good too, extra defense for all Orcs, but I'd say to include other monsters in the room too and maybe add longevity.

Spirit of Vengeance is very similar to Genie but only 4 attack dice. I'd say boost it up to 5 attack dice, hero still gets to defend.

Summon Goblins brings 4 more Goblins into the fray. I have nothing against this, maybe just roll 1-2 = 4 Goblins, 3-4 = 5 Goblins, 5-6 = 6 Goblins.

Summon Orcs should just be replaced by the one that came with the Game System.

Some spells can be kept but the majority of them seem to need alterations. Also, none of these take into account Mind Points, I think that needs to change. There's a reason the Barbarian should be vulnerable to magic.

Just highlighting your comments. Not saying I agree with all, but good hear that!

I would not expect 23 Men-At-Arms cards to be included, unless they really did give us 23 mechanical variants in the WOM remake! Instead I'd just assume there will be four types and thus only 4 cards, leaving a little extra room in the box.

AH will probably listen most carefully to the EU fans who have modified, tweaked, and critiqued WOM over the years, and hopefully they know best.


If Dark Company is remade, it would only need a few tweaks, like the repeated furniture that is unnecessary.

[Thrasher79]

Hello
perfect implementation for me would be:
Not just 1 adventure per mage, but 2-3. It would then be small mini campaigns with the respective mage as the final boss.
Every mage should be protected. Be it through monsters or a pitfall. But a hero should never be able to go directly to the mage to kill him within one turn in the worst case.
Boroush should also have monsters that are better. In each quest, one type of monster is slightly better. Only not with this quest.
Each mage gets 1 or 2 potions with which he can cast 2 spells per round.
If Morcar is really the final boss. Should this be spread over 4 quests. The 4 mages can be distributed in it as intermediate enemies.
It would then be more than 10 quests in total. But I don't think that's a bad thing. Due to the fact that they would actually be small campaigns, this would still be playable. And the Men-At-Arms wouldn't be so bad for the evil player
I would be absolutely happy with something like that.
And please not some new hero or helper again. They are already far too much and also far too strong towards the old heroes. At least for our group. They hate them all.

Greetings Thrasher 79

[LucaRocks]

Man, is that a Kurgan post discussing WOM or the novel War and Peace! They're both the same length LOL. Just joshing ya man!

I only wanted to stop by and say that I really would like the WOM RUST to be retitled DECAY. Sounds much more menacing this way.

Also makes me want a Dread pell that turns the heroes into old men. Could be it makes them roll 1 movement dice, 1 attack and 2 defense. Maybe theres a potion that restores youth to counter.

[wallydubbs]

Personally, I would rather have the clunker spells be replaced by something a bit stronger but still keeping them different that the game system ones. Replacing them with the game system spells would be effective, no doubt. But brand new spells would make each WOM unique. Plus, we could always add the game spells to them anyway in addition to their own. So for example, maybe summon mummies could summon 4 mummies without needing to roll. That would make it stronger and keep it different from summon undead. Same with summon skeleton. Have like 5 of them appear at once or something. And I would say that a version of reanimation that turns all dead monsters in the room to zombies would be appropiate and cool.

I would also rename some of the spells that have similar names as other ones. Maybe "Terrorize" instead of "Fear" and so on. I do feel you have a great idea with having more spells deal with MP. I really like your version of death bolt also.

There'll definitely be room in the box to fit extra monsters. The original Call Skeleton and Summon Mummy were limited as the Game System only came with 4 Skeletons and 2 Mummies. So definitely need to add extra undead monsters in the box if they're going to boost it to 4 Mummies. I wouldn't have an issue with it. Hell, with all the new expansions they'd be keen to allow the Necromancer to Summon Specter's.

But just based off of Against the Ogre Hoard it seems like they try to make these quest packs as close to the original. Only thing is, there's a lot of overlapping between names and rules and such. This is the reason I worry so much that they wouldn't bother remaking it. Lots of spells would need to be renamed if not changed completely. Judging by the stats of Morcar's Wizards I'd sooner attack then cast a spell.

There's the Potion of Alchemy that completely goes against the sell back option. Coat a Battle Axe with the paste, turn it to gold and get 100 gold, or you can sell the Battle Axe itself back for 225 gold. But at the same time you can sell back a dagger for 12 gold or use the Potion of Alchemy for 100. I think they could just rewrite this by getting an additional 100 gold with whatever price you'd normally get back after selling.

In this one Mercenaries were kept if they survive a quest for but only 10 gold, contrary to what Frozen Horror says. I think keeping WoM Mercenary buy is better. Frozen Horror was sold to us as a broken quest pack.

A potion of Magical Aptitude is obscured into irrelevance thanks to the Wand of Magic. Sure, the Elf could still use it or any other spell casting hero, but the Wizard is the only one that can cast more then 3 spells. Sure, the Druid can cast Lifeforce and Shapeshift at the same time if need be. But the Potion loses a lot of it's luster thanks to the Wand of Magic. When I started a campaign with the old game, I decided to keep the Potion of Magical Aptitude in the deck but the Heroes wouldn't find the Wand of Magic until playing WoM. Every time they found this potion and gave it to the Wizard they thought it was the greatest thing and the Wizard always found ways to use it. It's an interesting bonus when heroes don't get to use it often.

There's also Potion of Fire Resistance, but it doesn't say anything about helping you walk through a wall of Flame, which should definitely be allowed. But I still have a Barbarian still waiting to use his Fire Ring from Keller's Keep. I don't understand why they have a distinction between the Fire resistance and Magic Resistance. Fireballs are generally created by the Magic, so the latter could encompass the former.

But I am oh so looking forward to the Fire burst traps.

[LucaRocks]

Another great analysis Wally! Is WOM your favorite quest pack? You seem to be on top of it from all angles!

In other news, Ash gives us his HQ wishlist for 2025 (which includes his thoughts on WOM):
https://youtu.be/auhang--DgE?si=UiXsIdbkCgmVS0ms

Also, I am not sure if anyone else mentioned this but what if they kept it as WOM and gave us an updated mini of the OG Chaos Warlock named Morcar? The one they gave us in the game system is OK but I want the buff dude with skull head version that the original HQ came with!