FIRST LIGHT discussion

[HispaZargon]

The spanish edition has been pushed black from may to june at least in Amazon Spain. Just got a notification so Ill have toneait a bit longer. Still have ATOH and ROTDM to play so no hurries.

Probably it will be delayed, but Hasbro Pulse pre-orders of First Light still indicate May 2025 delivery, approximately.

[Kurgan]

Good to know, thanks for the updates guys!

Once again lets run down the rule changes, which FL owners may be applying to all future quests they play (a few only apply to this quest pack or your custom adventures made from it but many others could be universal):

CARDS:
Dwarf hero - Begins with Hand Axe rather than Shortsword (not much of a change except for the sell-back price and the fact it can be thrown - and lost, leaving the Dwarf to fight unarmed with 1 combat die if he has no other weapon!)

Courage Spell (Fire) - lasts for only one attack (and can be wasted if monsters move out of sight after cast but before hero attacks).

Command Spell (Dread) - Allows Zargon to take control of the affected hero's movement and WEAPON attack (so not intended to give him access to their spells or potions, in theory; doesn't mention unarmed attack of the Monk hero - Zargon's call on that I suppose).

Lighting Bolt Spell (Dread) - doesn't harm monsters (Doug Hopkins confirms this is errata, its meant to damage all characters in its path just like 2021/2022)

Potion of Speed (Equipment) - You can only use one of these per turn even if you have multiple ones (similar to Potion of Dexterity from other expansions).

New Rule Clarifications in the Rulebook:

Suggested that players can "role play" in the game if they want to. This was mentioned in the PDF version of Knightfall before this.

Furniture can block Line of Sight and Movement... if you want it too. This came up on the Avalon Hill discord some time ago, someone argued that because the booklet never actually said that furniture blocked movement, therefore it doesn't. I argued that the App lets you walk through furniture IF you toggle "intangible furniture" on in the settings, but this was never explained as an in-game mechanic ever before in any booklet. It seems obvious to me that furniture is intended to block player movement all this time... Jungles of Delthrak for the first time introduced potions and magical artifacts that allow the passage of characters THROUGH furniture. Previously "pass through rock" and similar powers only allowed travel through the white walls (and walls formed by blocked squares and fallen rock tiles; while the App finally allowed this after many installments ignoring the tiles for passage for some of these powers, but also allowed you to walk through closed doors with pass through rock and similar powers). It's true that the 1990/2021/2022 booklets mentioned closed doors are blocking line of sight (and movement as well) but didn't reference any other furniture specifically. The App does weird things, like it allows you to walk through treasure chests (in theory this was allowed to facilitate the disarming of a furniture trap on the chest by moving onto that square as many choose to do just as if you were disarming any other trapped square, while some others say it is enough to move adjacent). First Light is unique in that the furniture are flat tiles, so having heroes stand on top of them isn't an issue of balance, I guess is why they felt the need to add this clarification.

Excess Items can be sold back to the Armory between quests for half the gold value ("A Trip to the Armory" section, pg. 19).


Otherwise all the Rule Clarifications are in the FL Quest book only:

(page 6):

Blessings, Curses, Treasure: refers to a rule in this quest book where if it says a curse or blessing was given then have that character mark it on their sheet.
Oracle's Blessing means the hero can ask Zargon to lay out a room beyond an adjacent closed door OR re-roll one of the following (attack, movement, or defend dice, taking the second result). The blessing is a one-time benefit.

Curse: place the "Mark of Zargon" (mystery tile) on the character sheet of the hero who got the curse. One per quest Zargon can force this hero to re-roll one of their dice rolls (attack, defense, or movement) and then picks which one the hero actually gets. The token is then removed, but the curse re-appears at the beginning of the next quest, until such time as the hero donates 800 gold coins to charity in between quests which lifts the curse.

Glyph Key Scroll: An item without a card found in this quest pack that seems to be exclusive to these quests. You can use it once to destroy a magical glyph that was discovered as a free action. Doesn't affect magical glyphs "disturbed by looting."

Hearthkin Horn: An item (identified as an Artifact in the Companion App) with no physical card. Use an action to blow the horn (single use). It summons a "hearthkin skeleton" on any square within the same room or corridor (an undead ally for each hero, basically). They're just like normal skeletons except they defend with white shields and have 8 squares of movement and last until the end of the quest (if not destroyed). The App (v.5.1) treats them like most other mercenaries... they can't be given items to use and don't search for anything but can open doors and each moves after the hero assigned to them.

Starting/Ending Quests: It explains (like in KK/ROTWL) that you may begin or end with an entrance or exit door, but it explains you can use a regular closed door for this, not placing it until it would be within sight of a hero who may then open it like any other door (the heroes line up outside if they use an entrance door).

Dread Spells: It explains that the monsters with magic can cast each of their spells once per quest, regardless of if another monster has cast that spell already in the same quest (so cards don't limit supply like they do for hero spells, basically... most of us knew this already but ATOH uses a card for each instance of a spell or else for duration so some might not get it at first). Some monsters can cast spells "at will" meaning it uses an action but can be used every turn.

(page 7):
Unthreatened Movement (like Into the Northlands): for every movement die the hero normally rolls on their turn, they can move 4 squares without rolling if desired... IF there are no monsters on the board. So 2d6 hero could move 8 squares without rolling if desired. It doesn't say what happens if in the course of their movement they reveal a monster, so Zargon can rule on that (whether they now are required to roll and maybe subtract what they've already moved or just continue with whatever they were allowed to move at first).

Large Monsters (as in MOTM/FH/Into the Northlands): Monsters that take up more than one square can target any adjacent hero but also any that are diagonally adjacent to them. So a 2 square monster can attack any hero in the surrounding 10 squares.

Monsters Without Mind Points: Spells that affect a monster's mind points can't be cast on monsters that have 0 MP. So Sleep can't be cast on Zombies/Skeletons/Mummies for example.

Item Exchange: Heroes can exchange items so long as they are both adjacent and neither is adjacent to a monster. The rulebook already says you can pass an item to another hero on your turn, but this clarification is the same as the one presented in MOTM/FH. It reminds heroes they can freely exchange items between quests as well.

Double Sided Game Board: (refers to the "caverns" on the reverse side of the board, which of course only exists in First Light)

Sly Storage: In a room with the Cupboard, first hero to search for treasure draws 2 treasure cards (resolve in order drawn). No choice is given in the matter. It doesn't say what happens if there's a treasure note in the text as well, but maybe that only comes up if you use this rule with other packs outside of FL?

Healing Hearth: In a room with the Fireplace it says when a hero would normally draw a treasure card, they may instead choose to restore 1 lost BP with the healing warmth. This in theory means every hero could do this once per quest.

Qwindrak the Warlock: refers to powers only this character from FL has access to (using the two square Dragon miniature, also exclusive to this pack).

Tips for Zargon: encourages Zargon to modify the quests at will to create the best fun and challenge experience for your players. Similar to FH/MOTM it advises Zargon he's the game master in charge of this sort of thing but it's a good idea to study the notes before play.


Did I miss any?

[Parzival]

A minor quibble: The First Light rules don’t actually state that when the Dwarf throws his axe he drops to 1 attack die. If you’ve only got that set, you’ll never know that an unarmed Hero is reduce to 1 attack die. In the AH era, this rule only ever appears in the GS’s Quest Book, but at least it appears, and before it’s likely to be relevant (prior to this, the only person with a “disposable” weapon is the Wizard, and he is at 1 attack die anyway— and if he’s in melee, his player has made a really bad tactical decision.

Healing Hearth: Note that if you do use the Healing Hearth, your Hero cannot search for Treasure in that same room afterward. So if all four heroes in the chamber opt to Heal, any actual treasure there will be lost!

[Daedalus]

Lighting Bolt Spell (Dread) - doesn't harm monsters (Doug Hopkins confirms this is errata, its meant to damage all characters in its path just like 2021/2022)

By characters, you mean monsters and Heroes. Just clarifying this for everyone, as I misread the intent at first.

Otherwise all the Rule Clarifications are in the FL Quest book only:

(page 7):
Sly Storage: In a room with the Cupboard, first hero to search for treasure draws 2 treasure cards (resolve in order drawn). No choice is given in the matter. It doesn't say what happens if there's a treasure note in the text as well, but maybe that only comes up if you use this rule with other packs outside of FL?

A minor quibble: The First Light rules don’t actually state that when the Dwarf throws his axe he drops to 1 attack die. If you’ve only got that set, you’ll never know that an unarmed Hero is reduce to 1 attack die. In the AH era, this rule only ever appears in the GS’s Quest Book, but at least it appears, and before it’s likely to be relevant (prior to this, the only person with a “disposable” weapon is the Wizard, and he is at 1 attack die anyway— and if he’s in melee, his player has made a really bad tactical decision.

Healing Hearth: Note that if you do use the Healing Hearth, your Hero cannot search for Treasure in that same room afterward. So if all four heroes in the chamber opt to Heal, any actual treasure there will be lost!

I believe the interaction between the Instruction Booklet and the Quest Book already cover these two specific issues:

To search a room for treasure:
. . .
4. If there is special treasure to be
found, Zargon will tell you so.
5. If there is no special treasure to be
found, shuffle the treasure deck, draw a
card, and read it aloud.
. . .
Zargon, here’s what to do when a hero
searches for treasure:
• If there is a special treasure, as
described in the quest notes, read its
description out loud. A special treasure
can only be found once by the first hero
who searches a given room.
• If there is no special treasure in the
searched room, tell the hero to draw a
treasure card.

Healing Hearth
When a hero would draw a treasure card in a room containing a fireplace, they may instead heal 1 Body Point.

Sly Storage
The first hero to draw a treasure card in a room containing a cupboard instead draws two treasure cards. Resolve the cards in the order drawn.

The first Hero to search for treasure in a room with a quest note that includes special treasure is found by that Hero. If that room also contains a cupboard, the next hero to search for treasure is the first hero that would draw a treasure card. Instead, that hero draws two treasure cards. Any remaining heroes would draw one treasure card if they search for treasure.

If a room with a quest note that includes special treasure instead contains a fireplace, the first hero to search for treasure finds the special treasure. Any other Heroes (the later 3) that would later draw a treasure card may opt to heal or draw a treasure card as normal.

Were a fireplace and cupboard both located in the same room, the first hero finds the special treasure. As Zargon, I'd say the second hero could opt to heal or draw two treasure cards. The same applies for later heroes unless the sly storage option was already chosen by a previous hero, in which case they may only heal or draw one treasure card.

[Kurgan]

Yeah, characters... figures... models... all encompassing.

Ah. I would have given the special furniture treasure with whatever the notes say was the first treasure. I also didn't go through the book to see if those situations specifically arose... (special note treasure with cupboard and/or fireplace in the room).

[Daedalus]

That's an interesting point that for some reason I hadn't considered--so a requalification is in order. If a special treasure has been noted as being contained within a cupboard, then that would be found by the first hero searching for treasure. As Zargon I'd say all other searches in that room would each result in a single draw from the treasure card deck (no sly storage). If a special treasure were noted as being found in the fireplace, then again the first hero searching for treasure would find it. As Zargon, I'd rule that all other searching heroes would each then draw a treasure card (no healing hearth). My earlier post was intended to hold only if a special treasure is noted somewhere else in the room apart from a cupboard or fireplace, such as in the possession of a monster.

[Kurgan]

We're not quite to the point yet of searching each piece of furniture individually for treasure (as Mike Gray's team considered back in 1992). Sometimes the quest notes will say where the special treasure is located (that might correspond to a specific piece of furniture on the board), other times not.

To me, as with treasure chests in general, it provides a visual cue to the heroes that maybe... maybe, this will be one of those special rooms, so give it a shot (but search for traps first!).

[Parzival]

That's an interesting point that for some reason I hadn't considered--so a requalification is in order. If a special treasure has been noted as being contained within a cupboard, then that would be found by the first hero searching for treasure. As Zargon I'd say all other searches in that room would each result in a single draw from the treasure card deck (no sly storage). If a special treasure were noted as being found in the fireplace, then again the first hero searching for treasure would find it. As Zargon, I'd rule that all other searching heroes would each then draw a treasure card (no healing hearth). My earlier post was intended to hold only if a special treasure is noted somewhere else in the room apart from a cupboard or fireplace, such as in the possession of a monster.

In the First Light quests, the search of certain pieces of furniture differs from the rulebook. In more than one quest, you must be adjacent to a bookcase to search it and find a particular item unique to the quest. You must also be adjacent to a body to search that body. This is a departure from the rulebook (where the actual grid location of a searching hero has no effect on any search). These unique rules aren’t ever told to the players, so unless by accident your hero is adjacent to the relevant furniture/body, you won’t know that a normal search won’t be effective. Players could end up drawing a treasure card and deciding there’s nothing left to search for!

While personally I would have no problem with a “must be adjacent to an item to search it” rule, that’s not the standard.

Oops.

[Kurgan]

I've only played quest 1 so far as Zargon, but basically it was one of those "you see a body... you can examine/investigate it if you move adjacent" verbal assists. If anything I wish I'd given a little more explanation for things with the group I played with, but it ended up going fairly smoothly (until they split the party and get TPKed!).

Flipped through the quest booklet and I don't see where there's any kind of general trend of needing to be adjacent to things to search them. Yes, it does say you find something "inside" a piece of furniture, but nowhere is it stated that you have to move up next to that thing or you'd miss it (and draw a card instead?). The old HeroQuest did this too... "inside the chest you find."

Searching furniture individually by moving adjacent would be an interesting rule change, but it's not really in there. Searching dead bodies represented by skull tiles (where you have to roll for random gold) on the board is new, but that's specific to one quest and not intended as any kind of general rule change I don't think.

I only recall in the EQP (MOTM) it being said "the chest is empty, but inside the tomb you find...," which on its own wouldn't be that big a deal, but in the draft notes (thanks lucapaschi) they discussed allowing individual searches on pieces of furniture. The rule has always been for the NA edition, one search per hero per room... and so in a solo quest (such as the quest for the Avenger aka the "Sovereign Sword" in the remake) it would make sense to require individual furniture searches unless they were doing away with the "one search per hero per room" rule (so the Elf could search the same room three times?). Instead, you search the entire room all at once without moving, getting whatever is in there.

Yes, there are some quests in First Light where the "second hero to search" finds something (the only other pack where I recall anything about the second, etc. hero to search being spelled out in the notes is ROTDM where sometimes the second hero to search gets something... which of course would mean it would be missed if you were down to your last hero, but those are the breaks I guess!). But again, no direction given that you have to move adjacent to a specific furniture piece to find whatever is hidden "inside" it. That would be an interesting house rule, but again I think you'd want to get rid of limits on the room, or make up some other type of framework (like each piece of furniture can be searched once and I guess the room itself can be searched once for each hero?).

Going back to the old debate about needing to move adjacent to treasure chests to search them (or to obtain what is inside), I consider that completely debunked by the 2nd to the last Stephen Baker interview (not the one where he talks about writing First Light, but the one from right before that where he answered all those geeky questions about his intentions for the rules and what he wrote or advised one, see HispaZargon's list). The only ruleset that commands such a mechanic is the Japanese edition (I don't agree that was the intention for EU's "The Trial" either, though I can understand why a person might interpret it that way with no other context). Now it is fine and dandy that perhaps AH threw a bone to those people who like the walk-up-to-chest-to-open mechanic by having a few chests that appear in corridors in ROTDM (and instead of sectioning them off in corridors called "special rooms" as in KK/ROTWL they just put them there).. which are automatically searched when you move adjacent.


One other little silly thing about FL. So when I Zargoned it for the first time, I thought I'd be cool and sit on the side of the board that had the "heroquest" logo. I guess I was thinking the "Zargon spot" on the classic board was the one facing the big heroquest logo and this was something they wanted as a change, I quickly realized that wasn't right and my seat change with the remake style board made no sense. The board is still oriented the usual way in the quest map. So Zargon should always sit at the bottom of the "long" horizontal side. If you put the quest map on top of the table, the quest note text would be pointing towards him. And the hero players should be flanking on the sides and facing him from across the table. Anything else and Zargon is going to be twisting the book sideways to orient himself, which again, was silly. Just a tiny little thing I wanted to share.

[Parzival]

I put a review of the First Light Quest Book on my blog. I don’t give away any secrets, though I do address certain oddities in the way it departs from the standard rules.

https://parzivalsplace.blogspot.com/202 ... light.html