FIRST LIGHT discussion

[Kurgan]

The hypothetical re-release of Wizards of Morcar is a big deal... the nostalgia associated with the themes of the art and lore, even if it was widely acknowledged to be less playtested and substantial compared to previous expansions from the 90's, plus the feeling of "completing" that legacy collection in the remake mode.

I think the release of WOM in remake style was going to depend upon how well ATOH remake did, and by all counts it seems to have been a success. So in my view it's inevitable, the only question being what will they add/change about it. ATOH had new things added that were unexpected, but some things people thought would change did not. I think they will privilege feedback and the modding community's tweaking of it on the European side over the last three decades, and not just perceptions of it today. If people say they want it on social media, that's an "insight" and they will use that to fuel the production.

Tweaking the hero spells to be more powerful, retaining the "Dread" Spells (only minor tweaks would be called for, as they are pretty powerful), and padding out the campaign with another 5 quests (would these be standard group quests? solo adventures? arena model like ATOH? or something else?). They could fill out the story with an epilogue, in the spirit of the original.

Rumors that Zargon himself would be seen on the battlefield, even destroyed seem tantalizing and sensational, but to what end? You kill off the bad guy, and make the next expansion taking place before that one? You replace him with another bad guy who is basically the same? Or you do a fake out, and "somehow" he survived? In comic books major characters "die" plenty of times and it's almost always a fake out... the big ones don't stay dead, though it can be an opportunity to re-style the character.

Of course AH have maintained the Zargon has never actually been portrayed (same with Morcar or Grimdead, when you think about it) in the board games. Yes, Morcar was depicted visually a few different ways (in the official Sticker Album, the DOS PC game, and in the Marvel Winter Special). Many of us grew up in the US thinking that the bearded guy on the GM screen was actually what Zargon looked like (which is close to the idea of the Sticker Album showing the two wizards looking very similar). They may wish to keep the depiction of Zargon vague. Still, another mini similar to the "Mentor" figure from the Mythic set (the 2nd alternate Wizard) in another color of plastic would be something cool to include. They wouldn't have to give any instructions on its use, just include it, and I'd be happy. Most of the time there's no need to have a mini for him, although WOM does give an opportunity as there's a "Glimpse of Chaos" Prologue to WOM. Of course the prologue to ATOH was completely rewritten in the remake version.

Will they hold off on WOM while tossing out other smaller expansions (and maybe CoPD in retail) and original expansion boxes and save it for the "last" release? First Light I think is a big deal for them, they're hoping it will bring in many new players and not just be a flash in the pan at Target. We could be looking at the next 5+ years of HQ based on how well it does, is my speculation. I'm sure they're all hoping HeroQuest will be alive and well officially well beyond Dec 31st, 2026.

[wallydubbs]

I think Against the Ogre Hoard was a success, I actually have 2 copies. By that logic you'd think Legacy would want a Wizard's of Morcar remake, I certainly would. But if they're wanting to rate it First Light, I don't think it's going to sell well. I'm not overly excited about First Light. Sure, there are new quests, different hero sculpts, the Dragon miniature and the reverse side of the board, but I don't think any HeroQuest fanboy will care to use the cardboard cutouts. The quests are actually already out on the app, so Asides from the reverse side of the board there's nothing we're super eager to get.

[Kurgan]

Just when you thought there was no news.. Dungeon Master over on youtube reveals he found out about the newest "FanRoll" collectible dice to go with HeroQuest. These are the "First Light Dice Collection" with a Tin set for release in February, and a seperate option to get a snap together dice tray (similar to the one released with the US version of the JoD crystal inclusion dice, in a kind of record album style box). Apparently it will be coming to FLGSes as well. The tin graphic and image on the bottom of the dice tray is predictably the (newer) YellowFly cover image from First Light.

The dice themselves are a purple color with bright gold painted images. I'm not sure if they're the same level of transparency as the Dread Veil or JoD dice or more of a marbled with glitter color. But they do look like they'd be easier to read (and thus more functional). Supposedly these won't be quite as limited as the previous fancy dice collections.

The funny thing is Ribby and I KNEW about these, because the guy at GenCon at the Fanroll booth who "didn't seem to know much" told us about purple dice. But both of us assumed he was talking about the previously released Dread Veil Dice, maybe getting a second print run. Instead, the speculation about "purple dice" being for First Light was actually correct, so kudos to Bohemyus and anyone else who guessed that!

I see that knockoffs of these dice already exist (I guess the official is a knockoff of the bootleg) being sold on Etsy for some time now. But of course no fancy tin or tray and probably more cheaply made.

Thanks to Dungeon Master on youtube (German channel) for sharing this, and @Bohemyus for bringing it to my attention on the HeroQuestFans Discord!

Page with info here (Southern Hobby): https://www.southernhobby.com/fanroll-6ct-heroquest-first-light-d6-dice-set/p69665/

[Daedalus]

Like most if not all of us, I hope First Light sees success. What I think would be a great follow-up would be a First-Light expansion. What I mean is a Quest Pack with 10 Quests in a booklet as usual, with a new rule or two (include scroll artifact cards, for instance). The monsters would all be cardboard standees to match the core set, and a few new tiles could also be added to spice things up. Maybe even add an alternate gender sculpt for a Hero miniature in each expansion.

Key point: The standee monsters should already be available as miniatures from another expansion. This way, the new Quest Pack would come in at a lower cost point, but more serious fans who have collected Rise of the Dread Moon for example could reuse those miniatures in new official Quests. New First-Light expansion purchasers could later upgrade to regular expansions for better minis as well. Best of both worlds = more market.

If I understand correctly, Stephen Baker has authored at least one more Quest series for Avalon Hill, so let's see it as an economy expansion! This way, a new generation of fans can be introduced to quality HeroQuest expansions that are true to the original game.

[Kurgan]

With respect of course, Patrick O'Rourke said in the interview that they didn't have plans to do this actually. They don't want to end up splitting the fanbase between those who played First Light and those who started with the game system... by releasing expansions that REQUIRE First Light (as opposed to expansions that are compatible with both).

Yeah SB has contributed Prophecy of Telor as well as First Light in his quest portfolio to add to Rogar's Hall (and of course the original 15 quests, KK, and ROTWL from the classic era, though with the tweaks and alterations from Mike Gray's team that did the NA adaptation... though "The Maze" hasn't been seen in all these years).

Presumably this hypothetical "First Light Expansion" would feature the Dragon and the "Caverns" board, right? Otherwise it would be already compatible with the GS since it features 100% the equivalent components as both versions of the game system previously released.

I think there may be those who fear that if First Light IS successful we'll see a parallel split between expansions like this or else that existing expansions will be re-released in "cheaper" format with cardboard. Both of those ideas were shot down at GenCon.

While it's true anything could happen (some boss at Hasbro could swoop down with some "brilliant plan" and ruin it all overnight, heaven forbid), I was re-assured by those messages direct from Avalon Hill. You can listen to those interviews on my channel where they sound off, on the record, against those ideas.

Of course none of that stops us fans from creating new free content that uses the extra assets from First Light, that's kind of the whole point.

Let's face it, the only reason they're using cardboard standees in this release is to keep the price point LOW to attract more potential players. Given the choice, most will opt for 3d plastic miniatures instead of cardboard. Yes, there are those who will say "oh but they're so boring being just one color... and I don't want to paint them!" but I think that's a tiny minority. Most people who don't want to paint will be satisfied with the unpainted "unit colors" that HQ has had all these years. Even so, Renegade Game Studios has been offering both painted and unpainted versions of their HeroScape relaunch (granted, the original HeroScape had pre-painted figures, so there was already an expectation and nostalgia for that look, vs. HeroQuest which was always sold unpainted from the beginning).

The great thing about cardboard though is that fans who want to create more standees have a much easier time because they don't need a 3d printer to make minis that approach the quality of what's in the box. Anyone with any printer and some cardboard to use as backing and try their hand at it. So you can make standees for all the sets you own if you want, knock yourself out!

FL uses mostly standees to keep the complete box under $50 retail with the added bonus of the box itself not taking up so much shelf space, which makes it easier for a retail store like Target to stock it next to other games. It's not just about customers feeling "intimidated" by the size and price, but the store itself who values shelf space and moving product quickly.

The box size and price point are the factors here, so if you can imagine "First Light" being $50 on the shelf, you can just as easily imagine The Frozen Horror, the same version that was released two years ago, sitting next to it on the shelf for $45 (or less!). Hopefully that happens soon and who knows, maybe we'll see the big GS box on the shelf as well as the "Deluxe" version of what FL offers. And still there will be consumer choice for those who are not yet ready to take the plunge but just want to test the game out with the smaller box first to see if they like it and want more.

Don't get me wrong, I like SB's content, I would love to see him do more of those commercials for HQ, and more quests he's written. I'd love to read a behind the scenes scrapbook of his development process in some form or another. But another standee set? Probably not.

I think if they did something like that, it would probably be YET ANOTHER game system alternate, maybe starting as a different store exclusive, with another set of compatible quests, rather than a continuation of First Light that required it to play but lost compatibility with the regular GS. If that's what you meant, then I could imagine that. It doesn't divide the community, though it would annoy some fans who are trying to collect everything, though it would serve the function of attracting more new players to the game and satisfy the various demands for "exclusives" that these stores make. I kind of hope they don't do this though. I'd rather just see FL appear in other stores too and become available almost everywhere after awhile, then attract the other existing boxes to those stores once they realize HQ isn't just a flash in the pan but actually a great product that people want, so long as they know what it is!

[Vorimir]

Two weeks ago Amazon Spain opened the presale and I ordered mine. Today they just added spanish edition pictures and its titled "El despertar", like the "Awakening". First light and you get up.45 price point with a May 1 release date.

[SirRick]

I just ordered the jungle dice too, but the First Light ones look better. They are probably going to do this with every big expansion.

[LucaRocks]

I wonder if we will ever see smaller expansions after they do CoPD. If they do iCoPD that is.

[Kurgan]

I'm going to guess barring some leak or other, that we won't get anything official from Avalon Hill/Hasbro about Wizards of Morcar until May (First Light rollout in Europe will be completed, ModenaPlay will be the first big convention around that time). Maybe we would have heard about it sooner, but everything seems delayed (that's my speculation) to focus on making First Light the best roll out they can.

[Vorimir]

Yes, I think so. Maybe we will get WOM for Christmas 2025.