THE SPIRIT QUEEN'S TORMENT discussion

[wallydubbs]

We don't all need to go woke on account of orcs, they're not real!

But whose reality are we talking about? If men can become girls and girls could get fake penises maybe Hasbro believes orc are real and trying to be inclusive to them?

Thankfully some of us still have still have sanity.

[Nlinindoll]

As a "woke" member of this forum, can I respectively ask that we keep the politics off of this forum, stop the right-wing-signaling, and focus it back on the game we love?

And to avoid any confusion, allow me to define how I use the word "woke": I can recognize and see with my own eyes that there are systemic injustices in American society, and I believe we have the power and responsibility to address them and "do better." The Heroquest community is global and diverse, and not everyone here thinks the same.

Perhaps it was only meant as a joke, but some of the comments here are sure going a long way to make this Heroquest fan feel unwelcome here. I wonder how many people feel unwelcome at your gaming table?

[Kurgan]

Politics ruins gaming, that's what I believe.

[TheLastChaosWarrior]

As a "woke" member of this forum, can I respectively ask that we keep the politics off of this forum, stop the right-wing-signaling, and focus it back on the game we love?

And to avoid any confusion, allow me to define how I use the word "woke": I can recognize and see with my own eyes that there are systemic injustices in American society, and I believe we have the power and responsibility to address them and "do better." The Heroquest community is global and diverse, and not everyone here thinks the same.

Perhaps it was only meant as a joke, but some of the comments here are sure going a long way to make this Heroquest fan feel unwelcome here. I wonder how many people feel unwelcome at your gaming table?

I understand buddy, and I always try not to get into politics. My comment above was just asking the poster not to resort to name calling, I think virtue-signalling was the term used.
However, I will also say it's not a crime to offend someone. I find a million things a day that offend me, annoy me or I find distasteful or just wrong. Dogs, some of their selfish and arrogant owners, tattoos and piercings, R and B music to name but a few.
But as long as it doesn't directly affect me, or if my opinion is asked, I keep my opinions to myself. We will never all agree, and we shouldn't have to.
Was it the great example of a man Stephen Fry who once said. "Oh, have I offended you! So fu**ing what!!!!) The guy is a legend.

[cornixt]

That's not name-calling, it's describing the actions. It's weird how you only took offense at that and not the repeated competition over who was the most anti-woke and why it is bad.

The outrage over female representation as being political instead of it just being about addressing the imbalance, because companies are realising that women exist. People get so angry at having the bias taken out of something that has been so skewed for so long. They made up reasons in their head about why the bias was there but it was never actually true, sexism and racism was just baked into the system in a way that wasn't so obvious at the time unless you were the subject of it. People with political agendas and power want you to get angry at these changes that threaten their power, that's why they get people riled up about really minor things - it's a lot harder to run on facts when they are against you. I was trying to avoid this because it is not why I come to this forum, we should be talking about the game, not railing against imaginary attacks on culture that are ultimately small-fry.

And the silly thing is that nothing has actually changed in HeroQuest. The lore is near enough the same as when it was written, it all still conforms with the Warhammer world that existed at the time with changes only made to the names and places, we just have models specifically for female monsters and good orcs when we didn't before.

[Kurgan]

I feel like I've said my peace on this. I just went ahead and deleted it, because what's the use? I don't blame people for being afraid of what might happen in a franchise. But that's why we're paying attention. We're aware of how companies seek to manipulate their audiences, often in less than ethical ways. That doesn't mean I think it's happened with HeroQuest, but if you think it can't happen...

And it doesn't matter what one believes, if ever you're being told you're a bad person for not liking an entertainment product (especially as a cover for the quality), [or the opposite I suppose] consider you might be the victim of a psy op! None of these companies are owed our $$, they have to earn it.

Those who disagree with my politics are welcome precisely because we're not talking about my (or their) politics at the table!

[The Admiral]

Whoa! This took a sharp turn.

Firstly, I don't know why having an opinion that girls can't have a penis is right wing? I am not giving my opinion on the matter, but certainly wouldn't start to assign a political alignment, clearly negative in nature, based on peoples opinions on science. Not helpful in my opinion.

As to the Orc Bard, he came with the pack, and so we used him as a Special Henchman in this quest pack. He was useful, but won't get used again. The idea of an Orc dressed as a pirate stereotype, singing songs, reciting poetry, and telling tales of daring do and adventure to amuse and inspire his comrades does not appeal to me personally. There is a plan to have a good Half-Orc in a future quest, and we have played a Half-Orc hero in 'Destruction of the Tomes'.

[Markus Darwath]

As to the Orc Bard, he came with the pack, and so we used him as a Special Henchman in this quest pack. He was useful, but won't get used again. The idea of an Orc dressed as a pirate stereotype, singing songs, reciting poetry, and telling tales of daring do and adventure to amuse and inspire his comrades does not appeal to me personally.

What if he's not really an orc? Maybe the bard's baudy lyrics offended the wrong witch and he got cursed to be unable to find work, and thus he's now dungeon crawling instead of tavern singing?

Honestly, if someone finds something to be stupid and refuses to use it, that's their right. My take is simply that they may be needlessly limiting their own creativity.

As to the post that started this derailment... I know certain elements have made claims against the fantasy gaming community; specifically that orcs are "code" for black people and that their characterization as foul monsters to be killed on sight is some kind of "racist dog whistle." It's all pure BS and a case of some people making up "institutional racism" where it doesn't actually exist. I can understand where one might have a reaction of anger if they feel that certain things are being forced into our game in deference to such false and offensive accusations. Certainly Hasbro, as a company, has demonstrated in other areas a willingness to submit to such socio-political bullying, mostly from people who are neither gamers nor fantasy fans. And maybe at the corporate level that does play some role here, I don't know. What I do know is that businesses exist to make money, and expanding game options to be able to tell more than the same repetitive story is likely to expand appeal to a wider audience which leads to higher sales. As long as creativity and marketing motives make more sense than the other nonsense I will choose to view the additions in that light. Otherwise, we run a risk of falling into the adage, "the problem with engaging morons is they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

[The Admiral]

As to the Orc Bard, he came with the pack, and so we used him as a Special Henchman in this quest pack. He was useful, but won't get used again. The idea of an Orc dressed as a pirate stereotype, singing songs, reciting poetry, and telling tales of daring do and adventure to amuse and inspire his comrades does not appeal to me personally.

Honestly, if someone finds something to be stupid and refuses to use it, that's their right. My take is simply that they may be needlessly limiting their own creativity.

I literally said I did use him, but maybe your comment was not directed at me.

My Heroquest is rich and detailed with numerous story lines ongoing simultaneously across the heroquest world, with interweaving plots and many different Heroes. I use many different Special henchmen which are in effect ready made Heroes that act as allies for one off quests or maybe a series of quests. They may be re-occurring after going off somewhere on their own missions or maybe to train. e.g. Klaus the novice priest has now gone off to train as a full warrior priest and will return one day as a fully fledged Warrior Priest.

I could write whole books on the twists and adventures our Hero groups have taken. The Orc Bard (Sigill) just does not appeal to me, but I used him, he survived and he has gone back to Silvana. Maybe he will appear again one day.

[wallydubbs]

I agree, it's supposed to be simply logical that only men have dicks. But we can be called Nazis just for saying this.
HeroQuest is a game we all love, it's characters and storylines are fictional and we can all agree to disagree on some topics, such as the longevity of the spell Courage. The Zargon of the table will decide, we're not gonna scream, cry and riot because someone disagrees with that.

This woke individual was actually brave enough for addressing his allegiance (they tend to work in groups when verbally attacking people). He/she might feel attacked by some of us for simply disagreeing or living with logic. I tried to PM him/her trying to be apologetic as possible but I don't think they're interested in having a civil discussion. So why can't we just have a civil discussion and agree to disagree when it comes to Wokebness? Maybe because one side lack's logic?

There are a few illogical inconsistencies with HeroQuest but we carry on. The Orc Bard being illogical, who would bring a Bard into battle with them? The first time I heard there would be Bard I thought o e if his powers would be hyping the heroes to the Emperor or whomever and up their reward. It does seem odd that he's a pirate orc going into battle. Maybe that's why they're comfortable with him wielding a Battle Axe.