WIZARDS OF MORCAR discussion

[LucaRocks]

Oh man @wallydubbs, I think you are so right that it could very well end up being a small box expansion. Don't know why I didn't realize this before. I guess I forgot that there's only 8 minis in the original's box (4 mercs, 4 wizards). And only one major tile sheet.

If Hasbro wanted to cut corners, they definitely could go this route. And before anyone says "ATOH was a big box so WOM will be too" remember that ATOH was under a different team to AH. And now Hasbro seems to have more control over what the AH team do. I could see the suits totally saying let's just give them 4 original wizard sculpts and reuse the mercs from FH. It would make sense since we basically just got re-released content this year. And they would do big boxes for all new expansions.

Or who knows? Maybe they will only do small box expansions for HQ now on. Just a new hero, 4 new monsters minis (2 different types of new monsters) a tile and a couple of cards.

Would be sad if true. But it's all speculation. That's half the fun lol

[Kurgan]

Oh man @wallydubbs, I think you are so right that it could very well end up being a small box expansion. Don't know why I didn't realize this before. I guess I forgot that there's only 8 minis in the original's box (4 mercs, 4 wizards). And only one major tile sheet.

If Hasbro wanted to cut corners, they definitely could go this route. And before anyone says "ATOH was a big box so WOM will be too" remember that ATOH was under a different team to AH. And now Hasbro seems to have more control over what the AH team do. I could see the suits totally saying let's just give them 4 original wizard sculpts and reuse the mercs from FH. It would make sense since we basically just got re-released content this year. And they would do big boxes for all new expansions.

Or who knows? Maybe they will only do small box expansions for HQ now on. Just a new hero, 4 new monsters minis (2 different types of new monsters) a tile and a couple of cards.

Would be sad if true. But it's all speculation. That's half the fun lol

The original WOM didn't just include the four titular Wizards (and the three plastic wall bases in the same color) and a couple of mercenaries. There were actually a total of 12 red plastic mercenaries (yes, only 4 unique sculpts, but 12 bodies w/ 24 weapons). I have a vintage set (sans box, but the BGG seller assured me it was complete, and I have no reason to distrust him).

To quote the main site:

16 finely detailed Citadel Miniatures featuring:
4 new Sorcerer Figures, 12 Men-at-Arms Figures and 24 weapons.
1 Quest Book containing new rules and
5 new Quests
1 Card Sheet including:

1 Reference Chart,
3 Magical Barriers (Stone, Fire and Ice),
1 Earthquake Tile,
1 Lightning Tile,
1 Cloak of Darkness Tile,
4 Fireburst Tokens,
6 Blocked Square Markers,
4 Breached Wall Tiles.


24 Sorcerer Spell Cards,
9 new Wizard and Elf Spell Cards,
23 Men-at-Arms Cards,
8 new Treasure Cards.

The way Encarmine talked about it back when he was with the company, two years ago, he spoke as if we should expect a larger expansion box, and 10 quests, to put it on par with the previous bigger box expansions we'd already seen (which up to that point meant Frozen Horror, MOTM, and ROTDM). The larger price point from CoPD to me is not just a sign of tariffs price hikes (nobody was even talking about tariffs at the time those storefront listings appeared) but that there's more content in the box.

I doubt they will drastically scale it back, it's probably been finalized for some time by now in terms of physical assets. I'd expect no less than what was in the original, but probably more in line with what we saw from ATOH in terms of modifications and additions to make it feel like a special (rather than bare bones) release.

My disappointment with CoPD hasn't impacted my expectation for this one.

Yes, if they wanted to save money, they could re-use the sculpts already created for the Frozen Horror mercenaries (it would be fitting as the vintage sets also re-used the same sculpts) but here's hoping they're cast in red (they're good guys, after all) rather than boring gray. But who knows, AH cast the ogres in the last two sets in gray (gray as in "strong monster" I guess? thinking a bad guy in red would be too confusing for modern players? but then they asked us to use those gray ogres are mercenaries as well... but I guess that gray for both worked okay in Frozen Horror and the old convention of the chaos warlock in gray being able to be many different characters both good and bad, etc).

The box for classic WOM wasn't small, but like ATOH you could argue it was because those EU releases had to have boxes that were at least big enough to hold the sprues, while modern HQ doesn't generally put things on sprues anymore (other than those skulls in the GS).

Some questions of space do arise.... will they really include 12 mercenaries in the box? Frozen Horror saw them ditch the idea of interchangeable weapons on generic men-at-arms bodies in favor of having unique sculpts for each of the four types. As a result we saw 12 mercs in that box while the original FH only had 6 originally. So following that same logic, we should expect there to be 24 (!) mercs in the box PLUS the four wizards. That's a lot of minis... 28! But let's compare to previous releases:

FH had 21 character minis (2x Yeti, 2x Polar warbear, 3x ice gremlin, 1x female barbarian, 12 mercs, 1 HUGE frozen horror that took up four squares and was tall). Two special doors... And they filled the rest of the space with a pad of character sheets and 8 dice. Remember the plastic doors!

MOTM had a more modest 17 character minis (1x Archmage, 4x Ogres, 3x Giant Wolves, 4x elven warriors, 4x elven archers, 1x male elf), but it didn't stop with the two special doors. There was also a large amount of plastic furniture (no dice or pads this time). 14 Elven furniture pieces (4x Portcullis gates, 1x Tomb, 1x Fireplace, 2x Bookshelves, 1x throne, 1x Alchemist's Bench, 3x treasure chests, 1x weapons rack). Plus there were two plastic bases for the mirror cardboard. Several of those pieces were pretty good size in addition to some larger monsters (wolves were 2 square monsters, ogres were tall) and some of the furniture like the Tomb and bookcases were pretty big (bigger than their game system counterparts). The original EQP: MOTM had only 2 each of the elven warriors and archers, so again they were looking to fill space and keep the price point of $45.

ROTDM had 21 character minis (4x cultists, 1x guardian knight, 4x elven mercenaries, 2x assassins, 3x specters, 2x elven archers, 2x elven warriors, 2x magus guards, 1x dread wraith) but also the same sculpts of the entrance/exit doors as MOTM and 6 more pieces of elven furniture: 1x sorcerer's table, 1x arcane prison, 1x cupboard, 1x table, 2x elven statues male & female) plus two plastic bases for the mirror cardboard. Wraith was a 2 square monster. At least three of the furniture pieces were pretty big, bigger than their equivalents in the game system.

ATOH had 21 character minis (4x Ogres, 4x Orc archers, 4x goblin archers, 3x skeleton archers, 1x wolf ally, 2x druids, 1x Ogre Commander, 1x Ogre Champion, 1x Ogre Lord). of course three of those monsters were 2 squares and very tall and bulky (the regular Ogres weren't too small either though they were on standard size bases). Plus there were 7 furniture pieces: 4x stone doors, 2 large portcullis gates, 1x large ogre throne. All of these but the doors were pretty large size, equivalent to big furniture.

JoD had 21 character minis (4x blightweavers, 2x goblin archers, 2x skeleton archers, 3x skullblights, 1x goblin sorcerer, 2x raptors, 1x raptor ally, 1x saberfang ally, 2x explorers, 2x berserkers, 1x giant ape, 1x giant serpent, 1x blightcrawler) plus 6 terrain and furniture objects: 1x crystal, 1x fire, 2x pools, 1x statue, 1x treasure pile). Three of those monsters were of course larger size of 2 squares and fairly large generally.

So when it comes to these sets, the general trend seems to be about 20 character minis... plus more plastic. FH seems like the odd one out with the dice and pad to "pad out" the box. When it comes to the small box expansions (priced $34-35) KK & ROTWL had tiles plus monsters (repeated from the GS in the case of the plastic) while SQT & PoT had dice and at least one hero but no furniture or tiles.

First Light is a bigger box but stands alone as its own thing (for $50, and it is HEAVY) with cardboard monsters (except the two square dragon boss), cardboard furniture and plastic heroes. The only other plastic game pieces in that box are the clear bases for the standees and the dice.

CoPD seems the odd one out, but I wouldn't assume that WOM will look anything like it.

KK and ROTWL seem to be the only packs where they only put into the box things that were present in the classic era version (well, technically the NA edition didn't have full size cards for the new Artifacts or separate cards for the Alchemist Shop items as Equipment like the remake does, so even there they added "something"). Technically ROTWL back in the day did add a number of the tiny plastic skulls on the sprue with the monsters... not strictly needed for gameplay, just spares I guess if you lost some from the GS.

[LucaRocks]

Nice breakdown as always Kurgan! Hopefully they will reveal WOM at GenCon and we can be done speculating. Or is hoild say, out speculating will have more to go on at least lol

[LucaRocks]

You know what would be really cool? If they gave us new ELF spells. I suppose it's too late to do this for WOM though.

But think about it... 4 new elf spells would bump him up to 12. That's a multiple of both 3 and 4. So it would fill the 9th slot that we never got in MotM and still gives us a new spell group. At least unofficially as the Elf has no spell groups.

I allow my elf to use 4 spells per quest as I get OCD about allowing him 3 spells when
there's 8 to choose from. So another 4 kind of keeps along the same lines. And makes it different than the wizard.

Ashame we didn't get anything along these line in RotDM as it was a Mage sequel. But it would be awesome to get more down the line

[HispaZargon]

In Aliexpress website... may they be the Female Wizard Hero and new Male Scout Mercenary form WoM's remake?

Screenshot_20251018_160641_Facebook.jpg

[Kurgan]

I came here to say I was wrong, there were FOUR plastic wall bases included in the original (despite there only being three cardboard inserts for them) and saw this! Wow, thanks for sharing HispaZargon (and Merlin who shared it on HeroQuestFans discord, and whoever shared it on facebook originally). I am not supporting the IP infringing sale of bootleg HeroQuest figures on sites like AE of course, but...

Okay, I take back my original take. I was going to say, hey, AliExpress is interesting but often labels things inaccurately. I was going to say that other games like Talisman 5E (including the recent Alliances and Nemesis) have miniatures that look very much like Avalon Hill's HeroQuest. Betrayal 3E has numerous expansions but the theme is different (modern/movie monsters vs. medieval fantasy). and HeroScape AOE's miniatures are well known with a more modern, futuristic or steampunk theme.

Looking over the minis for those games, I don't see the two you're showing there, so they might be real. With the review embargo some people have the real thing and could confirm or deny this but probably won't because they risk breaking their agreement.

Tried sharpening and brightening up the image, doesn't reveal much...

The First Light heroes obviously are being bootlegged here, but the female Wizard and male Scout look very convincing. I don't think they look bad, but could they be better? Yes, I prefer Mercs that wear helmets but imitating the style of the previous human mercs and making them red seems fitting. The new Wizard more closely resembles the card and pose of the 1989 Wizard, which is great, rather than just looking like the values were tinkered with on the 2021 Haslab wizard to make it a female replacement rather than it could be a completely different character. I guess I was hoping for a more garish outfit but the original Wizard wasn't too fancy compared to some of the gaudy "traditional" Wizard designs in fantasy. That's left up to the painter to decide...

My take in video form https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbnnYDCnNZ8 Since creating it I agree with those (like Bohemyus and Virg) saying the pose is like a mix of the 1989/1990 character board Wizard art pose and the classic HeroQuest Wizard (specifically the cape). The scout is a very good match for the Frozen Horror just swapped to male and red instead of gray.

[SirRick]

Is it possible the figures are genuine? I think all the hasbro/avalon hill stuff is still made in china. The factory probably has lots of extras or slightly defective figures. Perhaps the factory or an employee is doing something they are not supposed to do. I’ve seen some from different games mixed in there before (like werewolf figures from some AH werewolf game).

It will not surprise me if the female wizard and the scout looking guy end up in the new WoM set.

[Vorimir]

The detailsnare really lame, or those are print tests or bootlegs... Or quality in HQ has dropped to the ground.
But its posible we get female wizard and new mercenaries in red hero color.

[wallydubbs]

Oh man @wallydubbs, I think you are so right that it could very well end up being a small box expansion. Don't know why I didn't realize this before. I guess I forgot that there's only 8 minis in the original's box (4 mercs, 4 wizards). And only one major tile sheet.

If Hasbro wanted to cut corners, they definitely could go this route. And before anyone says "ATOH was a big box so WOM will be too" remember that ATOH was under a different team to AH. And now Hasbro seems to have more control over what the AH team do. I could see the suits totally saying let's just give them 4 original wizard sculpts and reuse the mercs from FH. It would make sense since we basically just got re-released content this year. And they would do big boxes for all new expansions.

Or who knows? Maybe they will only do small box expansions for HQ now on. Just a new hero, 4 new monsters minis (2 different types of new monsters) a tile and a couple of cards.

Would be sad if true. But it's all speculation. That's half the fun lol

I'm feeling a little more hopeful regarding Wizards of Morcar and whilst the small expansions have been holding a max of 17 minis in it, the remake would most likely go into a bigger box now. There would probably be at least 12 mercenaries, the 4 evil wizards, maybe a new hero or two. But looking back through the original there were several Orc Archers that'll most likely be included. Part of me thinks the Wall of Fire, Ice & Stone will be plastic sculpts too. I think we all know they're not gonna leave it at 5 quests so there'll be something added, be it another mode of play or just additional quests.

I haven't been the most optimistic about Wizards of Morcar, but I'm feeling it's due time well soon find out. If we don't hear anything about it by the end of the month this is a lost cause. But I'm feeling oddly optimistic that they'll announce something more certain at Spiel Essen.

[Kurgan]

Dang, I'm never going to get any sleep... okay, hot take on the SECOND leak that was posted about this morning (and I missed it).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIz8PVAIcjo

More speculation...