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Oftkilted wrote:On a slightly more serious note, I’d recommend doing your play through of the Spirit’s Torment before making your decision. Because what happens in that quest is now part of the HeroQuest universe canon.
Good point on this... let's wait what lay behind the plot of this questbook.
cynthialee wrote:Things change. Orcs are created by Tolken and they were corrupted elf stock. Then D&D came around and made them Pig Men....then then then....all of our myths and stories are subject to revision and retcon. Also it is Hasbro property. They can do as they want and that is cannon suddenly.
I agree, we must be open minded! But I am a Barbarian and if I see an Orc, I'll slay it! Especially if it's screaming or singing something
Every cent received goes toward Ye Olde Inn's maintenance and allows us to continue providing the best resources for HeroQuest and Fantasy Gaming fans.
cynthialee wrote:Things change. Orcs are created by Tolken and they were corrupted elf stock. Then D&D came around and made them Pig Men....then then then....all of our myths and stories are subject to revision and retcon. Also it is Hasbro property. They can do as they want and that is cannon suddenly.
I agree, we must be open minded! But I am a Barbarian and if I see an Orc, I'll slay it! Especially if it's screaming or singing something
To be fair ... mind points aren’t a strong point for barbarians ... I mean seriously, look at the musculaaaarity.
Oftkilted wrote:Sarcasm: So you’re falling for the “human propaganda”? That ‘all monsters are evil’? And yet the monsters who haven’t left their homes are being hunted by a group of hardened killers who invaded their homes and the orcs, goblins and others are being murdered by them indiscriminately? /Sarcasm
On a slightly more serious note, I’d recommend doing your play through of the Spirit’s Torment before making your decision. Because what happens in that quest is now part of the HeroQuest universe canon.
Why? that "author" is one of the worst offenders, and sadly you are wrong. the exclusive quests to the Pulse Campaign are extras, not something everyone will get when the game makes it to retail so are not canon.
Also an attempt at an appeal to authority to me from some random website for a user being here longer, or appeal to seniority means nothing as I have been palying HeroQuest for over 30 years, so whoever this 9 year whatever is means absolutely nothing to me more than Teos that wrote the Spirit Torment garbage. So don't try that nonsense on someone over the age of 12, because i don't play the grade school playground bullying mess.
cornixt wrote:
Shadzar wrote:I have zero interest in the Diversity in D&D trying to inject themselves into HeroQuest because they failed to to force themselves into D&D.
Throughout the 50-year history of D&D, some of the peoples in the game—orcs and drow being two of the prime examples—have been characterized as monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world ethnic groups have been and continue to be denigrated.
We present orcs and drow in a new light in two of our most recent books, n those books, orcs and drow are just as morally and culturally complex as other peoples. We will continue that approach in future books, portraying all the peoples of D&D in relatable ways and making it clear that they are as free as humans to decide who they are and what they do.
When designing The Spirit Queen's Torment, I was inspired to create a narrative that was exciting to the players, creating interesting locations and unexpected situations. Just as importantly, I wanted the narrative to feel compelling as a story. I hope that players will be captivated by unraveling the mystery of the Spirit Queen and in deciding how the tale should end. Lastly, I wanted to help create the sense of a larger world, with ancient orc kingdoms that once mastered magic, and to give a new voice and perspective to the orcs as allies and heroes.
What these people are is failed actors wanting to use D&D for their drama and acting degrees that didnt come fruitful or their failed novel writing careers to be the next Critical Role and thus trying to force these things unto EVERYTHING they do, including now board games that are unrelated to D&D.
So as someone that has played HQ and D&D since the 80s, i am sick of these racists wanting to call everyone racist, because they enjoy a game and see monsters as fictional creatures, when they would rather look at a "black" person and think "There's an orc" be it in D&D, Warhammer, or Tolkien's works.
They are parasites: Teos, Shauna, and Nikki; all from that same modern D&D diversity crowd.
You are lucky that none of the new "heroes" isnt in a "combat wheelchair". Because...
Sara Thompson Seeing people is gross, you should see disabilities first.
No Sara is not a HeroQuest designer, but it is this same mindset that Teos and the others that were brought in from D&D that wished to turn their favorite modern D&D race/class combo into a hero that is the problem.
While HQ was loosely based on D&D, not WotC, but TSR, the original red box, not to be confused with 4e, where you have 6 classes: Fighter, Magic-user (wizard), cleric, halfling, dwarf, elf; the modern D&D shouldnt be a part of it, otherwise you should be playing D&D or the new "D&D in a box" fake attempt at HeroQuest, if they want to call it that.
Orc26 wrote:Is there a TL:DR of that post? (So many links and videos that I'm much to lazy to partake in.)
yeah
"In my day we did it the way my grandpappy did things and it was good enough..."
and
"You kids today fraggle everything up..."
As a player of HeroQuest going back to the very early 90's I welcome new and improved.
I hate nostalgia glasses they just lie and then keep you cemented in a dusty past.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss. If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose. If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself. ~Sun Tsu The art of War~
Orc26 wrote:Is there a TL:DR of that post? (So many links and videos that I'm much to lazy to partake in.)
Read the article on Diversity in D&D it should give you the basics, otherwise the fact that examples of these people being form D&D and what their current goals are would require more than was posted as there is 1000s of hours of videos and articles on just what has happened in D&D since the summer of 2020 began.
and those few are trying to do it to HeroQuest and everything, just like Star Wars, comics, TV, etc...
Orc26 wrote:Is there a TL:DR of that post? (So many links and videos that I'm much to lazy to partake in.)
yeah
"In my day we did it the way my grandpappy did things and it was good enough..."
and
"You kids today fraggle everything up..."
As a player of HeroQuest going back to the very early 90's I welcome new and improved.
I hate nostalgia glasses they just lie and then keep you cemented in a dusty past.
or maybe more to the point
If you are wanting to make something new then why use Star Wars to do it.
If you are wanting to make something new then why use Dungeons & Dragons to do it.
If you are wanting to make something new then why use HeroQuest to do it.
If you are wanting to make something new then why use SheRa to do it.
If you are wanting to make something new then why use ThunderCats to do it.
If you are wanting to make something new then why use DR Who to do it.
If you are wanting to make something new then why use Star Trek to do it.
Don't complain about "baggage" that comes with a "brand" if you wish to use that brand, just go make something new if you want to make something new, and stop relying on "brand recognition" to sell half-arsed tings that people wouldn't buy if it didn't have an established brand attached to it.
But they won't make anything new because like Daniel Kibblesmith, they see how quickly nobody wants their: Trailblazer, B Negative, Internet Gas boy, and Snowflake and Safespace of the New Warriors.
The new crowd dont buy new things because they arent already popular, they only want to take over things that are popular to change them.
I feel like I'm missing the point of your argument... Are you saying that Star Wars should have stopped at A New Hope? Are you saying that Planescape and the Forgotten Realms (and so much more) should have been left out of Dungeons and Dragons? Are you saying that there should have been no Return of the Witch Lord or Against the Ogre Horde (or any other expansion) for HQ? And so on...
I feel like this argument is drawing an arbitrary line in time and saying "Everything on that side of the line is bad because it is on that side of the line."
So just to bring this back on topic the orc bard isn't bad because it is NEW, the orc bard is bad because it isn't an archetype. And archetype is something the original and the reprint are doing with the core heroes, thus when the extra ones are not it has a disconnect. If they had replaced "The Barbarian" with "Keldor the Human Warrior" and the Dwarf with "Kevin the Dwarf Burgerler" then "Biff the Orc Bard" wouldn't be a problem anymore. (Then we could be arguing the pros and cons of archetypes verses named heroes...)
Orc26 wrote:[...]the orc bard isn't bad because it is NEW, the orc bard is bad because it isn't an archetype. And archetype is something the original and the reprint are doing with the core heroes, thus when the extra ones are not it has a disconnect. If they had replaced "The Barbarian" with "Keldor the Human Warrior" and the Dwarf with "Kevin the Dwarf Burgerler" then "Biff the Orc Bard" wouldn't be a problem anymore. (Then we could be arguing the pros and cons of archetypes verses named heroes...)
Why do you feel that the Orc Bard isn’t an archetype?
We are looking at archetype as “typical example of a person or thing”?
Are you looking at “bard” as the archetype? And they’ve pasted “Orc” onto it?
We currently have the “elf” and the “dwarf” and then a breakdown for the humans as “Wizard” and “Barbarian”.
Would the archetype you’re looking for be “Orc” or “Bard” as opposed to “Orc Bard” based on the prior examples of “elf” and “dwarf”?
That does bring in interesting thoughts on the “Trollslayer” character from the early white dwarf magazines. He’s both a “dwarf” and a “Trollslayer”.
The Halfling Warlock and the Orc Bard both feel like they are too specific to me. Or maybe I'm just projecting my love of Basic D&D onto my HeroQuest heroes...
Also my saying the orc bard is "BAD" was probably going too far. I don't feel like it fits. Honestly I haven't tested it so I have no clue if it is good or bad.
