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Hyrule HeroQuest

Discuss other HeroQuest expansion topics that do not fit into the above categories.

Hyrule HeroQuest

Postby Malcadon » November 26th, 2020, 8:30 pm

I have had the idea to make a Legend of Zelda-themed HeroQuest set for some time now... Like early or mid '90s!

Adventures in the land of Hyrule need not be limited to different incarnations of Link. Where Link is basically a Ranger-type hero (or Basic D&D's Fighter/Magic-User-race-as-a-class "Elf"), players are free to play different types of characters, from the living-tank Warrior-types, to glass-cannon Wizard-types, and anything in between.

At first, I tired to convert the video game play into the HQ mechanics, but I keep running into some technical issues. Converting monsters should not be difficult... on paper... but the damage in the video game is static and follows in an exponential flow. e.g. NES LoZ, damage from weapons and monsters are listed as 1/2, 1, 2 and 4, while armor, in the form of the blue and red magic rings, cut damage by 1/2 or 1/4, respectfully. LttP goes further by having damage as 1/4, 1/2, 1, 2, 4, 8 and 16. Zelda II on the other hand count everything (life point total, damage absorption, damage output, magic point total, and spell cost) in increments of 16.

If anything, such hard game mechanics should be a guideline then a hard rule for conversion. For example, the wooden (training) sword could work like a shortsword (2 Attack Dice), the white (steel) sword could work like a broadsword (3 Attack Dice). Moblins are easy. They can be Orcs with spears. Octorok should not be that hard ether -- like a skeleton with a sling. Both assumes the common "red" types -- "blue" types should have 2 BP.

Moblin
Image
They are bulldog-like goblins who live in forests. They attack by throwing spears and are slow. They are a little bit meaner than Octoroks.
MovementAttack DiceDefense DiceBody PointsMind Points
63212
Notes: When not adjacent to a Hero, a Moblin can throw a spear at a Hero it can see, attacking with 2 combat dice.


Octorok
Image
A type of land-dwelling octopus that lives in swamps, lakes and forests. They are mean, and spits out rocks at pray.
MovementAttack DiceDefense DiceBody PointsMind Points
82211
Notes: When not adjacent to a Hero, an Octorok can spit a rock at a Hero it can see, attacking with 1 combat die.


OK, lets try something harder. . .

Here I have to nurf their BP a bit so they wont kill all the Heroes. I rather mix them as a single type, treating it as a common orange-colored Wizzrobe, thus their movement options. Red ones would be more powerful, with more spells, while a white Wizzrobe should be a boss encounter. So far, I'm still thinking over their method of spell casting...

Wizzrobe
Image
The Masters of Movement. They appear here and there, letting out magic spells by surprise. They are pretty strong. Watch out!
MovementAttack DiceDefense DiceBody PointsMind Points
62234
Notes: Wizzrobes can move through walls and furniture. Instead of moving, they can teleport to a square they can "see". They can cast X spells.


With this, I wanted to reflect the way it can only be hurt with an arrow to the eye. This assumes that it is the common "red" Gohma. The super-rare and powerful Blue Gohma would require more hit to kill it out right (4) and has more Defense Dice (6).

Gohma
Image
The super-huge crab that lives in the labyrinths. Its hard shell will repulse any attack. Attack its weak point with the right weapon.
MovementAttack DiceDefense DiceBody PointsMind Points
43431
Notes: The only way to kill a Gohma is to inflict three hits on a single attack or it wont take any damage. When not adjacent to a Hero, a Gohma can fire a ball of fire at a Hero it can see, attacking with 2 combat dice with only base Defense Dice.


Body Points is a bit complicated. In HQ, BP are static but you recover health fairly frequently with healing spells and Potions of Healing found in the Treasure Deck. Monsters (in the US version) generally have 1-3 BPs, rarely getting more than 4 after many games. In Zelda, your Life Meter grows as you find Heart Containers, and you recover life from monster drops or under old pottery. Likewise, you'll encounter tougher monsters as adventures progress.

I'm of two minds for allowing Heroes to gain additional Body Points and Mind Points. As cool as it is to be able to killer harder enemies, base monsters become less and less relevant. I personally do not recommend Zelda II-styled Experience Points. (I tried that long ago in HQ, but it really bog-down the game with paperwork and mindless hack-n-slash, and the game-balance was greatly thrown off after a few games!) Advancement rules should be simple. Much like Artifacts/Quest Treasure, only one should be given out after a major Quest -- an alternative to pure gold coin Rupee rewards. The player can spend it to raise ether Body or Mind by one point, or to gain a new spell, special skill or combat maneuver.

One iconic element in the LoZ games is the way shields work. In the first two games, you can block Octorok rocks, Moblin spears and Iron Knuckle swords with your regular shield, but in order to block Zola fireballs or Daira axes, you needed a magic shield -- be it an item you needed to buy, or a spell you cast on yourself. In Link to the Past, the Mirror Shield can block beam attacks.

Much like how spells in HQ that inflict damage are not effected by armor in any way, I can see magical armor or protection effects being able to add to the resistance rolls. That is, when you get attacked by Fireball, instead of just rolling 2 red dice and taking one less damage for each 5 or 6 rolled, you make a defense roll based on you Base Defense Dice (usually 2), and if you have armor or artifacts that can resist fire, you add that to your Base DD score. I can also see how a powerful attack, like a Daira's axe or a Guma's spiced ball-and-chain, destroy shields outright if they roll enough Skulls in a single attack.

Magic is whole other issue. While I would rather not add a whole new layer, or bulky sub-set, to the already simple rule set, experimenting is also fun. The LoZ games treat magic in two ways: Magic item effects (wands, canes, medallions, etc.) or spells (fire, shield, life, fairy, "spell", etc.). Where magic meters are found in Zelda II and LttP, there is an obscure Zelda-clone on the old Sega Master System called Golden Axe Warrior that had elemental-based spells with magic pots used like Hearts but for spell-use, that can be used in this way.

While HeroQuest handles spells like D&D, were you "fire and forget" until the next adventure, I was thinking of a new sub-system where spell-casters have a poll of Spell Points, with each spell costing SP to cast (with a minimum cost listed), and you roll Combat Dice equal to your Mind Points to reduce the cost of casting a spell for each White Shield rolled. For example, a Wizard with 8 SP cast Fireball on an Octorok. Lets say that the spell costs 4 SP (min. 1 SP). The Wizard rolled 6 dice and gets 2 White Shields, knocking the spell cost down to 2 SP, so the Wizard is down to 6 SP, and gets to eat polbo รก feira.

This would require most spells to have high SP costs. Although, some spells can have the caster continue to roll each turn to maintain the effect, but at a lower cost and minimum until broken or the caster runs out of SP. For example, the same Wizard (down to 6 SP) cast Fairy on himself. This costs 5 SP (min. 1 SP), and 3 SP each turn (min. 0 SP). On the first turn, he gets 3 White Shields, spending only 2 SP. On the second turn, he gets 3 again, losing nothing this turn. On the third turn, he gets one White Shield, and now down to 2 SP. He cant push it a fourth turn as he dose not have enough SP to cast it and the spell ends outright.

The same approach can be used on magic items that grant spell-effects when used. Or this system can get ignored for something less variable and complicated.

I'm still mulling over this. I might add or change things. If anyone has anymore ideas to throw down, then go ahead. While my interest is more on line with the old 8-bit and 16-bit games, all output is welcome.


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Re: Hyrule HeroQuest

Postby Davane » November 27th, 2020, 9:39 am

I when for a slightly different approach on the same theme - check out this thread: http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5517.

I find it easier to focus on relative values rather than hard values, and go with what feels right. I found that it's easier to simple replace Orcs as Moblins, use Goblins for critters like Gels and Keese, Fimir for enemies like Eyegores. I used a death mist for the Bubbles.

In the end, I think any LoZ-based HQ work will be a customised series of Quests, and thus it's better to look at what you are trying to convert and do your best to represent that instead.
"The HeroQuest World is loosely based on the Warhammer World which is the copyright of Games Workshop and is used by their permission."

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Re: Hyrule HeroQuest

Postby torilen » November 27th, 2020, 10:03 am

Nice conversion. I don't know much about the actual mechanics and stats behind the
game play of Legend of Zelda, but looks like you've done good research and thinking.


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