Dragon Strike Quest pack

[Nephew of Mentor]

Troll stats have been fixed. They were completely incorrect, as I must somehow have input Teraptus' stats entirely. Good catch guys. I still wish to know if anyone has suggestions for adapting the DS heroes so that they can be played as additional alternative heroes in the HQ world. I have the following ideas.

Warrior
Attack Dice: 3
Defend Dice:2(+1 for stock equipment)
BP:8
MP:2

Equipment: Chainmail, broadsword.

Wizard, Mage
Attack Dice: 1
Defend Dice: 2
BP:4
MP:6

Equipment: Staff, Dagger, 9 DS spells.

Elf
Attack Dice:2spear/bow?
Defend Dice:2
BP:5
MP:5

Equipment: Leather armor, bow, spear, three DS spells

Dwarf
Attack Dice:4
Defend Dice:2+1(for stock equipment)
BP:7
MP: 5

Equipment: Battle-axe, Chainmail

Thief
Attack Dice:1
Defend Dice:2
BP:6
MP:2

Equipment: Dagger, leather armor, lockpick set
to pick locks: Roll one red die. 4 or higher is a success.
to pick pockets: Roll one red die, success on 5 or 6. One Hp counterattack on failure.

The thief is the only really new one, what do you think?

[Daedalus]

This looks cool. But I think something needs to be done about the font size in the Notes section.

At a glance without seeing the original DS stats, I see you strayed from the HQ formula of the sum of Body Points and Mind Points equalling 10. The Dwarf totals 12, while the Thief totals only 8. Doesn't seem fair.

[Nephew of Mentor]

I was unaware of that formula, and I think I made an error with the warrior anyhow, haha. The dwarf, however, has the stats he has partially because DS starts him off with additional equipment, unlike the barebones HQ heroes To me, this is okay since this quest is meant to come some time after the original quest pack, so it seems reasonable for the dwarf to have updated equipment(though I will check in the next couple days to make sure I recorded the stats correctly, as I may have a typo or two). I will have to think about the thief, but I can't be too certain what to do without play testing.

As far as the notes section(do you mean in the cards or the quest?) The quest map is actually only a temporary mock up, so the font and everything is certainly fluid. Just curious, what is the problem with the font size? Is it unreadable when printed? I was unsure if it would be useable.

Thanks again for all your feedback, and I welcome more if you have it, it is very valuable.

[Nephew of Mentor]

Oh, wait. Body points and mind points. Duh moment for me. Yeah, I wanted to vary the characters a little, but I have no idea if they will stay that way.

[Daedalus]

Don't worry about the notes, I was just commenting about the screenshot in this thread.

Toco's website shows he's 33% into his Allied Heroquest version of Terror in the Dark.

I don't like the way Sneak Attack cards balanced in Dragon Strike. Five d12 attacks vs. the Warrior's unlimited d12 attacks. Oh, wait, the Thief can pick locks (yeah) and maybe steal and not get whacked for it. I'm not impressed.

[Nephew of Mentor]

Yeah, he's certainly not the best character around for exactly the reasons you mention. However, I don't see much better alternatives. Without adding new dynamics I fear that the characters could get stale, and the difference between one hero and the next would be negligible. It should make a difference that, in dragon strike, characters seem to only deal 1 point of damage per attack. Those sneak attacks would be more devastating in the HQ system(assuming it hits of course).

[Daedalus]

Good point about the HQ system allowing for more damage. I think you'll need to give the Thief bonus dice, either as a +X dice or as a second, immediate attack against a monster. (I imagine the idea has already struck you.) If you limit the Thief to just Wizard weapons, this won't amount to much, however. I believe the Thief should be allowed to use any weapon that may be used with a Shield. That way he could dish out 5 or 6 combat dice of damage with his limited ability.

Maybe a Thief would need to pay extra for such weapons, as his training with them is more specialized. For example, the Thief could buy a Shortsword for 150 gold coins and use it's standard 2 combat dice. But if he paid and additional 150 gold coins he could use his Sneak Attack ability with it for 3 combat dice. If he paid another additional 150 gold coins then he could max out with it, rolling 4 combat dice of damage while using Sneak Attack. Paying a total of 1000 gold coins would gain a Thief a Broadsword or Longsword attack that rolls 6 combat dice with a Sneak Attack.

Clearly, if you go this route, then you must somehow limit the frequency of a Sneak Attack.

[Nephew of Mentor]

Woops! I wasn't perfectly clear, haha. I didn't mean to limit the Thief quite as much as the wizard. I figure he could use the short sword, spear, hand axe, and maybe even pole-arm(an addition to come from the sorasil pack) but not the longsword, broadsword, and battle-axe. Of course, he would be able to equip artifact equivalents of the short sword, spear, and hand axe. I think these should still give him a powerful attack when combined with sneak attacks(please do chime in if you don't think it is enough, this is good feedback you are providing). In addition, I would limit him so that he cannot equip plate mail, and I was flirting with the idea of limiting the shield, but I am not sure.Luckily for the thief, DS has a few artifacts that can only be used by the elf and thief.

I am still curious. Do you think his low MP makes him unfairly vulnerable? Let me know, thanks.

[Daedalus]

Okay, this grew way too long, but here it is:

Thief
Attack Dice:1
Defend Dice:2
BP:6
MP:2

Equipment: Dagger, leather armor, lockpick set
to pick locks: Roll one red die. 4 or higher is a success.
to pick pockets: Roll one red die, success on 5 or 6. One Hp counterattack on failure.

For comparison, the Thief stats from Dragonstrike:

Hit Points: 6
Speed: 6
Atack: d8 (dagger)
Armor Class: 5 (leather armor)
Save vs. Magic: d8
Find/Disarm Traps: d12
Find Secret Passages: d10
Feat of Dexterity: d12
Feat of Strength: d8
Equipment: Lock-picking tools, rope, bullwhip, grappling hook, food, mirror

Hit Points and Speed convert with no problem, as you already noted.

Limiting the Thief to just a Dagger, Hand Axe, and Spear could work, but maybe you should make the Hand Axe and Spear available as equipment cards for North American players. Personally, I don't like the idea of a Thief swinging a Pole-arm (Halberd). The Spear is already large enough for the sneak. Can a Thief buy a Crossbow? I'd want one if I was playing this weak-combat Hero.

Hopefully, the Sneak Attack ability should cover the limitations of weaker weapons. Do you plan to use the (5) Sneak Attack cards? As you don't want a Thief to use larger weapons, I'd extend my idea about buying training with extra Sneak-attack combat dice to triple the damage potential of the original weapon. A Sneak Attack card could contain the following text:

Nobody is faster with the blade than you are. This card lets you roll an extra combat die when making an adjacent attack with your weapon. For every 150 gold coins you spend to increase your training with Sneak Attack, you may roll an extra Attack Die. You may roll no more than triple the normal Attack Dice of your weapon when using the Sneak Attack ability. Discard after one attack.

A Thief would start out with a 2-Attack Dice Sneak Attack using the Dagger. For 150 gold coins he could then either buy a Shortsword or an extra Attack Die for the Sneak Attack ability. Assume he buys a Shortsword. He then spends another 150 gc (300 gc total) for 4 Attack Dice using a Shortsword with Sneak Attack; next, a further 150 gc (450 gc total) for 5 Attack Dice using the Shortsword with Sneak Attack; and finally, another 150 gc (600 gc total) purchases training for 6 Attack Dice using a Shortsword with Sneak Attack.

Note that Sneak Attack can't be used with a ranged or diagonal attack, as the Thief needs to get up close and personal. A 6 Attack Dice attack can also be achieved by a Hero with a Battle Axe and either casting a Courage spell on the Hero or drinking a Strength potion. You could simply allow 2 bonus, static Attack Dice and leave the Thief's best offense equal to a Warrior's default offense with a Battle Axe--nice and simple. However, I'm left with the concern that most of the Theif's non-sneak attacks will prove ineffectual as monsters get tougher--that's why other combat Heroes can upgrade with better armor and weapons. (The Wizard also suffers from this problem.) My thinking is that the Thief should get a few superior, peak attacks to let him shine (like the Wizard), but average out with other Heroes throughout a Quest.

If you feel 6 Attack Dice is just too overpowered, you could amend the the pertaining text of the Sneak Attack card to "For an extra 150 gold coins you may increase your training with Sneak Attack and roll an additional two Attack Dice instead of one. For a futher 300 gold coins you may instead roll an additional three Attack Dice."

I could understand how paying for training upgrades could be unappealing. Another way to adjust Sneak Attack is stick with a basic two bonus Attack Dice, but increase the number of uses of the cards.

Nobody is faster with the blade than you are. This card lets you roll an extra two combat dice when making an adjacent attack with your weapon. If you roll at least 1 Black Shield, retain this card. Otherwise, discard it.

If my math is correct, a 3 Attack Dice Sneak Attack would see 5 cards extend to about 9 or 10. A 4 Attack Sneak Attack would increase to about 13 uses of the cards (Here my trials averaged only 10, so I have a math problem. My guess is 3 AD=8 or 9 uses, 4 AD=11 uses). This can actually swing quite a bit, as two of my 3-Attack Dice trials resulted in 14 and 15 uses of the cards, while 3 trials resulted in just 6 uses. I feel this luck factor can well enough model opportunities in combat while providing some fun.

Finally, you can just abandon the Sneak Attack cards and allow a Sneak attack bonus when an ally is opposite and adjacent to the monster the Thief is attacking. Or maybe just adjacent. You'd still need one card.

Nobody is faster with the blade than you are. This card lets you roll an extra two combat dice when making an adjacent attack with your weapon against a monster if an ally is also adjacent to and opposite of the same monster. Do not discard.

Just a thought off the top of my head, but maybe you could add a restriction for the Shield on the Sneak Attack cards stating You may not be use a Shield on the same turn that you use this ability. I think a Thief is normally going to need the extra Defend Die, as he only has 6 Body Points. If you feel it is still too much, maybe the Thief is limited to a Buckler, usable just once a turn.

Another thing I think is missing from the Thief is the high feat of dexterity roll. You could put this into Hero Quest by allowing the Thief to be an expert treasure-hunter. He can discard a Hazard Treasure Card without effect if he rolls anything but a Black Shield on a combat die. This would mean printing this rule on another card, or adding it to the Hero Card. Maybe drop the pick pockets ability, I don't know how important it is in the adventures.

You're the Thief: nimble as a cat, as clever as a fox. Only a Thief can make Sneak Attacks, pick locks, and search an active monster for treasure. You also may avoid Hazards. To do so, you must avoid rolling a Black Shield on a combat die.

Of course, you don't need to put all this on the card if you plan to have the Thief rules for picking locks and pockets somewhere else. I like using the same dice as Disarming a Trap, the combat die: To Pick Locks, you must roll anything but a Skull on a combat die. You could also use it for Pick Pockets--you must aviod rolling anything but a Black Shield on 2 combat dice.

As for the Mind Points, I'd increase them to 3. That's even with the other expert Hero, the Dwarf. 6 Body/ 3 Mind isn't too bad if the Thief's abilities are enough of a perk. The BP/MP formula is really more what you'd call a guideline than an actual rule...

Keep in mind these are all just grist for the mill. Take what you like, reject what doesn't work for you.

[Nephew of Mentor]

I like all of this advice. I like your idea for the shield(though, now that I think about it, maybe the shield should be unrestricted), and also the idea of retaining sneak attacks. I had one more thought regarding the sneak attacks though. What if sneak attack cards are discarded only if you do not have an ally "flanking" the opponent? It is important that sneak attacks can be used without other characters, because some of the DS quests actually have the thief working alone. Another thought is having different types of sneak attacks. Just a thought.

I appreciate all the feedback as it is certainly fleshing out the character. However, I would love to know how it all works if someone plays through a quest. Since graduating college I am not often around people who like this type of game.