Some Redesign Notes on Combat, Damage, Healing, and Wounds

[RECIVS]

In the end, as with any board game, AHQ is a mesh of what we understand as spirit and matter connected by a creator being with a certain intention, and my approach is about revealing the aspects of that “reality” through the powers of the mind, beyond mere observation and apprehension. Does this sound familiar?

That sounds pretty much like a mystery, Pythagorean-like cult, I know.

[Evil Frog Wizard]

In the end, as with any board game, AHQ is a mesh of what we understand as spirit and matter connected by a creator being with a certain intention, and my approach is about revealing the aspects of that “reality” through the powers of the mind, beyond mere observation and apprehension. Does this sound familiar?

That sounds pretty much like a mystery, Pythagorean-like cult, I know.

For this, if looking for stuff outside of AHQ to better understand some of the intent. I highly recommend looking into OD&D (Referred to as LLB, or LLB D&D, which stands for Little Brown Books). As well as the game Chainmail. There is very, very clearly the DNA of both of these games into AHQ. I'm not sure how helpful it would be. But I definitely think if you could break past the archaic nature of these old systems, you would definitely find it interesting. It's actually the reason I find AHQ so fascinating despite never playing it.



The combat system of AHQ has so much similarities to the 'man to man' combat system in chainmail (Seen above). In this combat system of chainmail (Chainmail has 3 separate combat systems) you roll 2d6 and attempt to roll the target number or higher to score a 'hit' with each hit doing one damage. As you level up, you gain multiple attacks equal to how many 'men' you represent.

And I see so much of this in AHQ's strength and toughness system.

And this is just one example. The entire procedure of play is almost 1 to 1 how original dungeons and dragons was played. I don't think people realize just how 'board gamey' original dungeons and dragons was. It was basically a board game + 'couldn't I do that?'.

Anyway, random food for thought.

[Evil Frog Wizard]

Level	Title	Fighting Capability	Fantasy Table Tier
1	Veteran	Man + 1	Normal Man
2	Warrior	2 Men	Normal Man
3	Swordsman	3 Men	Normal Man
4	Hero	Hero (4 Men)	Hero
5	Swashbuckler	Hero + 1 (5 Men)	Hero + 1
6	Myrmidon	Hero + 1 (6 Men)	Hero + 1
7	Champion	Superhero - 1 (7 Men)	Superhero - 1
8	Superhero	Superhero (8 Men)	Superhero
9	Lord	Superhero + 1 (9 Men)	Superhero + 1
10	Lord (10th)	Superhero + 1 (10 Men)	Superhero + 1

This is the chart for the 'fighting man' or fighter for chainmail+ d&d. You can start to see the similarities. Very clearly its been 'retooled'. But the DNA is there.

But the base is there, there also seems to be a concerted effort yo keep character beneath the 'super hero' tier (if you think of 2 wounds per man, the highest health you can have is equal to 6 men). Note that it's commonly observed that the 'game feel' changes weather you are a 'normal man', 'hero' or 'super hero'.

Edit: I misunderstood this. I was think 12 wound max. If I understand the system correctly, the max wounds you can have is 7.. so 3 1/2 men, which is actually below the rank of 'hero', so it's more acurate to say there is a concerted effort to keep player characters within the realm of 'normal men'.

[RECIVS]

For this, if looking for stuff outside of AHQ to better understand some of the intent. I highly recommend looking into OD&D (Referred to as LLB, or LLB D&D, which stands for Little Brown Books). As well as the game Chainmail. There is very, very clearly the DNA of both of these games into AHQ. I'm not sure how helpful it would be. But I definitely think if you could break past the archaic nature of these old systems, you would definitely find it interesting. It's actually the reason I find AHQ so fascinating despite never playing it.

The combat system of AHQ has so much similarities to the 'man to man' combat system in chainmail (Seen above). In this combat system of chainmail (Chainmail has 3 separate combat systems) you roll 2d6 and attempt to roll the target number or higher to score a 'hit' with each hit doing one damage. As you level up, you gain multiple attacks equal to how many 'men' you represent.

And I see so much of this in AHQ's strength and toughness system.

I'm curious how those systems dealt with bottlenecks. It's always been a problem and never supposed to be the norm in this genre, as far as I understand.

I don't think people realize just how 'board gamey' original dungeons and dragons was. It was basically a board game + 'couldn't I do that?'.

I know! In fact, that's important context for our purposes here, and it's why I tried to explain it in a post above. As mentioned, AHQ belongs to that tradition, with all that implies.

Anyway, random food for thought.

Thank you! I appreciate it.

But the base is there, there also seems to be a concerted effort yo keep character beneath the 'super hero' tier (if you think of 2 wounds per man, the highest health you can have is equal to 6 men). Note that it's commonly observed that the 'game feel' changes weather you are a 'normal man', 'hero' or 'super hero'.

Edit: I misunderstood this. I was think 12 wound max. If I understand the system correctly, the max wounds you can have is 7.. so 3 1/2 men, which is actually below the rank of 'hero', so it's more acurate to say there is a concerted effort to keep player characters within the realm of 'normal men'.

And it takes luck, time, and effort to have 7 wounds to begin with. Even with that, in-combat healing remains almost impossible in room encounters if doorways are not exploited. See what I wrote above:

I understand that the supposed sense of realism intended for AHQ is more about the adventurers being “as fragile as in real life” in relation to the weapons and armor used in the game, but we have shown how such an approach restricts the gameplay options to the point of making combat repetitive and creating more problems than it solves, unfortunately.

[Evil Frog Wizard]

For this, if looking for stuff outside of AHQ to better understand some of the intent. I highly recommend looking into OD&D (Referred to as LLB, or LLB D&D, which stands for Little Brown Books). As well as the game Chainmail. There is very, very clearly the DNA of both of these games into AHQ. I'm not sure how helpful it would be. But I definitely think if you could break past the archaic nature of these old systems, you would definitely find it interesting. It's actually the reason I find AHQ so fascinating despite never playing it.

The combat system of AHQ has so much similarities to the 'man to man' combat system in chainmail (Seen above). In this combat system of chainmail (Chainmail has 3 separate combat systems) you roll 2d6 and attempt to roll the target number or higher to score a 'hit' with each hit doing one damage. As you level up, you gain multiple attacks equal to how many 'men' you represent.

And I see so much of this in AHQ's strength and toughness system.

I'm curious how those systems dealt with bottlenecks. It's always been a problem and never supposed to be the norm in this genre, as far as I understand.

The short answer, as best as I understand it, is they weren't a problem because of the added 'couldn't I do that?' inherent to the game. I could break it down point by point. But there would be a lot and it's kinda off subject. To sum it up, 'couldn't I do that?' also has the corresponding effect of 'couldn't they do that?'. Couldn't they shoot you with arrows? Couldn't they call for reinforcements? Couldn't they just slam the door and brace it so you can't get to them or their treasure? Doors were also considered heavy, by the way. They weighed about 100lbs and would slam shut if not held open.


As for something more practical. I came up with something that might suit your needs, but because of my lack of actual experience I can't attest to weather it's a good idea or not. Assuming the tactics table is being used, consider the following:

Hand to Hand Weapons Only	Hand to Hand + Ranged Weapons
1 Reinforcements 2-6 Move and Attack 7-12 Attack and Move	1 Reinforcements 2-5 Ranged Attack 6-9 Move and Attack 10-12 Attack and Move

Added Rule: If Most Heroes are not in the same room as monsters, roll the d12 twice and take lower result.

This turns it the choice of 'camping the door' into a risk vs reward choice versus completely removing the tactic all together (again, you could just use double doors). Sure, you can camp the door, buuuuuutttt now you have increased chance of them shooting arrows, getting reinforcements, Or shuffling out so you can't just accumulate hits on one unit.

Maybe something like this will help some.

[RECIVS]

The short answer, as best as I understand it, is they weren't a problem because of the added 'couldn't I do that?' inherent to the game. I could break it down point by point. But there would be a lot and it's kinda off subject. To sum it up, 'couldn't I do that?' also has the corresponding effect of 'couldn't they do that?'. Couldn't they shoot you with arrows? Couldn't they call for reinforcements? Couldn't they just slam the door and brace it so you can't get to them or their treasure? Doors were also considered heavy, by the way. They weighed about 100lbs and would slam shut if not held open.

And the same holds true in AHQ—and also in more modern combat-oriented dungeon crawlers for that matter; you add options to fix combat bottlenecks, not to structure your games around them. I mean, players back then didn't start their sessions saying "boy, we hope we get more combat bottlenecks this time!" did they? It was more like, "how do we prevent combat bottlenecks from happening too often this time?"

Modern players don't seem too fond of combat bottlenecks in dungeon crawlers either; I posted some links above where people treat it as an obvious, game-breaking problem. It's an obvious problem to me too, not an ideal feature that comes to mind when one thinks of a game of this type. For example, if you were to design a tactical dungeon crawler (like AHQ) for commercial purposes, would you make doorway fighting the rule or the exception? The answer is obvious by mere definition alone, isn't it?

By the way, AHQ is a dumbed-down version of D&D, and people nowadays don't seem to realize that when they say AHQ is "complicated." It's somewhat more advanced than HQ for sure, as it's supposed to be, but what serious dungeon crawler isn't, after all? Anyway, AHQ was pretty much a kids game to old-school dungeon delvers when it came out.

As for something more practical. I came up with something that might suit your needs, but because of my lack of actual experience I can't attest to weather it's a good idea or not. Assuming the tactics table is being used, consider the following:

Hand to Hand Weapons Only	Hand to Hand + Ranged Weapons
1 Reinforcements 2-6 Move and Attack 7-12 Attack and Move	1 Reinforcements 2-5 Ranged Attack 6-9 Move and Attack 10-12 Attack and Move

Added Rule: If Most Heroes are not in the same room as monsters, roll the d12 twice and take lower result.

This turns it the choice of 'camping the door' into a risk vs reward choice versus completely removing the tactic all together (again, you could just use double doors). Sure, you can camp the door, buuuuuutttt now you have increased chance of them shooting arrows, getting reinforcements, Or shuffling out so you can't just accumulate hits on one unit.

Maybe something like this will help some.

Thank you. I have my own system that I've been using for more than a decade with good results; I believe I posted a link above. As I said, this is more about provoking a paradigm shift than making people play AHQ in a certain way. It’s more about visualizing the whole context as objectively as possible to determine whether “realism” and (misplaced) nostalgia do AHQ any favor or justice, considering its essence, the tradition it belongs to, the intent behind it, and its potential as a sandbox game, for the reasons already posted; that's what this is mainly about.

As I've said in other threads, it's not about what we like or prefer in a dungeon crawler; it's not about whether we are okay with the vanilla version of AHQ either. That has nothing to do with the subject of this thread, actually, for the simple reason that merely stating our preferences here will take us nowhere! Preferences can be blind or uninformed, and they can change on a whim; that's not the reality I'm trying to reveal here. This is about AHQ, not about us! It's about analyzing a general approach to fixing it in accordance with its true nature, not specific game mechanics. As with everything, assessing the nature of AHQ is the first logical step toward fixing it.

As I also mentioned above, please let me know if I'm falling victim to confirmation bias myself.