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The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Discuss new Rules for HeroQuest.

Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby Anderas » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 3:31am

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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby The Road Warrior » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 7:18am

Anderas wrote:Yes, he is weak because of 4 Body Points. If he heals himself, he has a maximum of 7, as he can't wait for zero to spend his spell.
It happened to me that the wizard was full, and searching for treasures. After all, if you're full, what can happen to you?.

:wizard: :redheart: :redheart: :redheart: :redheart:
Wandering Monster. :skeleton:


:skeleton: :skull: :skull:
:wizard: :blackshield: :skull:
:wizard: :redheart: :redheart: :greyheart: :greyheart:

Morcars Turn.
:skeleton: :skull: :skull:
:wizard: :skull: :skull:
:wizard: :greyheart: :greyheart: :greyheart: :greyheart:

Yes, he is weak because of 4 BP.


This can happen to any Hero especially in the first couple of quests when they are all rolling 2 or 3 defence dice. I wouldn't think twice about searching for treasure if I was a Barbarian with 4 Body points. I would think twice if I was the last Hero to play before Morcar's turn.

GimmeYerGold wrote:Looking over this old post: viewtopic.php?f=143&t=941&hilit=buffing+the+wizard ...a few of the big differences between the NA and UK editions are that the UK staff has 2 attack dice instead of 1 (like in the NA edition,) UK has cloak and bracers purchasable by the wizard, and finally, the artifact cards... I wasn't aware that in the UK version there are no restrictions for the Wizard using artifacts (Borin's Armor, Orc's Bane, Spirit Blade, the works...) and not that these pics from the sticker pack that Sjeng scanned aren't "canon," BUT check at our magic boy workin' it in Borin's Armor:

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I think the EU wizard is a far better balanced member of the group because he can take on the general dungeon fodder, saving his spells for the stronger monsters (or leaving them to his stronger companions). The artefacts allow him to improve on his 2 combat dice attack but the group must decide between them who has which artefact so the wizard cannot guarantee having Borin's armour and the Spirit Blade. in my humble opinion Orc's Bane is more use to the Wizard than any other Hero. The NA game was just plain cruel to the Wizard

sajungzak wrote:So... The circlet I posted links to on the first page of this thread allows the wizard to cast each spell twice and choose either +1 MP or +1 BP. It is a set of artifacts that can be found throughout the Gathering Storm.
In the UK it is called Karlen's Circlet. Adapting it for the US quest book, I changed the name to Wardoz's Circlet.

What do you think? Is this op?


I only think this is OP when it comes to casting healing spells twice. 8 extra Body points is a lot extra, maybe too much but this is one if the artefacts I wanted to try out sometime.

cynthialee wrote:I really like assigning the Elf Spells to the Elf and just giving all the Elemental Spells to the Wizard.


Another one of my personal favourites. I still need to take a proper look through the Elf spells to pick which one's to give to the Elf.
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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby Gold Bearer » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 8:45am

These are the magician skills I'm using for my custom heroes and a few other ideas. They'd work as artefacts as well. This is the link to the combined spells and spell components: viewtopic.php?f=203&t=2608&p=44982#p44982

1. Combined spells, they kick arse. I should make getting the cards done for these a higher priority than the hero and monster cards I think.

2. Spell components. Allow the wizard to buy components than when used in the right combination allow him to cast spells without discarding them. Maybe rule that he can only use components to cast the spells that he has and add an artefact that allows him to use components to cast spells that he doesn't have as well.

3. Fate points, like in AHQ but just for the wizard. They allow him to reroll a dice or force the GM to. I give him two per quest that don't carry over between quests.

4. Allow him to cast a spell but discard another. Nominate a spell that you'd like to discard in place of the spell that's being cast and roll a combat dice. On a skull the spell that is cast is discarded as normal. On a white shield the nominated spell is disarded in place of the spell that's cast. On a black shield both spells are discarded. The skulls and white shields could be switched to make it more effective.

For this one I've given all the element spells a power level (one L1, L2 and L3 in each set) and ruled that you can only discard a different spell if it's the same or greater power. You could give him 18 power points to use each quest so that it's the equivalent of one of each spell.

5. Roll two combat dice when you cast a spell, 2 white shields = keep the spell, 1 skull + 1 white shield = can discard any of your spells in place of the one cast, 2 skulls = cast as normal, 1 black shield + 1 white shield = the spell fails but is kept, 1 skull + 1 black shield = the spell fails and is discarded, 2 black shields = the spell fails drastically and all your remaining spells are discarded, but you can only ever keep a cast spell once per spell.

When you roll the combat dice for a cast spell 2 white shields = keep the spell and can cast the same spell again this turn, 1 skull + 1 white shield = keep the spell, 2 skulls = can discard any of your spells in place of the one cast, 1 black shield + 1 white shield = cast as normal, 1 skull + 1 black shield = the spell fails but is kept, 2 black shields = the spell fails and is discarded.

When you roll the combat dice for a cast spell 2 white shields = keep the spell and can cast again this turn, 1 skull + 1 white shield = keep the spell and can cast the same spell again this turn, 2 skulls = keep the spell, 1 black shield + 1 white shield = can discard any of your spells in place of the one cast, 1 skull + 1 black shield = cast as normal, 2 black shields = the spell fails but is kept.

When you roll the combat dice for a cast spell 2 white shields = cast without using an action and keep the spell, 1 skull + 1 white shield = keep the spell and can cast again this turn, 2 skulls = keep the spell and can cast the same spell again this turn, 1 black shield + 1 white shield = keep the spell, 1 skull + 1 black shield = can discard any of your spells in place of the one cast, 2 black shields = cast as normal.

Which version is used could be based on MP.

6. Allow him to cast without using an action but still only cast one spell per turn, or allow him to give up his movement instead of his other action to cast, or allow him to cast an extra spell if he doesn't move or moves at no more than half rate or one extra spell at half rate and two if he doesn't move.

7. Allow him to move, cast, and then carry on his movement.

8. Let him telepathically cast enemy spells if he's in the same room or corridor.

9. Let him summon elementals by giving up two spells of that element.

10. Give him an optional dispel attempt against an enemy spell cast in the same room or corridor that can be used once per turn, on a skull it's unaffected, a white shield dispels it and a black shield dispels it and the spell is discarded.

11. Allow him to use a shortsword and/or spear or any one handed weapon and if you're playing US rules allow him to use any artefacts.

12. Give him access to all seven spell sets (or eight including the AtOH chaos spells) or one less if the elf has one but only allow him to use nine (or however many per quest).

13. Give him an artefact that gives him two or three random chaos spells every quest, or the three from AtOH.

14. Make some cool artefacts inspired by other games. The skull wand of kaloth from warhammer springs to mind. Roll one combat dice to make a melee attack, if you roll a skull then whether it's defended or not the target dies if it fails to roll under it's MP on one dice. Sounds OP but it's a melee attack so if it's used against a powerful monster and you don't kill it you're in trouble.

15. It's a secret. I'll post it when it doesn't spoil anything in my p-b-p game.

Make Morcar the final boss and/or Mentor an npc and give them all of these. :)
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

Expanded Combined Spells: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4296

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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby whitebeard » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 9:18am

Anderas wrote:Yes, he is weak because of 4 BP.


I re-read the rules on hero death and I had never noticed the healing spell save clause. The summary states that you are dead unless you have a potion or a healing spell. However, the spell caster can only use the healing spell to save himself if he performed no other actions on his turn… I've always let him use his action from his next turn. Perhaps this is the equalizing rule change you are looking for?

My objective as the EWP is not to kill the players, but to make it feel like they barely escaped with their lives. I have managed to almost kill them in the last two quests, so my current party will be starting Quest 7 with no healing potions. Death is always right around the corner! One of them will die sooner or later, I'm not convinced it will be the wizard.

Anyways, any other hero with 4 body points is not thought of as being in imminent danger of death. So I would still argue that the problem is not the body points it is the armor factor and not being able to quickly kill monsters on your own. The dwarf does not hide at the back of the party when he has 4 BP.

Great discussion!


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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby Gold Bearer » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 9:34am

cynthialee wrote:And the only risk the Barbarian has of loosing his battle Axe is when they meet that once in awhile Chaos sorcerer with a Rust Spell. And how often is that?
Schmidt wrote:
The high mage from WoM has it. ;)

whitebeard wrote:I re-read the rules on hero death and I had never noticed the healing spell save clause. The summary states that you are dead unless you have a potion or a healing spell. However, the spell caster can only use the healing spell to save himself if he performed no other actions on his turn… I've always let him use his action from his next turn. Perhaps this is the equalizing rule change you are looking for?
That's only in the US rules and it's very stupid. You shouldn't be able to do anything after you die, because you're dead. That rule, allowing anyone to use scrolls and being able to disarm any trap in sight are the three silliest rules in the game.

whitebeard wrote:My objective as the EWP is not to kill the players, but to make it feel like they barely escaped with their lives.
But that can't happen unless you're actually trying your hardest to kill them. No I'm not going to start this again. :)
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

Expanded Combined Spells: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4296

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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby sajungzak » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 10:59am

Gold Bearer wrote:That's only in the US rules and it's very stupid. You shouldn't be able to do anything after you die, because you're dead. That rule, allowing anyone to use scrolls and being able to disarm any trap in sight are the three silliest rules in the game.


Ah, but the actual point of death is undefined in the real world. In movies, when a main character dies, there is often enough time for a prolonged death scene. 0bp does not mean instant death, it means that death is imminent. If it is the dying heroes turn they could still have an action left for a healing spell before the end of their turn.(ie if they fell victim to a trap. If they got a bad treasure card, it is their own fault.) You must remember that a turn based game is the method used to play out what would be happening simultaneously. If it is Zargon's turn, the heroes next action can be used out of order to avoid removing the figure from the board prematurely. Essentialy, a hero is dead if he starts his turn with 0bp.
* edit* As kk pointed out, makes more sense that he is dead if he has 0bp at the beginning of Zargon's turn.

Scrolls should be used to balance the tougher quests. If the heroes find the quests a breeze with their equipment upgrades, you can edit the quest to leave some, or all, of them out.

You have to be on the same tile as the trap in order to disarm it. In fact, you have to clearly state, "I am moving onto this trap with the intention to disarm it."
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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby knightkrawler » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 11:16am

sajungzak wrote:
Gold Bearer wrote:That's only in the US rules and it's very stupid. You shouldn't be able to do anything after you die, because you're dead. That rule, allowing anyone to use scrolls and being able to disarm any trap in sight are the three silliest rules in the game.


Ah, but the actual point of death is undefined in the real world. In movies, when a main character dies, there is often enough time for a prolonged death scene. 0bp does not mean instant death, it means that death is imminent. If it is the dying heroes turn they could still have an action left for a healing spell before the end of their turn.(ie if they fell victim to a trap. If they got a bad treasure card, it is their own fault.) If it is Zargon's turn, then you must remember that a turn based game is the method used to play out what would be happening simultaneously. The heroes next action can be used out of order to avoid removing the figure from the board prematurely. Essentialy, a hero is dead if he starts his turn with 0bp.


I agree. Interpretation goes like this: if at the beginning of the EWP's turn you have 0 BP, you are dead. Your figure is taken from the board.
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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby whitebeard » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 11:25am

Gold Bearer wrote:That's only in the US rules and it's very stupid. You shouldn't be able to do anything after you die, because you're dead. That rule, allowing anyone to use scrolls and being able to disarm any trap in sight are the three silliest rules in the game.


Then we can only agree to disagree. Sajungzak has it exactly… I try not to confuse game mechanics with the story telling and adventure.

I have yet to encounter spell scrolls and the traps bit is disturbing. these other points are agreed :)


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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby The Road Warrior » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 11:46am

It's an EU/NA rule discrepancy. I grew up with th EU dead is dead rule and prefer it from the point of view that killing heroes can be difficult enough as is, without giving them the ability to save themselves when on 0BP. But the recent discussion on poison is starting to make me reconsider this.

The same with traps. The EU dwarf can automatically disarm traps at no risk whatsoever and spear traps are disarmed whenever they are found by any hero when searching. The NA rules for traps are much better and I adopted them as a house rule as soon as I found this site. |_P

As for spell scrolls, I am undecided but if magic is the only weapon a wizard has it feels a little wrong to allow any hero to use them.
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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby sajungzak » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 11:48am

whitebeard wrote:the traps bit is disturbing. these other points are agreed :)


"How a Hero* disarms a Trap with a Tool Kit
(* Does not apply to the Dwarf)
:greyorb:As a Hero, before you move, you must announce that you are moving onto the trap square to attempt to disarm and remove the trap.


How the Dwarf disarms a Trap
...
:greyorb:Before you move, you must announce that you are moving onto the trap square to attempt to disarm and remove the trap."

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