• Advertisement

Make a small donation to Ye Olde Inn!

Donate via Paypal

Every cent received goes toward Ye Olde Inn's maintenance and allows us to continue providing the best resources for HeroQuest and Fantasy Gaming fans.

The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Discuss new Rules for HeroQuest.

Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby cynthialee » December 6th, 2014, 11:47 am

this idea one spell is 'more powerful' than an other spell is part of the male mentality that fails in the long run...
How is Genie more powerful than Courage?
Genie gets a total of 5 dice, one time.
If I cast courage on my barbarian friend who has say a 4 dice attack he now attacks with 6 dice until he sees no enemies.

Courage is probably the most powerful spell in the list when looked at through the lens of 'power'.

When you look at the various spells through the lens of effect then you can truly master spells in a game.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic.
cynthialee

Swordsman
Swordsman
 
Posts: 1848
Images: 4
Joined: September 27th, 2011, 10:56 am
Location: the forests of Washington State
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Champion Group Member

Advertisement

Make a small donation to Ye Olde Inn!

Donate via Paypal

Every cent received goes toward Ye Olde Inn's maintenance and allows us to continue providing the best resources for HeroQuest and Fantasy Gaming fans.

Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby Gold Bearer » December 7th, 2014, 11:38 am

Courage was a bad example if he was talking about the US spells but he might have meant Euro courage, it's exactly the same as a potion of strength. The US courage is the most powerful spell apart from the healing spells but ball of flame is weak and fire of wrath is pathetic. A shot from a crossbow is much better than fire of wrath and generally better than ball of flame. Euro fire of wrath can be used anywhere on the baord (so can genie) and they both use black shields to defend instead of a 5 or 6.

Some spells are more powerful than others no matter how you look at it. US fire of wrath vs US ball of flame. The healing spells are the most powerful. Giving them points for the wizard to use some more than others does work.

A nice simple way to improve the wizard would be to give him the best versions of each spell by merging the Euro and US spells.
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

Upcast/Overcast/Combined Spells + New Combined Fusion Spells: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=7219

General Rules Including Element Effects & Dynamic Turn Order: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=7089


Rewards:
Grin's Stone Map Hosted a Play-by-Post game. Played a turn in five (5) Play-by-Post games. Created a Hot Topic. Slain a measly Goblin! Slaughtered an Orc! Killed a mighty Fimir! Destroyed a Zombie! Shattered a Skeleton! Unravelled a Mummy! Crushed a powerful Chaos Warrior! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
Gold Bearer

Exiled
Exiled
 
Posts: 1792
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 4:21 pm
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby cynthialee » December 7th, 2014, 12:53 pm

I like that idea of taking the best of both.

Just came up with a new idea in the last few seconds....

Potential House Rule:
A Wizard Hero may recover any previously cast spell by taking an action to grasp the magic via force instead of study. To do this the Player spends a Mind Point on the Hero and the EWP rolls 2 combat dice. For each skull rolled the Wizard takes a point of damage and he receives the spell card back. If the EWP rolls 2 black shields the Wizard does not receive the spell and the Mind Point is still spent. There is no ill effect on the Wizard if the EWP rolls all shields, and the spell card is returned to the Wizard.

So basically you Spend a Mind point and risk 2 Body to receive a single Spell back. This could actually kill a Wizard, so the need to do this will have to be severe for the Player to take this risk on their Hero.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic.
cynthialee

Swordsman
Swordsman
 
Posts: 1848
Images: 4
Joined: September 27th, 2011, 10:56 am
Location: the forests of Washington State
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby Anderas » December 12th, 2014, 4:21 am

I think this is difficult. The Wizard has the highest risk of dying.
Why not introduce mechanics that everybody has to use and relies on mind points?
Monsters which attack the mind, riddles thqt are to he solved through rolling on mind values.


Rewards:
Hosted a Play-by-Post game. Played a turn in a Play-by-Post game. Created a Hot Topic. Participated in four (4) Miniature Exchanges. Participated in three (3) Miniature Exchanges. Zealot Miniatures: Twisting Catacombs Kickstarter Backer Destroyed a Zombie! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
Anderas
NOT Andreas!

Polar Warbear
Polar Warbear
 
Posts: 3397
Images: 73
Joined: September 20th, 2014, 7:02 am
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group Member Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member
Champion Group Member

Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby Daedalus » January 6th, 2015, 3:24 am

cynthialee wrote:...When we consider that after some time the heroes all tend to buy the best equipment they can get we end up with every hero save the Wizard capable of 3 dice ranged attacks (crossbows) and at least 3 dice melee, the Wizard is very flawed.

Part of this inequality lies in the unlimited shots of the crossbow. This can be partially addressed through a limited supply of ammunition that must be resupplied at a cost. This leaves comparatively more money for other Wizard upgrades such as potions, mercenaries, and daggers (I like recoverable 50-gold daggers that are lost on a black shield.)

cynthialee wrote:Even when we get to the point where the heroes are acquiring Artifacts, the Mage does not come up to the same power level of the rest of the party when we stay within the rules. Why play the Wizard when the rest of the group seriously out powers you by the time you get through a quest book?

Adding artifacts is the micro-expansion prefered way to house-rule exceptions that are easily referenced. Slev's cantrip thread inspired me to write up this Artifact Card for an early power up:
Wizard's Circlet

This mystical headband enables recovery
of cast spells. It can be worn only by the
Wizard. A Spell Card may be flipped rather
than discarded when cast. On his next turn,
the Wizard then uses a cast-a-spell action
and rolls a combat die. If a white shield is
rolled, flip the card back over and turn it
to the right for reuse. Discard the spell if
the roll fails or when it is cast again.

The Wizard's Circlet guarantees casting the 9 chosen spells of the published rules but averages 13 cast spells without requiring any extra Spell Cards. Quest 1, The Trial, or Quest 7, The Lost Wizard, could be a good place to find it. With another spell group artifact, the Book of Wizardry, the Wizard's Circlet's benefits could increase later to a min. of 12 spells with an avg. of 17, or a min. of 15 spells with an avg. of 20-21:
Book of Wizardry

Within the pages of this heavy tome lie
secrets of magical power. It can be used
only by the Wizard, enabling him to start
a Quest with as many spell groups as his
Mind score less three. The spells of a
group may be chosen twice and turned to
the left. Such spells are turned upright
when first cast rather than discarded.

Wizards of Morcar spells could be used, or the elemental spells of the Main Game System could simply be doubled up.
The Book of Wizardry combines well with the Talisman of Lore and more fully matches the Parchment Text featuring that artifact: "...which would enhance the wearer's understanding of magic."

Another Quest, The Lost Wizard, provides the fluff for a seemingly useless Mind-score buff that comes into its own with the Book of Wizardry:
Wardoz's Experiment

Reading these papers and spending 50 gold
coins on materials enables the Wizard to
increase his Mind score by one for a Quest.
Experimenting with this chaotic magic is
risky, however. Roll one red die and
reduce your Mind Points by the result. If
your Mind Points are reduced to 0 you
become a Zombie and the papers are lost.

Without a Psychic Recovery scroll or even a Potion of Restoration, the loss of Mind Points might outweigh the benefit of extra spells gained in combination with the Book of Wizardry. Such is the price paid by those seeking a quick route to power through Chaos. Wardoz would tell you as much if he could still speak.

cynthialee wrote:My fix over the years has been to use Mind Checks in the game whenever possible.

Yes, Mind should matter. I go with Lore checks, which is a single die roll. A Barbarian and Dwarf must reroll a success, while a Wizard may reroll a failure. I plan a revised Hero Card with these exceptions on the front along with one or two other Hero-specific exceptions including Might rerolls. The Quest Notes can easily set the roll needed for success. I also have been working on other cards that call for such rolls. I'm strongly considering a Lore check for using a scroll, as well.

cynthialee wrote:...*Issue the Wizard three random potions before the start of every dungeon. These are considered to be crafted by the Wizard in his off time or gifts from Mentor. I would not allow the banking of potions as it could get to be a game rape in the wrong player’s hands. If there are left over potions, then the hero starts the game with the potions unused from last mission plus a random potion for any blank potion spaces. The reason for random is that this rule assumes the Wizard is collecting various potion ingredients as he goes about his day. If you find the ingredients for potion X but not Y then you make potion X.

Neat idea. To simplify record keeping which could be misremembered, I'd give such potions a shelf life of the current Quest. Each new Quest would see a lot of three new, random potions.
..
UNCLE ZARGON
Image
WANTS.. YOU


Rewards:
Wizard of Zargon Group Member Grin's Stone Map Played a turn in five (5) Play-by-Post games. Created a Hot Topic. Slain a measly Goblin! Slaughtered an Orc! Killed a mighty Fimir! Shattered a Skeleton! Destroyed a Zombie! Unravelled a Mummy!Crushed a powerful Chaos Warrior! Smashed a massive Gargoyle! Encountered all eight (8) Game System monsters. Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
Editor-in-Chief
Daedalus
Dread Ruleslawyer

Wizard
Wizard
 
Posts: 5309
Images: 14
Joined: May 9th, 2011, 2:31 pm
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group MemberScribes Group MemberAdventurers' Guild Group MemberArtists Group MemberChampion Group Member

Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby Jafazo » January 6th, 2015, 3:26 am

Blabla I never made it past the first line
Unless you specify your version I'm going by the US rules.
User avatar
Jafazo

Ogre Champion
Ogre Champion
 
Posts: 199
Joined: September 1st, 2014, 3:52 pm
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby Gold Bearer » January 6th, 2015, 7:50 am

Using the three WoM spell sets the wizard could get five and the elf could get two and lose the ability to use the battle axe and plate armour. Wizard picks one, elf, picks one, wizard picks two, elf picks one, wizard gets the last two. That way it doesn't contradict the standard order.

Jafazo wrote:Blabla I never made it past the first line
Yet you took the time to post a spiteful comment :?:
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

Upcast/Overcast/Combined Spells + New Combined Fusion Spells: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=7219

General Rules Including Element Effects & Dynamic Turn Order: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=7089


Rewards:
Grin's Stone Map Hosted a Play-by-Post game. Played a turn in five (5) Play-by-Post games. Created a Hot Topic. Slain a measly Goblin! Slaughtered an Orc! Killed a mighty Fimir! Destroyed a Zombie! Shattered a Skeleton! Unravelled a Mummy! Crushed a powerful Chaos Warrior! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
Gold Bearer

Exiled
Exiled
 
Posts: 1792
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 4:21 pm
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby cynthialee » January 6th, 2015, 1:05 pm

I like the shelf life idea which honestly never has crossed my mind. That itself would prevent the Wizard from stacking a pile of potions. Would also cure the too many potions in a party issue. Sometimes heroes get an easy time of things by the way the dice fall, just dumb luck, but if the heroes walked into the dungeon with a supply of potions and then found a bunch more and nobody was harmed enough to drink a potion or there was no need for other potions...They could end with a very large amount of them. Imagine if they have a couple of easy dungeon crawls in a row.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic.
cynthialee

Swordsman
Swordsman
 
Posts: 1848
Images: 4
Joined: September 27th, 2011, 10:56 am
Location: the forests of Washington State
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby cynthialee » January 6th, 2015, 1:11 pm

Also I really like the idea of the circlet and would like to offer this higher level version for end game:

The Wizards Crown of Arcane Power
After a spell is cast the spell card is placed on the table face down in front of the wizard player.
When the player starts their next turn, they pick up any spell cards that are face up. Then the player will turn face up any face down spell cards. After these actions the player starts their wizard turn as normal. {Basically the cards are tapped when cast, and are not recoverable for a couple turns.}
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic.
cynthialee

Swordsman
Swordsman
 
Posts: 1848
Images: 4
Joined: September 27th, 2011, 10:56 am
Location: the forests of Washington State
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby Daedalus » January 6th, 2015, 6:11 pm

Jafazo wrote:Blabla I never made it past the first line

Snarky comments don't contribute constructively to the discussion. Please remember to keep things friendly at the Inn.
..
UNCLE ZARGON
Image
WANTS.. YOU


Rewards:
Wizard of Zargon Group Member Grin's Stone Map Played a turn in five (5) Play-by-Post games. Created a Hot Topic. Slain a measly Goblin! Slaughtered an Orc! Killed a mighty Fimir! Shattered a Skeleton! Destroyed a Zombie! Unravelled a Mummy!Crushed a powerful Chaos Warrior! Smashed a massive Gargoyle! Encountered all eight (8) Game System monsters. Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
Editor-in-Chief
Daedalus
Dread Ruleslawyer

Wizard
Wizard
 
Posts: 5309
Images: 14
Joined: May 9th, 2011, 2:31 pm
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group MemberScribes Group MemberAdventurers' Guild Group MemberArtists Group MemberChampion Group Member

PreviousNext

Return to Rules

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests