HQ: Heroes & Villains (knightkrawler) - DISCUSSION

[knightkrawler]

All of you are right. Thanks, will edit.

[Gold Bearer]

Could definitely do with a trim. I haven't read the recent posts and I wrote this before you edited your opening post but I couldn't post it it because I was banned (unfairly for not acting like a saint in the face of extreme provocation).


The rules in this book are the base rules, the rules on the cards and quest notes take prioroty over them.

There is also a glossary in back of this book containing all the terms and expressions that have a specific in-game meaning. They are written in italic in main section of the rules the rules.

In some rule texts you will find italized terms, called attributes. Some cards list one or several attributes seperated by dashes under their title or in their descriptive text. If item X has an effect on attribute Y it only has an effect on other items that have attribute Y. The glossary lists each attribute.

One player assumes the role of Morcar, who pits his forces against the other players and has control of all the villans. Only he knows where the treasures are and how exactly missions can be accomplished. Houserules (rules the players write themselves) may expand considerably on this role and the RPG potential of HQ: Heroes & Villains. This role may be swapped among players between quests but not when a quest is repeated, as is the case when all heroes are killed during the same quest.

The Morcar player (from here on simply 'Morcar') functions as the sole referee in rule desputes and other ambiguities that might crop up from time to time, and therefore has to have a very tight grip on all the rules in this book, all the group's houserules and all optional rules agreed upon. These optional rules are presented in this rulebook as well as the modular campaign books and are distinguished by frames and coloured backgrounds. Either Morcar alone or all the players decide before each new quest which optional rules they wish to use. There is a printable table that you can use to keep track of which optional rules are used in each quest.

The other players play the role of heroes, one from each of the four classes: Warrior, Specialist, Adept, and Spellcaster. Within each of these classes are several different heroes, each with unique stat levels and abilities.

The ideal number of players is five, however if less players are available all four hero classes should still be used with one or more players taking the role of multiple heroes. If there's only one player then that player simply controls all four heroes. If there are two hero players then each controls two heroes. If there are three hero players then one hero is shared by the players and is controlled by each player in turn with control switching to the next player between each quest. If there's more than four hero players then the first four heroes chosen must be from different classes but others can be chosen freely.


c) Stats

Each character has a set of stats representing their level of strength or expertise in a certain area. The stats of the heroes are found on their corresponding rolesheet and the stats of the villains are found in their corresponding villain card and the villain chart.

Attack: The attack stat is the number of combat dice a character rolls to resolve their attack. This can be modified, for instance by an Equipment card.

Defence: The defence stat is the number of combat dice a character rolls to resolve their defence. This can be modified, for instance by an Equipment card.

Body: The body stat is the number of body points a character can lose before they die. At the start of a quest, each hero takes a value of body point tokens equal to that number. Their current body points cannot exceed their starting body points except in cases where their maximum body points have been raised. Each time a hero loses a number of body points they discard that number of tokens.

Mind: The mind stat is the number of mind points a character can lose before they die. At the start of a quest, each hero takes a value of mind point tokens equal to that number. Their current mind points cannot exceed their starting mind points except in cases where their maximum body points have been raised. Each time a hero loses a number of mind points they discard that number of tokens.

Movement: Heroes roll two standard dice to determine their movement score while villains have a fixed number of movement points that they may spend per turn.


d) Death

A hero is killed if they lose their last body or mind point token and the figure is placed face down on the square it last occupied. That square may be freely moved through but a character can't end their movement there. If a hero starts their next turn with 0 body or mind points their figure is taken from the gameboard and their player is now free to make sandwiches and chili dips.

The gold coins in possession of the dead hero are immediately discarded. Their Artefact and Equipment cards however are not yet lost. They are freely divided among all heroes currently in the same room or corridor section where the hero died. If no hero is in that room or corridor they are discarded immediately.

A villain is killed when they lose their last body or mind point and their figure is taken from the gameboard immediately. Note that those villains with 0 starting mind points can only be killed by losing body points.

The best way for Morcar to keep track of villains' body and mind points is to use the Villain Tracker sheet found in the appendices and numbering all individual figures of each type. When utilized this way, there will be an 'Ork 1', an 'Ork 2', a 'Revenant 1', and so on, connecting each individual villain figure to an entry in the Tracker.

OPTIONAL: Dead Villain Markers
You can use these markers for looting corpses. Put a marker on the square last occupied by a dead villain. It is no obstacle to movement and a move can even end on these squares. There are many monster looting houserules to be found on yeoldeinn.com.

[knightkrawler]

Thank you, I will go through the last couple edits and suggestions on the weekend and probably implement several.
Again, I appreciate any opinion and help, any comment, and any grammarnazism ( , Count Mohawk).

[Big Bene]

to occupy?

You'd think so, but "occupies" here is actually being used as a modifier on "the square", which makes it a pseudo-adjective rather than a proper verb. (It answers the question of "which square?" rather than "what does this square do?".)

(Sorry for derailing your thread, KK)

I would have thought that the term "verb" is a lexical classification, so a given word (like "to occupy") is a verb regardles of use. The term to describe the syntactic function would be "predicate". So, a verb is normally used as a predicate in syntactical context, but can be also used as a modifier (or an other syntactic class, as an infinitive used as a noun phrase). But I'm no expert in English grammer.

[knightkrawler]

I'm bumping this thread because I'll be on vacation at the end of October. Maybe another discussion or string of questions and ideas ensues.
I might be able to finish the basic rulebook (plus maybe the first questbook) during that vacation.

[Anderas]

After trying to reread:
Maybe you reduce the copy and paste parts of your rules to one part only, so that one has not to read two times what you just copied. Then you point out the differences only. That way it gets a little bit more readable.


Then, did you think about the Symbol Sets of Slev, Count Mohawk, Lemmeron?
They are a real advantage - they work like Keywords, but the ones you use the most often, you just shorten to a symbol. That makes space free on the cards and they're fast to read. Used in moderate numbers they still follow the concept of Hero Quest - all the rules you need, you have them in your hands except the three base rules everybody knows.

[knightkrawler]

I did think about icons for keywords and game mechanics, yes, and I decided on using them. It would make everything easier and retaining the keywords is what keeps the whole thing a monstrous thing to read. I'll put them everywhere, probably only in the glossary and for first use in rulebook text referring to the term.

[Daedalus]

@knightkrawler,
My comments aren't exactly timely, so I don't know if they are still wanted. I could tackle new sections if these sort of mainly grammar suggestions are deemed worthwhile. However, your work holds up well and I could readily skip over these small points (sometimes opinions) and instead focus on comments regarding content (such as the Equipment Card availability comment) and organization (the last comment about hero players.) Or I could take a pass on it all if your are done with this.

I started with your second main post:

2 Setting Up the Game

a) Board, Screen & Questbook

...The questbook is only for your eyes! Open the questbook Trials & Tribulations where the quest to be played is. On the top half of the left page you see the map, the rest of the double page encompasses the introduction and the notes....

Notes: Read this part for yourself and try to memorize as much of it as possible before you start the quest....

I'd change "Open the questbook Trials & Tribulations where the quest to be played is." > Open the questbook Trials & Tribulations to the quest to be played.
I'd change "Read this part for yourself and try to memorize as much of it as possible before you start the quest." > Read through and familiarize yourself with these before you start the quest.

b) Components

...Put the dice somewhere close to each player's reach. You might even have enough for each player to have their own dice.

I'd change "Put the dice somewhere close to each player's reach." > Put the dice within the players' reach.

c) The Cards

There is a number of cards for HQ. Sort them out into their various decks....

Sort the Treasure cards into the following decks: Golden Treasure, Silver Treasure, and Furniture Treasure. Shuffle each of these and put the decks next to each other somewhere all Heroes can reach....

The Equipment cards are kept in sight of the heroes. When they have enough gold, they may purchase Equipment cards. Discarding an Equipment card always means that it is put back in the Equipment deck immediately....

I'd change "There is a number of cards for HQ." > There are a number of cards for HQ.
I'd change "Shuffle each of these and put the decks next to each other somewhere all Heroes can reach." > Shuffle each of these and put the decks next to each other where all Heroes can reach them.
I'd change "The Equipment cards are kept in sight of the heroes. When they have enough gold, they may purchase Equipment cards." > The Equipment cards may be viewed by Heroes and purchased between Quests.

Creating the Heroes

...First, each player takes all rolesheets assigned to one class by the art on their backside until each class is represented by one player. Then, each player narrows down his choice to one of the rolesheets. This pick determines their scores at base attack, base defend, mind, and body they start each quest with and most importantly their special rules....

This way of picking heroes accomodates for five players. However, in case only two, three, or four players are available, nevertheless, all four classes should be represented to provide for the heroes' success. That means one or more players should play more than one hero.
In case even six players want to take part there is still enough room on the board. After four players have each picked a hero, the fifth player may choose any unchosen hero for one class represented by two heroes....

I'd change "This pick determines their scores at base attack, base defend, mind, and body they start each quest with and most importantly their special rules." > This pick determines their starting scores of base attack, base defend, mind, body and most importantly their special rules.
I'd change "This way of picking heroes accomodates for five players. However, in case only two, three, or four players are available, nevertheless, all four classes should be represented to provide for the heroes' success...." > This way of picking heroes accomodates five players. Nevertheless, if only two, three, or four players are available, all four classes should still be represented to provide for the heroes' success....

b) Building the Card Deck

...Special rules change some aspects of gameplay or give you some restrictions and do so permanently. They cannot be discarded which is why they are specified on the rolesheet rather than represented by cards....

Look up your starting body and mind points.
Now, take from the body and mind point pools the respective values in tokens. The tokens have values of '1' and '5'. They stand in for 1 or 5 points respectively.
Last, each hero takes a turn marker and lays it green circle up in front of them, easy to see for all.
From here on, a hero player is simply called 'hero'.

I'd modify "They cannot be discarded which is why they are specified on the rolesheet rather than represented by cards." > They cannot be discarded, which is why they are specified on the rolesheet rather than represented by cards.
I'd change "Now, take from the body and mind point pools the respective values in tokens. The tokens have values of '1' and '5'. They stand in for 1 or 5 points respectively." > Next, take from the body and mind point pools the respective values in tokens, which have values of '1' and '5'.
I'd change "Last, each hero takes a turn marker and lays it green circle up in front of them, easy to see for all." > Last, each hero takes a turn marker and lays it green-circle up in front of them, easy for all to see.
I'd change "From here on, a hero player is simply called 'hero'." > From here on, hero players are simply called 'heroes'. and move it to the end of 1 - Learning the Rules, b) The Hero Players section.

[knightkrawler]

@knightkrawler,
My comments aren't exactly timely, so I don't know if they are still wanted.

Always, man. Always. I've been waiting for you, to be honest.
Will hopefully have time to work through it on the weekend.

Whatever you find the time for - that goes for everybody with gripes, comments, questions, improvements, ideas - I'll happily take,
cause I'm approaching the finish line with the rulebook.

[Daedalus]

Here's some more comments on the Death section:

Death

...The gold in possession of the dead hero is immediately discarded. Their Artefact and Equipment cards, however, are not lost by default. They are freely divided among all heroes currently in the same room or corridor section where the hero died. Only if no hero is in that room they are discarded immediately.

I'd consider changing "The gold in possession of the dead hero is immediately discarded...." >Any gold gotten from previous Quests belonging to a dead hero is forfeited as a weregild for their family.... (Why would anyone lug around heavy treasure from previous Quests into dangerous areas? Families would become the commonlaw benefactors of this stash upon a Hero's demise. Gold found in the current Quest would still be split by surviving Heroes, as with the artifacts. Your rule is simpler and thus strong; my suggestion isn't better, but adds thematic rationalization if you care for it.)
I'd change "...Only if no hero is in that room they are discarded immediately." > ...They are discarded immediately only if no hero is in that room.

A villain dies when losing their last body or mind point and their figure is taken from the board immediately. Note that those villains with 0 starting mind points can only die by losing body points.

I'd change "...with 0 starting mind points..." >...with zero starting mind points... (This value isn't variable, so no numeral.)

The best way for Morcar to keep track of villains' body and mind points is not using tokens, but with the help of the Villain Tracker sheet found in the appendices and inscripting the bases of all villain figures, numbering all individual figures of each type. When utilized this way, there will be an 'Ork 1', an 'Ork 2', a 'Revenant 1', and so on, connecting each individual villain figure to an entry in the Tracker.

I'd change "The best way for Morcar to keep track of villains' body and mind points is not using tokens, but with the help of the Villain Tracker sheet found in the appendices and inscripting the bases of all villain figures, numbering all individual figures of each type...." > To better keep track of multiple villains' body and mind point totals, use the Villian Tracker Sheet (provided in the appendices) in place of tokens. Morcar should first number individual villain figures of each type....

Dead Villain Markers (OPTIONAL RULE)
Put a marker into the square last occupied by a dead villain. It is no obstacle to movement, and a move can even end on such a square. You can use these markers for looting corpses. There are many monster looting houserules to be found on yeoldeinn.com.

I'd change "Put a marker into the square last occupied by a dead villain. You can use these markers for looting corpses...." > Place a skull tile onto the square last occupied by a dead villain. You can use these tiles for looting corpses....