How to Get the Most Variety Out of the Basic HQ dice

[QorDaq]

But now that I think about it, I often experience when players are confused about rules, it's often because they expect a rule to work in a certain way, which it just happens to don't.

I feel that this is a very valid observation. In fact, with a little self-reflection I have to admit that much of the time when *I* am confused about a rule (regardless of the game in question), it's because I have a preconception that it's meant to mean a particular thing.

So, from that perspective writing perfect rules is always going to be problematic as there is no guaranteed way to anticipate how someone will ultimately read it.

However, the flip side to that, and in my opinion, is interpreting rules that may contain inconsistencies, or where different verbiage is used to describe the same or worse, similar, thing(s). Great for flavor text, and terrible for continuity and clarity.

In the case of HQ, the NA expansions get a little murky at times with some equipment because the formula for equipment in the base game was only casually adhered to, and some gear/ items were written more (again in my opinion), with one shot questing in mind over incorporation into the base game from that point forward. Hence some of the questions about who can use ______. Not to mention interesting but broken special attacks like those of some monsters in FH.

I suppose ideally then, recreating all of the cards and rewriting them for continuity would be the best chance at alleviating these questions... i.e. make the call and stick with it. Of course that means reprinting everything, but some folks do that anyway.

Which, in the broader context of the OP, also gives people a chance to look at the various ideas in this thread (for example), and tweak and modify as the work is being done to bring all equipment/ attack types, into a cohesive format.

Going back to your statement though; ultimately you are correct. Interpretation is going to come down to the perspective of the person reading a card/ rule at any given time.

maj!

[knightkrawler]

Because of all these prerogatives concerning the use of language in a liguistically sound re-write of HQ I'm re-working everything.
Not just rules, but also cards, worded as thoroughly and as cross-referential as possible, with keywords in italics to give their meaning in a glossary and so on.
But yes... everything is being revised, including the structures of how the rulebook and quest expansions work. I'm gonna rework the existing quest packs into smaller, one-game-night filling campaigns of quests, each in unity with their own special rules and so on. I hope I have something to show or have voluntarily edited over the next two weeks. Vacation coming up.

[Anderas]

I would even like to take a pre-look on a pre-version!

[mitchiemasha]

When I was working on my rule ideas, I learnt a lot about English and it's serious flaws. The problem lies in what someone else understands the rule to mean. I spent hours rewording a few sentences over and over. First trying to make it as simple as possible, then trying to rule out any other possible interpretation of the rule and still keeping it with in a few sentences. It's not that easy!

I'm very glad I did it, although I already noticed this problem in society, I now had a clear understanding of it. I've observed and been in many debates/arguments where what 1 person is saying would seem the complete opposite of the other but in actuality it's just a misunderstanding in each others meanings. Saying no your wrong or no you don't understand doesn't help the depiction of your view, where as wait a minute I haven't explained myself correctly, works a treat!!! To you you've explained yourself perfectly fine but what one must realise, if they haven't understood your angle, then your not debating over the actual point...

[Anderas]

It's worse in french as the people here like a lot to use polite understatements and double negations and such things.
You're right. There's always the position the speaker has on a topic (and his understanding of the world) and then what he says. Only if you know both you can be sure to understand.
When I was redeveloping Star Quest, i was putting an effort to make it as cleanly understandable as possible. Some month later I was reading the cards and thinking "couldn't you have been more polite?" Well, at least they're quite straight to the point. Don't know if I could do that in english or french.

That's one reason why i am quite interested in KK's Ruleset. And why i was reading carefully through the entirety of Goblin-King's Ruleset and playtesting it.

[mitchiemasha]

I'd like to try do a ruleset that doesn't seem or read like rules. Move away from terms such as turn, phase, player etc. I'm surprised that no ones clicked on that these terms can be what turns people not into games off from them. Not sure how to implement the idea yet but when I was doing my revision, I really wanted the rules to stay in theme, fluff that counts.

As for cards been straight to the point, Spartacus for example did this too much. The cards had plenty of space but only the words wrote of actual effect. Some fluff here to why or how the effect was implemented to encourage imagination would of been great. Instead your imagination is provoked only by the title and the rest reads as pure mechanics, no fun in that. Unless you've got good players who play for theme and not just Noughts and Crosses.

[Teldurn]

... unless I were to remake the entire game (but that would be crazy, right? )

*ahem*

[mitchiemasha]

[The next 3 posts were merged within this forum room on 1/5/17. -edit]

That's right, I've been overthinking things again. I've got so many different mechanics to bring about different abilities, weapons special etc. All from the simple initial combat roll, so i thought I'd try put all the trigger options into 1 thread.

Roll only skulls in attack, attack bonus.
Roll only affiliated shields in defence, defence bonus.

Fail to Hit... Roll no skulls in attack/only shields rolled.
Fail to Wound, includes fail to Hit... All skulls blocked.
Fail to kill…

Fail to Hit variants…
Roll only white shields in attack
Hero rolls mixed shields in attack.
Hero rolls only black shields in attack… Worst roll possible.
EW rolls mixed shields in attack.
EW rolls only black shields in attack… This could be positive.

Hero rolls a black shield in defence
Hero rolls only black shields in defence… Worst roll possible

Now we can have so many mixed combos of these like, Hero rolls a black shield in defence and the attacker fails to wound, re attack.


Possible mechanics with variations

Hero rolls a black shield in attack, each negates a Skull/Hit... Enchanted Shield.
Hero rolls a black shield in attack and fails to wound (variant, fails to hit), triggers free counter attack... Multiple limbed, Waaagh in presence of Chieftain*.
Reasoning: If it was simply, 'black shield' the more powerful a hero, the more likely it would face a counter attack. Good for game balance but makes little sense thematically.

Any Skulls rolled in defence are hits, attacker rolls to defend against even if defender was killed... Spiked Shield.

Roll affiliated shields in attack, spend to exchange squares/push back/move extra spaces.

Hero rolls black shield in defence, each negates a white shield/block... Fumble, effects under spell/dungeon enchantment

Roll all skulls in attack, if non wound, reattack... Chieftain, Dual wield monster.
Hero rolls black shield in defence and isn’t wounded, triggers 2nd attack.
reasoning: For the sake of balance, 2nd attacks are better when the first fails. A negative Cd6 needs to be in the mix somewhere for theme. A powerful attack followed by another, would simply be OP.

*Waaagh variation
Hero rolls a black shield in attack and wounds triggers free counter attack.
Reasoning: The Orc would still die. In the previous version, the Orc will get a counter attack and be able to attack again in the coming EW turn, similar to 2 attacks, potential OP, game breaking.


I have more trigger variants but my head is already mush here.

[Anderas]

There are a lot of ideas in this great thread that i enjoyed a lot!

http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2987

[mitchiemasha]

Ah yes, i remember that thread now. I should of posted this in their.