HQ: Heroes & Villains (knightkrawler) - DISCUSSION

[mitchiemasha]

I think you might be being too thorough.

Do you write legal contracts? the start reads like the small print on a contract... When writing rule sets the first thing, probably the most important thing to remember is... It's only a game! it's supposed to be fun and the heavy use of words like rules, appendix, glossaries etc, can be a turn off. Apart from those who play games purely for the mechanics. The rest of us want to be chasing after Goblins, chopping off Orcs heads, almost losing a limb to Chaos Warrior, kitting up with new weapons, possibly dabbling in bit of magic and almost certainly drinking the odd potion or 2.

For me a rules set should start with things like... In your quest to find greatness you must firsts pick your art, are you a strong barbarian, a mighty dwarf... etc!!! Set the lore early on and make it exciting to read.

Or even... Are you the Evil Sorcerer who threatens dominion over all man kind or 1 of the mighty Heroes sent forth to end his reign. As you gather tonight for this great adventure, 1 of your group must represent all that is evil and wicked, turn to chapter 4. The rest of you are mankinds last hope, turn to chapter 5, pick your Hero and play him well, the freedom of all is depending on it.

When you get to chapter 4 the wording would change to suit the evil style of the player, how being evil and sorts is good. Where as chapter 5 would read for the Heroes. Setting up the players in their theme. Combat sections would be neutral but still carefully worded to avoid boring schematic type words or seriously minimising them.

Also not everything has to be spelt out. It's quite fun for our brains to discover things and come to an understanding rather than been told exactly how something is. This is true for many things! For me the intro is too much!!!

[knightkrawler]

I'll take it into consideration, at the very least. The rules stand now, the text has been edited twice or three times, now some creative writing is due.
The introduction on how to read the rules and how overruling works is very important to me. Maybe I'll do some research on how other games handle this and if at all if the structure is similar (text body, cards, rule exceptions).
I'm a little anal about conciseness but this will hopefully loosen up with each edit.

[mitchiemasha]

1 - Getting Started & Learning the Rules

The first thing you have to get accustomed to when playing HQ – Heroes & Villains' is that whatever you learn in this book is overruled by cards or questnotes whenever both rulings are incongruous. In these circumstances, rulebook text becomes subordinate to what the card or questnotes tell you to do.

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In a dark and dangerous night of HEROQUEST the world will unfold before you as it is written in this book. Through out your journey specific Quests and items discovered will grant you the power to manipulate the rules, bend the law. Quest notes and artefacts, the cards you posses always overule what is written here.

Lol that was my 3rd attempt. My other ones ended up way too long but that's what I'm on about.

I used things like 'by the words inscribed upon them' ... 'as good and evil collide what is written shall change'

I didn't even know what subordinate meant... the opening paragraph isn't that bad, it does what it needs to but it's when it's added with the next 2 paragraphs, for me it's a lil too much.

[Anderas]

You could keep the detailed wording, but have it later in the text.
It is true, the rules shall not only give guidance for the game mechanics, but also introduce the feeling.
If someone wants to discuss the mechanics, he will likely refer to the glossary. Why not putting all the superfine details there and have something more storyline in the beginning, explaining the rules in general, but not in every detail?

[mitchiemasha]

how overruling works is very important to me.

I love the overruling thing... Check out flux the game is basically based on that 1 mechanic, then just adds themes depending on what the target customers thing might be, as in the various different versions.

As for researching other games... I'm not sure it's done that way in many but I think it should be. For instance in other games... phase... that's so 90's and games need to move away from that, obviously it's still a phase but just how it's put across. If a person is new to games they will just as much not understand the term phase so the author is free to come up with any sort of term or theme that actually suits the game.

[knightkrawler]

In a dark and dangerous night of HEROQUEST the world will unfold before you as it is written in this book. Through out your journey specific Quests and items discovered will grant you the power to manipulate the rules, bend the law. Quest notes and artefacts, the cards you posses always overule what is written here.

That's outright ready for the taking. I'll edit the whole monster trying to get out my ass talking to students and going for a more invoking style.
You're absolutely right about that. I'll have to walk a fine line, however. Conciseness remains key.

You could keep the detailed wording, but have it later in the text.

For this particular paragraph, I might do just that. Makes sense to introduce the rule with the first mention of how cards and quest notes work.
There will be a Mentor speech in the beginning of the rulebook, as in the original, but maybe it would be a good idea to come up with a very short Mentor version of things before or after each chapter for the storyline.

[mitchiemasha]

I'll put it another way. When I read the first 3 paragraphs I actually feel confused over some simple information. Sometimes we can confuse people because of the bombardment when in actuality it's a lot simpler. What is explained will be figured out be the reader by default reading the normal rules. Where as if I was new to this, with that opener I'd be like oh this sounds complicated, but it isn't it just sounds like it is.

I think I've just done the exact same thing trying to explain my emotion on your opener. Sometimes it's hard to put into words and when we try to put into words, we over speak! ... and ... I'm still doing it!!!!!!!!! I hope that made sense. LOL!!!

[mitchiemasha]

There will be a Mentor speech in the beginning of the rulebook, as in the original, but maybe it would be a good idea to come up with a very short Mentor version of things before or after each chapter for the storyline.

This is great. If you have a look there's 2 versions of the UK rules. The first 1 is a mess rule wise as in lots missing, like attacking, defending in pit traps but it has a scroll thing to each section, splitting out the heroes etc. I really like how they did that but it got ditched for the newer edition, possibly to save space as many things were moved about.

[knightkrawler]

Space is a concern. My rulebook is 33 pages (DIN A5) as is.

[knightkrawler]

I edited the first post.
Also, my second post with the follow-up chapter: http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3004&p=56186&hilit=knightkrawler+setting+up+game#p56186
The hero players chapter is shoved almost completely into the rolesheet chapter.
A complete language and mood overhaul, hopefully uncomplicating things, will be done during my next vacation. That one's for you, mitchiemasha and Anderas. I feel the same of course, but it's hard to keep the balance.

And here's the Death chapter, repeated for easy access. I hope it's clear how a dead hero can still be saved. If not, puh-leaze let me know.
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Death

When a hero discards their last body or mind point token, they die. The figure is put face down in the square it last occupied. That square may be freely moved through, but a move cannot end there. The hero may still regain body or mind points through the action of another hero at this point, but if they start their next turn with 0 mind or body points, their figure is taken from the board and their player is now free to make sandwiches and chili dips.

The gold in possession of the dead hero is immediately discarded. Their Artefact and Equipment cards, however, are not lost by default. They are freely divided among all heroes currently in the same room or corridor section where the hero died. Only if no hero is in that room they are discarded immediately.

A villain dies when losing their last body or mind point and their figure is taken from the board immediately. Note that those villains with 0 starting mind points can only die by losing body points.

The best way for Morcar to keep track of villains' body and mind points is not using tokens, but with the help of the Villain Tracker sheet found in the appendices and inscripting the bases of all villain figures, numbering all individual figures of each type. When utilized this way, there will be an 'Ork 1', an 'Ork 2', a 'Revenant 1', and so on, connecting each individual villain figure to an entry in the Tracker.

Dead Villain Markers (OPTIONAL RULE)
Put a marker into the square last occupied by a dead villain. It is no obstacle to movement, and a move can even end on such a square. You can use these markers for looting corpses. There are many monster looting houserules to be found on yeoldeinn.com.