Mounted combat rules

[torilen]

I haven't read all of the comments here - and frankly I'm not going to right now...I've had a fever
for 4 days now, and just don't feel like it. I do have a suggestion, however.

In response to the "not moving through the same space twice" thought - no mount is going to be
able to move backward easily. For proper mount movement, one would need a turning rule - much
like the flying rules and water-movement rules found in D&D.

For example, the typical horse would have to use up a certain number of spaces if moving at normal
speed in order to turn. See my very rudimentary chart below:

1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15

If moving from 5 toward 1 at a normal speed, and the rider decides at space 3 that he wants to turn, he
would have to go 2-7-12-13-14 simply to turn around 180 degrees.
If moving at 1/2 speed, I would say he could go 3-8-9-4, as the momentum wouldn't be as great, and that would
allow the horse to flex better. But...you see...it still takes up 3 additional movement spaces simply to get back to where
he wants to be.

Just my thought.

Oh...and about Moria - come on...it is a dwarf keep - of course it would look like that. Few of the dungeons the heroes
encounter in HQ are dwarf keeps, though. Right?

[Nephew of Mentor]

In response to the "not moving through the same space twice" thought - no mount is going to be
able to move backward easily.

Oh, absolutely wouldn't make sense, you are correct. I didn't mean to associate my question with this particular topic, I was just asking while it was among the topics being discussed. Haha.

As for dwarven keeps. Your comment is quite convenient considering my consideration of the dwarf quest pack.

[Nephew of Mentor]

I know I'm free" to move through the same space twice

Weeell,but in this case it would help your cause.
Perhaps you could add this to your riding rules given in post 1:
"While riding a mount, you may not move over the same square in a single turn, even when otherwise playing the NAmerican rules. This represents the momentum of the galloping mount. You may ignore this rule when riding in "walk". When riding in the walk bait, you move and fight as if not mounted at all".
This would apply to "normal" moves and charges alike, effectively avoiding boss monsters bouncing around.

I agree entirely with this entire post. Couldn't have described it better myself.

[Big Bene]

As for Moria:
Quite some of the original HQ quests take place in dwarfen keeps. But I always imagined Moria much "narrower", more claustrophobic, than it was depicted by Pete Jackson. And even in the movie, only some of the central places are really spacy, the heroes flee through some narrow tunnels, too.

[Zenithfleet]

As for the "maynot... move through the same square twice" rule, it's on page seven of the english version of the european rules, and repeated on page 12.

Only in the 1st edition

(along with many other oddities)

[Big Bene]

Only in the 1st edition
(along with many other oddities)

I dunno.
Just checked it in the pdf on the Inn homepage. Didn't have my own rulebook at hand, wich is German, 1st edition, and has this rule, too.

But I think we can agree it is fitting for horseriding. Torilen has put it more precisely in his chart, but I think the no-square-twice rule is a good way to put this in simple, playable rules.

[Big Bene]

So let me try to sum it up:

Mounted combat rules
Kinds of Mounts
As all kinds of riding animals can be found in a fantasy world, we'll use the term "mount", rather than "horse" throughout this rule description. Note, however, that horses are by far the most common mounts, and the only kind that the heroes can purchase "in town" (between quests). A horse has a movement of 10, a strenght (life) of 5, defense of 1 die, and costs 500 gold. More exotic mounts can be introduced during a quest by the gamemaster. Mounts generally don't fight on their own and have therefore only movement, defense and life stats.

Using a Mount
When riding a mount, special movement and combat rules apply as described in the following sections. Getting on and off a mount both take one "action", i. e. you can move and mount or dismount in one turn, but not fight, search or use magic in the same turn. Mounting and unmounting takes place from (or to) a square adjactant to the horse. When unmounted, a mount will wait where you left it (place a marker) and can be mounted again by every humanoid figure who finds it.

The Walk
Horses can be ridden in walk, trott or gallop, and other mounts have corresponding baits. For gaming purposes, we assume that you either ride as fast as possible, which, in a dungeon, will be sometimes a trott, somtimes a slow gallop at best, or you decide to be careful and ride in walk.
When riding in walk, none of the special rules apply, you move and fight just as if not mounted at all. Heroes move at 2D6, monsters riding in walk have a movement of five.

Hazards
Horseriding in a dungeon (or any building) is difficult and even dangerous. This also makes for better balance. A mounted enemy (or hero) would certainly have some advantages regarding movement and combat, but on the other hand face some difficulties. So, whenever the mounted hero/monster moves or fights, 1D6 is rolled to determine if somthing has gone wrong. Only one test per turn is necessary, even if you move or fight more than once (but two tests may still be necessary if you move and fight). Details are listed in the Hazard table below.

Movement

• While mounted, a character, or monster, has the speed of their mount (10 in the case of a horse).
• While riding a mount, you may not move over the same square in a single turn, even when otherwise playing the NAmerican rules. This represents the momentum of the galloping mount. This rule also applies to mounted combat.
• For every mounted move (only the first move in the turn if you split your move), 1D6 is rolled for Hazards, after the move. If riding in a corridor (which is more difficult), something goes wrong at 1-2. If riding in a room, something goes wrong at 1. If riding through a door (regardless of corridor or room), somthing goes wrong at 1-2. Roll another D6 and apply the hazard table.

Combat

• While mounted, heroes, or Zargon may move, attack(while moving) and then move again, so long as the sum of the two moves are equal to or less than their maximum movement. This means that after a turn is finished, two combatants will not necessarily be standing adjacent to one another. In some cases, this could be a decided disadvantage for the unmounted players. Imagine, a mounted knight with 10 squares of movement, starts two squares away from the dwarf. He closes distance, attacks, and deals 3 damage to the dwarf, and then moves the rest of his movement squares. The dwarf has now taken a major hit, but he has only rolled a 5, yet the knight is too far away to reach, so the Dwarf cannot fight back this turn and would be better off finding a doorway to duck into. Wall of Fire and such spells would be very helpful here.
• A movement made "On-the-run" is more powerful than a standing attack, but less accurate. The rider reduces his number of attack dice by 2 (to a minimum of 1), but those dice would each be worth two points of damage if successful.
• You can still fight in the normal way while mounted - aprroaching an enemy (using the mount's movement), stop there and fight with your normal attack dice. You may not move further after such an attack.
• If two mounted fighters attack one another, (joust style) whoever has first turn determines how many tiles they will move and then holds their turn. The next person decides how far they will move. Then, both figures are moved one square at a time toward each other, until they are diagonal from each other (if armed with spears, pole arms, or long weapons) or they are adjacent to one another. Those fighting in this way then roll the appropriate combat dice, plus one. Defense and attack occur in this same roll. (Not sure this rule works, and not sure if it would ever be used).
• When fighting (attacking or beeing attacked), roll 1D6. On a result of 1 or 2, somthing goes wrong. Roll another D6 and apply the hazard table. This test is made before attack and defense is resolved. If appropriate (i.e. the rider is still in an adjactant square to his opponent) after the test, the combat takes place as normal.

The Hazard Table

Code: Select all

        In Room:              In Corridor or Through Door     Fighting
  1D6   1:   Touches Wall     1-4: Touches Wall               1:   Rampant
        2-4: Rampant          5:   Rampant                    2-4: Buckle
        5-6: Buckle           6:   Buckle                     5-6: Bolt


Results:

• Touches Wall: The mount runs along the wall, grinding the rider's leg to the rough stone. Take two combat dice of damage for every five squares of movement. Test against Strength with a D6. If failed, the rider falls off his mount at half way.
• Rampant: The mount rears up, crushing the rider's head against the ceiling, dealing four combat dice of damage without defense (except for a helmet, which gives two defense dice).
• Buckle: The mount buckles. The rider can take no movement or other action this turn. He also has to test against Strength or fall off, taking 2 combat dice of damage.
• Bolt: Immediately make an extra movement at the mount's maximum speed. The direction of this move is determined by the enemy player. Make a test against Strength or fall off, taking 2 combat dice of damage. On every succesive turn, make another test against Strengh to take control over your mount again. Add one to your Strengh every turn (for this purpose only), as the mount will calm down by it's own over time. Until passing this test, the enemy player may move you again at max speed. The bolt also ends when reaching a 1-square dead end.

Riding Overland
When riding overland (i. e. not in a dungeon or building), add two to the mount's movement. No hazard tests are made for movement (but still for combat)

Centaurs
Centaurs and other creatures compareable to a ridden horse wouldn't have to worry about grinding legs, or falling off, and would be fairly familiar with their own height limits. For such creatures the rules apply as given above, but something goes wrong only at a 1 on 1D6, regardles if the test is made in a room or corridor, or a fight. Results of Bolt and Buckle are ignored.

Fighting Mounts
It is always assumed that an enemy will fight the rider as the more dangerous target, not the mount. Mounts can only be attacked if they are alone, i.e. the rider has unmounted or been killed. In this case, use the mount's defend and strenght stats. Mounts never fight back, but would rather flee.

[torilen]

UPDATE: COMMENT MADE NOW

Okay - I fixed the problem, so now I can make my comment.

My expanded monsters accessory contains a number of monsters/creatures that could be
used as mounts by the more nefarious races (goblins, kobolds, orcs, etc). They are noted
under each entry.

Expanded Monsters can be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=1212&p=13566#p13566

[Daedalus]

Mounts sound like so much fun that I can't resist riding rough-shod over this thread with my own ideas:

I'd suggest that if a Hero is mounted, then the mount should use 2 red dice for movement (1d6 for a Hero with Plate Mail), or alternatively 1 red die of Hero movement (1d3 for Plate Mail) combined with a Move of 6. This is to preserve the Hero Quest initiative mechanic for Heroes, which is built into the Hero movement dice. This kind of movement should apply to dungeon and indoor settings, which are unnatural for a horse (and rider) and thus usually cause unsure, lessened movement. It is still possible to get 12 movement out of the horse, it's just not likely.

For monsters such as the Centaur just give a fixed move, as usual. To reflect the awkwardness of moving in a dungeon or indoors for a monster that was built for outdoor movement, I'd tone down its movement to 10, or 9 because of the armor.

Outdoors, I'd say 4-legged monsters and animals such as a Giant Wolf, Centaur, or Horse should be allowed an extra move to reflect the ease of moving in thier natural environment. This would be canceled by difficult terrain, which is basically the case with indoor movement.

My thinking is the special move, attack, and move combination of a charge should only be granted to a lance or perhaps spear, because they provide enough reach to maintain the distance necessary to exploit the charger's movement and size advantages. [Perhaps the weapon descriptions would be the place to include the charge rules.] I'd also make requirements for at least half of the charger's base movement before the attack and for all of the charger's movement to be in a straight line--speed and momentum is the key, not finesse. I further think a figure using a diagonally-attacking weapon could nullify a charger's advantages and prevent a charge. [The rule could be added to the diagonally-attacking weapon descriptions.] In my opinion, it would be overpowered to allow a charger to attack without a chance of retaliation for two turns. Even just one turn of free attack should be possible to counter.

If less accurate but more dangerous charges are wanted, I'd just reduce the attack dice by one but double each skull result. A Spear would get just 1 Attack Die, but it would score 2 skulls half of the time. (A normal Spear attack would only score 2 skulls a quarter of the time.) I think a Lance should have 3 Attack Dice, attack diagonally or 1 square space beyond orthogonally (no adjacent attack). Used for a charge, it would have 2 Attack Dice with a possibility of 4 skulls a quarter of the time. This is four times more likely than a Battle Axe getting 4 skulls.

For consideration, a mount or similar monster that was larger than the opponent could be allowed to ride through a target's space if at least 1 Body Point of damage was suffered by the target. This would require an empty space beyond the target, and could be thought of as the effects of a trample.

I personally don't feel a player would want to deal with high chances of riding mishaps that could damage a Hero more swiftly than the monsters. If the consequences of riding a mount are too severe, then riding simply won't be used. But if anyone thinks it would be fun or realistic and wants such possiblilies, then I'd suggest simplifying and toning down ideas already presented. To speed play, tie the chance of a mishap to the movement roll. With two red dice, a doubles result would trigger a mishap. The result could be used to reference a table, or even more simply cause a single penalty, such as loss of movement. If you instead prefer 6 plus one red die for movement, then a roll of 1 would indicate a mishap. However, another roll would be needed here if you want the options of a table.

[Nephew of Mentor]

I like how you are thinking. You might find that the damage you suggested is fairly similar to what I suggested initially. I did not think about the "rolling doubles" idea, but I really do like it, as well as the concept of halting a charge with a weapon capable of diagonal attacks. However, I do feel that move attack move would still be possible with use of any weapon longer than a short sword, and maybe even including the short sword. I can't help but picture someone swinging a sword while riding past a foot soldier.
I am incredibly happy that this concept is being considered by so many people. I am really hoping that you guys might some day put these rules to use in a homemade quest, as it will be a while before I take on another project(I have already started too many projects). I'm excited.