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Common internet Homebrew Rules I Don't Use

Discuss new Rules for HeroQuest.

Common internet Homebrew Rules I Don't Use

Postby Kurgan » April 3rd, 2023, 12:56 pm

People love tropes, cliches and rants about them right? :mrgreen: As you read this, remember I'm not angry, more just commenting on what I've seen. |_P
[I mention the remake, but really I'm mostly talking about house rules that have been floating around on the internet from the time before the remake came out, though they got a new lease on life when people started debating and comparing notes about house rules]

So if you look up "heroquest" online and if you start looking through forums and fan sites, you're bound to find them. Lists of homebrew rules, often copied from other places and I see very many common things. However for various reasons I don't use them. I have nothing against homebrews in general but there is a sense of the game I have that I find the most fun, that is largely based on nostalgia (and also simplicity) that prevents me from using many of them, though I do introduce my own. Each to their own. That said here's an ever growing list of common house rules for the NA/remake edition I see and why I don't use them:

1) Walk up to Chests to Open Them.
I think at one time I might have tried this, thinking perhaps it was what was always intended... that searching reveals what's INSIDE the chest and then you have to move adjacent to actually pick it up. I think when we went through this very brief phase, we also thought that you wouldn't spring the "trap" until you actually opened it. This is clearly NOT what the NA rules entailed, so I play it much more strictly now. You search the room, the first hero finds whatever the note says, everyone else gets a card. I suppose it builds up the suspense and might be a little more realistic but to me it just wastes time if there are more than two people playing especially so I'm not that interested in it. The japanese edition is the only version that explicitly intended you to do this, though it's quite possible (great recent thread on it anyway) that the original EU edition of the game might have had this "walk up to the chest" thing in mind, even if it's not really spelled out in the published versions. Interestingly enough it seems that the designers of the BQP/EQP/etc. were thinking of implementing it and even doing the "search each piece of furniture individually" thing too, but for whatever reason left that on the cutting room floor prior to release.

2) NERF (tm) Crossbow restrictions.
Many people find the Crossbow overpowered and seek to limit it in some way. This is the only reason I can conceive for doing this, but many give the excuse that it's "more realistic" the way they're doing it (and yet they don't change other aspects of the game that are equally or more "unrealistic" or historically "inaccurate"). For example many will limit its range, say to 9 squares. Why? I would point out that if it's a realism question, Crossbows of all sorts have been constructed and who is to say that you have a poorly made one that has such limited range? Look up world record archery, crossbow, etc. and even videos of amateurs shooting targets and you may be amazed what people can do. I like to remind people that you are HEROES not necessarily just schlubs off the street who just picked up this weapon for the first time. Another common limitation I see is that the Crossbow is two handed, so you can't use a shield. Of course there are videos pointing out that there are examples of warriors (and even amateurs) able to use a shield with another weapon, so this isn't perfectly realistic. It may take two hands to "load" the crossbow (pistol crossbows can be fired one handed) but there are also videos of even amateurs loading crossbows one handed. Why impose this limitation? Also many of these same people will respect the "intended by omission" rule (later explicitly confirmed by Avalon Hill on twitter) that a crossbow CAN hit the four orthogonally adjacent (closed diagonal) squares, making the Longsword less useful (I disallow this exception for that very reason, much simpler than adjusting the prices or trying to buff the longsword). I figure at the very least this is how it was played in the Japanese edition of 1991 (though this edition uses the "walk up to chests" rule and the "cards limit armory stock" rule which I don't use, so there). Also, it's perfectly realistic that you could shoot someone point blank with the crossbow yet they don't allow that, so what gives? It seems inconsistent to me, just a random reason to nerf a weapon that they buff in other ways ending up more or less in the same place with a very powerful weapon that is still fun to use. Another common nerf I see for the Crossbow is that the string "breaks" somehow, like if you roll two black shields. What self respecting crossbowman wouldn't stock a spare string and could re-string it very quickly? Also more importantly, How is this fun? So now you're going to be without this weapon the rest of the quest. Are you supposed to buy two of them just in case? I don't really think the idea of "critical fails" and "critical success" fits into this (d6) game but some people like it I guess. Next is the ammo. People say it's unrealistic for Crossbows to have "infinite" arrows/bolts so they insist that it "runs out." In a few expansions there are notes about crossbows you find that have limited ammo, but this is the exception. Again an attempt to nerf the crossbow by having it suck up gold. You can already buy multiple daggers to have a throwing supply but I guess this is just something I don't care for. Realism states that archers and crossbowman actually did bring quite a bit of ammo into battle during wartime, which would be quite enough for the kinds of usage this gets in a typical quest even without allowing for trying to "retrieve" the missiles from dead enemies (something that wasn't typically done in war, though was done in hunting and target shooting from what I've read). In wartime they also had soldiers stick extra arrows in the ground and even had men bringing in wagon-loads of spare arrows to keep them stocked. The idea of running out of arrows in a quest seems much more like a video game convention not something that enhances the fun here.

3) NERF (tm) Longsword restriction.
As if making the Crossbow more powerful wasn't enough of a problem some people want to nerf the Longsword as well, making it a two handed weapon that can't be combined with a shield. I guess they say this is more realistic because the term "longsword" (rather than side sword or arming sword) would refer to a weapon that would be more likely to be two handed. Using this logic the "broadsword" isn't a broadsword either, etc. I don't try to get that technical with my weapons. Whatever they are, or whatever they would have been called in medieval times is irrelevant to me. This is a fantasy game and it doesn't make the game more fun for me to introduce more nerfs to this weapon.

4) Limited Supply Armory deck.
For some reason people like to say that not only should you have Equipment cards for everything (I grew up with the Armory menu which has a lot of advantages, not least of which is that it's much faster to shop this way rather than shuffling through a deck of cards looking for what you want and the not having "enough" cards for everyone and constantly trying to print more and then having huge piles of cards in front of each person, which makes turns take longer, etc vs. a nice colorful board explaining what everything is with cool artwork) but that supply should be limited by cards as well! The only official version that limited supply based on cards was the Japanese edition. Even here though there was a reason for it.... you could buy healing potions (and to avoid making it too easy and having the heroes spend all their gold on healing, they limited the supply. Likewise in that localization the Elf couldn't wear much armor but he was the only one who could use the Crossbow. The strongest armor/weapon could only be used by the Warrior (Barbarian). That's fine. Having cards for everyone is nice, but I prefer the armory board. Plus you're just going to subtract the gold and write down the name of the weapon and how many dice anyway. I don't see why it's more fun if there is only one crossbow (again unless only one character can use it!). How is that realistic? You go from town to town and your money is no good.. you can't even pay a blacksmith to make it for you? Here is where having a video game format would be nice (or dry erase markers for blank cards)... if you want to vary the price and what's available between each quest. But since it may be a long time before you get to shop again, why would you limit the heroes so much? Not all of us have the luxury of relying on a regular play group that is going to be patient enough to go through dozens of quests with regularity. :arrow: [Edit: I should amend this because technically, literally, both 1st-1989 and 2nd Edition-1990 of HeroQuest did INDEED limit supply of Equipment based on cards. This was revised with the 1991 "Adventure Design Kit" box which provided a larger re-designed Character Sheet and instructed players to write items down on the sheet and that cards would not limit the available stock. Whether many EU players chose to adopt this official revision is unclear. But supply for Armory or Alchemist Shop items was never limited in the NA edition and explicitly is not limited in the remake edition which adopted the Equipment deck mechanic alongside the Armory concept].

5) Limited carrying capacity.
I see this one less often, but this is another video game convention... that is, people say it's unrealistic for you to be able to hold "all those weapons" and yet they still give you a pretty absurd carrying capacity. As people on youtube like shadiversity have pointed out, how realistic is it to have an adventurer roaming around with 500 gold coins in his pockets, and a bunch of potions that he won't be able to get out and drink in time to avoid dying, and a suit of armor, and a bow, etc. and somehow because you limited him to two swords, that makes it more realistic? Sorry, I don't buy it. No magical "bag of holding" required, I just play the game the way it was designed on this point. You can write it all on your character sheet and if you don't want something, you sell it off or give it to another hero or drop it in a dark corner of the dungeon and forget about it, whatever.

6) Plate Armor is too slow.
Here I can sympathize with a lot of players. People love having plate armor but they HATE that it slows you down. Many will say sure it still slows you down but not nearly as much. Maybe it just subtracts a couple of squares of movement (like only 2) or they say that based on your "character class" (pet peeve, they are character types, classes are a D&D term mostly) like maybe a Barbarian is slowed down less than an Elf. When people bring up realism however I laugh. How is it "realistic" that a Wizard can't wear it? The realism people go all over the place claiming you needed a squire to put the armor on you (not true, and there are videos of amateurs putting on plate armor un-assisted, or even very quickly assisted). Real medieval plate didn't require you to be hoisted onto a horse with a crane, and you could run and jump around. Yes, jousting armor was a lot heavier and some of it quite restrictive, but whatever. You could just reason whatever this armor is, it slows you down. I don't mind it being that way and having a Knight that wasn't slowed down by it at all kind of rubbed me the wrong way at first but it doesn't seem too bad overall. There are a lot of ways to speed up a "slow" character with magic, so I don't consider this too much of a big deal.

7) Potions expire.
The NA heroquest is sometimes mocked by fans of the EU edition as "potion hoarder edition." It is that, but later quests are so difficult that it kind of makes up for that. Why hoard potions? Because you aren't allowed (at least until the remake) to sell them back to the Armory to get some gold back. Players don't just use potions to use them up, they keep them forever unless they are forced to use them, it seems. Heroes buy potions without knowing what they will actually need if it's not just plain old healing. The idea that these potions are now going to be worthless to me is just annoying. Maybe if they said potions you buy don't expire, but that's much more to keep track of. Yes, the EU edition cut you off from treasure potions (and had no potion buy ability, only Against the Ogre Horde had some special large potions if playing the campaign "as a series"). I just think it's more needless complexity and I don't care if people have to write on the back of their character sheets. Use your potions or give them away if you get annoyed I guess.

8) Monsters are boring and weak, give them unique abilities.
This is kind of a cool idea, wanting to give monsters special skills so they aren't boring. To me this is just more complexity though. The whole point of having quest notes is so that you can have special monsters... give them names, give them magic, play around with their stats, etc. but saying every Orc has this or that skill, and there are four different types of Chaos Warriors based on a different Chaos god they worship, while interesting is just a lot more work for Zargon to do, etc. I have no problem occasionally introducing some tougher monsters to keep it interesting like giving diagonal or ranged weapons to ordinary monsters or buffing out the odd mini-boss with some extra attack/defense or a spell or two. I just think some of it is overkill. Plus, whatever happened to having some generic monsters? If all goblins have X and Y abilities it's no longer unique or special.

9) Dwarf and Barbarian are boring, give them cards!
This I can sympathize with. So many other new heroes are given fancy spells and special abilities so these two "tanks" start to look boring by comparison. Unpopular opinion here but what's wrong with "boring"? Simple means that these are great heroes for new players to start out with. Maybe I don't want to manage a big pile of cards. Not everyone wants HQ to be more and more complex. Relax! I too have decided to allow them to pick up some Combat Cards between quests, but I still try to keep things simple if people want it that way. Many starting players don't want to be the Wizard because it's daunting to have 9 cards to manage (and those turns are going to take a lot longer than the guy who has only to search and fight).

10) Searches! People can't decide if they want them simpler or more complex, but they never really save time...
On the one hand there are people who hate that searching is split into three actions. They want it to be two (like the EU edition) or just one! They say this speeds up gameplay. Okay, but then often they turn right around and say you should be able to search each individual piece of furniture which is going to make things take a lot longer, plus it puts more pressure on Zargon who now has to write in all those extra things (since most pieces of furniture have nothing in them... it's Treasure Chests and sometimes the Weapons Rack, and more rarely the Sorcerer's Table or Alchemist Bench or maybe the Bookcase, usually furniture is just space-filler decoration). Then they will object and say it's "not realistic" that you searched the whole room and stopped when you found one thing and there's no way the other heroes would find anything so they want it to be one search per room, period. So now you've greatly increased the difficulty because now you have 1/4th the treasure and even more opportunities for the heroes to "fight over" the limited resources. So you fix it again by increasing the amount of loot that is found in that one search per room... what problem did you solve again exactly? I find that heroes enjoy the opportunity to start building their own stash. It's one thing if you're a single player controlling multiple heroes, but it takes some of the fun out of it if just everything is handed to you (unless you're humbly sitting through your first training session I suppose).

11) The Wizard sucks. Buff him!
Yes, everyone agrees the Wizard sucks (or something) and needs to get on the Charles Atlas steroid program at the very least. They want him to be as powerful as the Barbarian, so he can win quests single handed. I can sympathize with the love of the Wizard and wishing him to be better. This isn't Gary Gygax's fault (supposedly he hated wizards because at his table the they were "too good" I'm not a D&D historian, go ask one). And I don't care if Gandalf dual wielded a sword and staff while throwing fireballs at dragons either. HeroQuest is making each of the heroes unique and they are supposed to (in this version) work together to accomplish the goal. Yes, you could modify the Wizard so he is a tank who needs noone, but then why do that? Now you don't need the other three heroes. Yes, many complain that he has body points that are too low (the Wizard quest pack was going to give him an artifact to remedy that but he had to earn it). Yes, there were going to be special potions only he could use, in this unreleased pack. Yes, in the EU edition he can use magical armor and magical weapons. And if you want to see what it's like if you just go all the way, check out the official 1991 Gremlin HeroQuest PC game. In that one the Wizard can wield a battle axe, while wearing plate armor and fire the crossbow, etc. He's not limited by gear in any way, making him a weaker Barbarian with magic. How about something that gives him unlimited spells? Okay that's cool, but now why would he do anything else but spam spells? I guess that would be fun at first just like it's fun to play an FPS game in "god mode" for a few minutes after you're tired of losing, I get it. I just don't mind that the Wizard isn't almighty. Once he's tricked out with his Wizard artifacts and buys bracers (which he didn't have in the NA edition) he's not so bad. Most quests are designed for the four heroes, not for a solo hero. Yes, Prophecy of Telor has some cool ideas that can buff the Wizard (doesn't have to be the Wizard) and make him the "star" of the story, but it's still not a solo campaign where one Hero has to shine above all others. The barbarian and dwarf are awesome, but without healing they eventually die like anyone else. They are weak against magic and later quests where mind points are basically your health makes them absolute weaklings compared to the Wizard.

12) Door blocking sucks, how to stop it?
Even Avalon Hill is getting on this train and I can sympathize. It's "boring' For Zargon to always face the same strategy that the Rulebook TEACHES YOU TO DO which is to have a strong character block the doorway and have other heroes with diagonal attacks flank him and take out the monsters. This is just something "cheap" that is part of the game and frankly good strategy, much like Zargon moving his monsters around strategically instead of just having them dumbly run forward and attack the closest hero (rather than attack, move him out of the way, move the next monster in, force them into traps, etc). Zargon gets the cheap move of traps on the other side of the doorway and the last hero in the round searching for treasure and getting a wandering monster that attacks him and then Zargon's turn is next and he gets to attack him AGAIN, so there. This isn't Space Crusade where the GM is expected to have an equal chance of winning and is always actively competing (even though this is a debate.. whether he's more of a referee or facilitator or if he should actually try to make it hard to win).

13) Permanent Death.
So many people complain about this, again many who prefer the EU edition where once you got to zero body points that's it. Here's the problem though, if you get rid of death saves, what happens? On the next quest that player just comes back with another hero who is the same exact hero just with his name changed (at best) and starting gear again. Are you really going to ban someone from the table because their hero got killed (maybe especially because their teammates didn't help them out or they were new and didn't know everything yet?). Seems like a poor idea. Just as I wouldn't love a video game that deleted itself if you lost one time (and I don't care if in real life you only live once, that's not the point of games.. what is this, russian roulette?? that's not fun, that's torture/execution/suicide!). So I have no problem with last minute death saves from those potions (the ones people complain that they are stockpiling) finally getting used, or elixirs of life needing to be found to revive that beloved character (people get attached to their heroes believe it or not even though it's little more than a hastily thought up nickname on a piece of paper). Sure I guess you could force someone to play a different hero, but at a certain point it's already bad enough they lost, now you're going to punish them, this will make some players just not want to come back (not saying you should coddle sore losers either, just saying, especially if you're dealing with younger/new players this isn't usually that great... what is this, Dark Souls??).

14) Getting rid of roll to move!
I loved BardicBroadcast's meme video too, but why is getting rid of roll to move better? It's like people who insist that modular dungeons are always better than the HeroQuest dungeons. Just because you are more familiar with that, maybe? But rolling dice is fun. Flipping over cards is fun. Maybe to some people just always moving the same number of squares or looking up tables is more fun. Some people think it's boring to roll a die that only has six sides. I disagree. That's the game we grew up playing and I still like it. Each to their own, but even when I do allow heroes to not have to roll to move, THEY STILL USUALLY JUST ROLL TO MOVE (again because rolling dice is fun). Now if I'm Zargon and I'm rolling all the dice for me and for all four heroes, that can get a little much on those long campaigns, but usually rolling dice is one of the few actions a person gets to do on our streams, since we can't all be at the same table at once. You could give the heroes unlimited movement for all I care, but it usually just means they're in too much of a hurry anyway (how is getting 4 squares automatically that much fun for a hero?) and will run straight into traps/rooms full of monsters.

15) Paying for upkeep, taxes, etc.
I see this less often but I also see it suggested a few times by various people. While the whole idea of adding a more varied and deep roleplaying experience kind of sounds fun at first (and I'm sure it has something to do with other RPGs people enjoy out there like D&D) but to me it gets in the way of the action. HeroQuest is about exploring the maze, getting the treasure, killing the monsters and taking home the glory (if you can live to tell the tale!). To me the gold you get paid is pure profit that is intended to upgrade your equipment between quests (and later, to hire mercenaries and buy potions to keep you alive for the even harder quests ahead). The idea that the Emperor pays you a salary or you make money on your side gig is kind of cool but ultimately all of that other expenditure is boring. Sure, we can assume you have to bath, go to the toilet, repair your gear at the local tailor not just the blacksmith shop, eat, sleep, go to therapy after the horrors you've witnessed, visit friends and family, etc. but all of that can happen off camera and in the end whatever money you spent or got evens out so you're back to spending the 100 gold you got on the last quest to put towards that new weapon or piece of armor you need for the next one. Maybe some people enjoy that other stuff but to me it adds needless complexity. Some have suggested gambling for more gold between quests (the Japanese edition used this to level up rather than get more gold) or maybe paying to store excess gear, that's fine, but I think the other stuff is overboard. At some point you're just making your own game with the HQ assets as markers for your AD&D or pathfinder campaign (which is fine, just not my cup of tea!).

16) Dice rolls for simple actions.
This is more just a general pet peeve. Some people like dice rolling so much (or they just got rid of it by eliminating "roll to move" so they want some of that back) that they want you to roll dice for stuff you normally don't have to roll for. What would be the extra fun in rolling to see if the treasure is not really treasure, or whether you can retrieve something on the ground that you're trying to pick up or if the spell you're trying to use works (usually it just WORKS and the only rolling is to see if the enemy can resist it, which to me is all the complexity you really need most of the time, or maybe with a summoning spell to see how many creatures are summoned this time). When it comes to random events I'd much rather draw a card than consult a table or (frankly) roll yet another die. Keep it simple. I don't mind certain actions being "free" with a guaranteed outcome. I think this is a strength of the game, not a weakness. Others disagree.

17) Zargon sucks, get rid of him!
Why do people love (true) solo quests so much? Yes I sympathize if you have "no friends" or your family is sick and tired of playing "that damn game" one more time... but to me playing Zargon is FUN. Apparently even Milton Bradley thought people wouldn't want to be Zargon so the original edition had you rolling dice to see who drew the short straw and "had" to be him (Morcar in that edition). Hasbro continued the trend through Avalon Hill's "Board Game Companion App." Let me tell you it shows. No matter how good AI gets these days, the automated Zargon lacks creativity, and he's rather annoying (though kudos for getting him to work at all, to the designers). Being a GM is so much fun especially in HeroQuest where 99% of the work is already done for you (and riffing and improvising once you get the basics down is tons of fun). Yes, it's nice to be able to play as a hero for a change, but most of the time I would rather be playing with a human GM who loves the game, rather than a computer or drawing random cards only to find myself in some room that makes no sense or is dull and boring. I've tried various ways of playing solo, and while some of them are interesting (like having little tiles moving around like the blip tokens in Space Crusade) I think it really detracts from the enjoyment of the game. Yes, occasionally you'd have a bad experience with some GM but usually it's fine, if not great. If you've only ever played HeroQuest Solo, I feel for you. Get to a game shop or hop online and setup a game... it's SOO much better. This is how the game is meant to be played! If I want a solo quest I'm more likely to just fire up a video game anyway, personally...

18) No shopping allowed!
This often comes up with Kellar's Keep but can also be applied to other quests. Again citing "realism" people say they don't want to let the heroes "go shopping" between quests. This takes a lot of fun out of the game because now you're (even more unrealistically) carrying around hundreds or thousands of gold coins and with no way to spend them. To compensate for the boredom of no shopping now Zargon is modifying the quests to add more gear and potions to find, maybe adding traveling merchants, etc. and you're right back where you started all because you found it "unrealistic" that they could exist this particular dungeon and visit an armorer or alchemist to get some stuff then head back to the next leg of the journey. I think at a certain point you might as well ask why the Empire didn't just outfit you all with the gear you needed from the start and having porters carrying your extra gear the whole way? The point is that the game gives you a sense of accomplishment as you progress and earn things and increase your power as your challenges increase. It's a natural enough thing to enjoy this, so I don't see the improvement in fun by taking it all away just because "it wouldn't make sense" that you'd step away from the mission, even though some quests explicitly write in the setting that it would make perfect sense (for example in Frozen Horror quests take place near towns and villages or else it's implied you would have left and come back to deliver a prisoner to safety, etc. so plenty of opportunities to shop even if it's such an "urgent" mission, etc).

19) When the action stops, the quest is over.
This is more a question of quest design. Many players are too impatient. Any backtracking or periods where there is no combat or a big treasure being found and they get antsy. Unfortunately there are some classic quests that end with a "slog to the stairs." If this were a video game you wouldn't get to complain because the game would force you to move to the exit even though you've "accomplished your mission" (even though part of your mission was to get back to the stairs alive, not just kill the bad guy and find the artifact). Still, this is another reason to have a live Zargon, because you can beg and plead (hopefully not whine and complain) that it's "so boring" and just have him end the quest right then and there. As kids we had more patience, dreaming about the stuff we'd buy with the gold we found and doing a "victory lap" to the end (plus, rolling dice is fun). I can sympathize with a lot of groups especially if the quest design is wanting and people are tired at the end of the night, etc. This is one of those areas where I'm kind of annoyed but I can roll with it so I have done this on occasion or modified the quest to try to have "non-stop action/threat" to keep things going to the bitter end.

Any others I missed? Maybe Dual Wielding (cool idea, but does this mean you get double attacks every turn now just because you bought another weapon)? Again, not to berate anyone who loves these rules, exercise your freedom and have at it! I don't mind at all that there are two dozen or so expanded Armories out there and they all pretty much feature the same weapon options (bastard sword, great sword, short bow, long bow, cloak, bracers, spear, halberd, rapier, sling, war hammer, throwing axe, tower shield, buckler, boots of speed, and usually some type of magical armor or magical weapon intended for the wizard, or even some kind of "leveling system" you can cash in with gold). Or they give you potions that just let you break rules (a potion that lets you use a shield and battle axe at the same time, a potion that lets you move/disarm traps/etc without rolling or lets you do part of your movement and action and then the rest of your movement... I'm surprised I haven't yet seen a potion that lets you move diagonally or search a room that you're not in at the moment! that's fine whatever people want it's just something I would rarely do that blatantly).

I know I can be hypocritical on some of these things. Sometimes I care more about realism in one area so I'll change it, while leaving something blatantly goofy in another place well enough alone. Sometimes I'll sigh at the people who buy unique miniatures for every character, and meanwhile I own some unique minis that I like to use for some of those occasions (just as I like to print new cards, I also am fine with other things just because a line of text that you write down). We're still having fun talking about it, right? And if I'm at your game table and you play this way, I'm not going to argue (at the table). And what's with people trying to build 3d dungeons? 3d dungeons look so cool! But good luck storing them and re-arranging them for each new quest (if you can, more power to ya, I'll admire from afar for now!). |_P
Last edited by Kurgan on November 21st, 2023, 1:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.


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Re: Common internet Homebrew Rules I Don't Use

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » April 4th, 2023, 8:46 am

It's funny as I prepared this post over the weekend, but just didn't get around to posting it yet...turns out either great minds do think alike or fools seldom differ...

House Rule Bloopers

I watched a couple of HeroQuest house rule compendiums on YouTube over the weekend, mostly covering material from social media, and whilst I don't wish to discourage anyone from house ruling, as it is both necessary and fun, I did pick up on a couple of bloopers that I wanted to share.

"The roll to move mechanism is dumb and like a kid’s game so we scrapped that and did fixed movement. We also didn't like the fact that you always knew who could strike first when you found monsters because HeroQuest doesn't have an initiative roll, so we made a new rule when you find monsters you have to roll a dice and add mods and the monsters roll a dice and add mods, to see who goes first."

Guess what, the roll-to-move mechanism that you scrapped combined with the fixed monster movement acts as an in-built initiative mechanism! If on your turn you are 8 squares away from a monster then you roll your movement dice and you may get a high enough roll to move to the monster and attack it, or you may get a lower roll so that you have to stop short and cannot attack the monster, who in all likely will then attack you first on its turn. This may depend on the movement score of the monster, some of which have a low score, like the Zombie, that reflects their low initiative as well as their shambling gait.

"We added house rules so all monsters had weapons and armour that the heroes could take when they killed them, and a rule so that they could sell their stuff back to the armoury, which was great, but we didn't like the fact that HeroQuest has no advancement system, and really quickly our Heroes had tonnes of equipment and gold and nothing to buy, so we let them buy extra AD, DD, MP and BP for 500GC each, now they are well cool, my hero has 17 AD, 15 DD, 24 BP and 14 MP. The other thing I don't like is that the game is too easy, even a room filled with Ogres can be cleared in a couple of turns without my superhero even getting a scratch...”

HeroQuest has an advancement mechanism, gold found in dungeons as a reward for killing monsters in a room, plus gold as a Quest reward for completing a Quest successfully, is used between Quest to buy upgrades that level up your stats in the guise of buying equipment. By allowing Heroes to pick up monster equipment (free upgrades) and sell equipment back to the Armoury at 50% of cost, therefore effectively reducing the price of levelling up by 50%, you have broken the advancement system causing your Heroes to level-up too fast and beyond the design parameters of the game which is why it is now unbalanced!
:skull: = one hit
:blackshield: = one hit & pushback
:whiteshield: = cancels one hit

HQ versions: "Original" - 1989 1st edition & 1990 2nd edition, "Remake" - 1990 NA remake & 2021 reprint

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1BP = :goblin: :orc: :skeleton: :zombie:
2BP = :fimir: :mummy: :chaoswarrior:
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Re: Common internet Homebrew Rules I Don't Use

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » April 5th, 2023, 7:34 am

1) Walk up to Chests to Open Them.

I do use this rule, it isn’t a homebrew rule from the point of view of the SE, although from a NA edition POV it may be considered as such. The reasons why and discussion thread is here: How Treasure chests work in the EU rules (LONG)

2) NERF (tm) Crossbow restrictions.
Quite a few crossbow related comments here, many of which are covered under the Crossbow Argument and Crossbow--2 handed or can use a shield? threads

Personally I’m not sold on the idea that the Crossbow is over-powered, but remain open on the subject, but if I was to restrict its power I would impose a “cannot move and shoot” restriction, which then creates ‘space’ to implement a Crossbow Pistol and Repeater Crossbow as extra weapons to aid the advancement system in later expansions. I personally don’t accept ‘realism’ as a justification although internal consistency, game balance, simplicity, a more efficient fun engine are all accepted justifications!

3) NERF (tm) Longsword restriction.
I don’t think I have seen this one before but I don’t have and have never had any intention to make the Longsword two-handed, we already have a perfectly adequate two-handed option for slaughter in the form of a battle axe and I always considered the “longsword” to simply be a sword that is longer than a shortsword, which in turn is a sword that is shorter than the longsword, if you need to start looking up medieval weapon terminology then you are going beyond HQs simplicity.

4) Limited Supply Armory deck.
I do like this idea and have been discussing it somewhere…

In summary it might be faster to shop with the armoury card, but speed of the between quest activities has never been a concern of myself or any of my players (literally I have never had a player complain that the problem with HeroQuest is the amount of time it takes to buy stuff between quests). The “huge” pile of cards in front of everyone is something of an exaggeration, and using cards (and tokens) can mostly relegate updating your character sheet to a Between Quest activity which actually speeds things up a little (BP counters for example) and saves you from having to write down the name of the weapon and how many dice anyway

In terms of not having "enough" cards for everyone and constantly trying to print more, doesn’t make sense to me as the purpose of a limited equipment deck is that you CANNOT buy more than is available – “limited supply” – so the situation of printing more because you don’t have enough never occurs. Using this method means you can introduce more powerful equipment into the deck without risk of it overpowering the game, like Healing Potions as per the Japanese edition. It also avoids the situation where every hero (excluding the Wizard) is decked out in every possible type of weapon and all act as individual one-man bands rather than a team (less fun).

The FE had limited supply based on cards, which is why there were two shields and two helmets

I’ve commented on the realism argument before so see comments above, but remember that our Heroes only exist within the dungeon, they appear in the dungeon and disappear off the board as they leave, all ‘activity’ outside of the dungeon between quests is abstract and happens at the player level no the hero level, players choose Equipment Cards and cross the gold amount off their sheet, any speculation around going to towns, paying blacksmiths, purchasing from wandering traders, having a drink down the local is just speculation and rationalisation of a process that is purely abstract and is a “cloaked” advancement system

5) Limited carrying capacity.

Still thinking about this one, my current plan to limit equipment through the use of cards may render any need, if it exists currently, to limit carrying capacity.

Gold coins are in-game representation of XP, how many Experience Points can a character carry, is a meaningless question

Kurgan wrote:I just play the game the way it was designed on this point. You can write it all on your character sheet and if you don't want something, you sell it off or give it to another hero or drop it in a dark corner of the dungeon and forget about it, whatever.


The game as designed (NA edition) I don’t think allowed selling of equipment until one of the later expansions, do you allow selling prior to that point or only afterwards, what happens if Quests (and expansions are not played in the “correct order”, what happens with home brew Quests that don’t specify?

6) Plate Armor is too slow.

In my experience players generally just don’t buy it because it slows you down rendering it pointless. I have abolished the movement penalty associated with plate, as that felt like a better option to me than scrapping plate armour which is effectively what happens in play when no one buys it.

Discussion here: Plate Mail movement penalty

7) Potions expire.

Discussion here (page 2) Using Wizards of Morcar as a 'parts pack'?

8) Monsters are boring and weak, give them unique abilities.

I’ve read this section a couple of times and I’m not clear what you are objecting to!
For example under my implementation, all goblins are equipped with spears and the scythes that Skeletons are armed with both permit them to attack diagonally.

That seems to match up to your comment (although Goblins rather than Orcs)

Kurgan wrote:…but saying every Orc has this or that skill, …while interesting is just a lot more work for Zargon to do, etc.


Diagonal attack goblins doesn’t seem much more work to me. But it also matches up to your comment

Kurgan wrote:Plus, whatever happened to having some generic monsters? If all goblins have X and Y abilities it's no longer unique or special.


If all my goblins have a diagonal attack ability, which they do, then that isn’t a unique or special ability it is a generic one so they remain generic monsters.

Equally you accept the ability of making a specific monster unique via the Quests notes and making a particular batch of monsters unique for a specific Quest like the Stone Chaos Warrior or in a specific room “All Orcs in this room are armed with crossbows” or whatever so it would be good to know what you are not approving of.

9) Dwarf and Barbarian are boring, give them cards!

I have added a special ability to the Barbarian (the Dwarf already has one) to aid with his advancement and to keep distinction between the Heroes, not sure whether they were boring before and are or aren’t boring now but they are both very popular in the groups that I have played with and the Barbarian tends to be the first Hero chosen (I allow the youngest – in terms of either age or experience - to choose first)

Oh and my Wizard only starts with a modest pile of 6 spells.

10) Searches! People can't decide if they want them simpler or more complex, but they never really save time...

I agree that reduces the number of searches to ‘save time’ but then increasing the time taken by allowing individual furniture item searches does appear to be at cross-purposes.

I play a ruleset based on the SE edition that has two searches, and never understood the reason for NA edition splitting this out to 3 searches (and any clues here would be appreciated). I later reduced this by restricting the search for treasure to rooms only, and by scrapping the search for secret doors and traps altogether by incorporating the finding of secret doors and traps (and the disarming) into the movement and searching (for treasure) functions.
I didn’t do any of these to speed up game play (although to be fair it probably does have that effect), I restricted the search for treasure to rooms only to reduce the total treasure yield as part of extending out the advancement system and making the game a little more challenging and I scrapped the search for secret doors and traps and incorporated it into movement and searching for treasure because it removed a whole host of inconsistencies and issues within the game, like not being able to find traps the other side of an open door amongst others, and makes play smoother, more immersive and the fun engine more efficient!

11) The Wizard sucks. Buff him!

Kurgan wrote: HeroQuest is making each of the heroes unique and they are supposed to (in this version) work together to accomplish the goal. Yes, you could modify the Wizard so he is a tank who needs noone, but then why do that? Now you don't need the other three heroes. Yes, many complain that he has body points that are too low (the Wizard quest pack was going to give him an artifact to remedy that but he had to earn it). Yes, there were going to be special potions only he could use, in this unreleased pack.


My Wizard does have 5MP (technically 5 MD but that is another story) and 5BP but that hardly makes him a tank and he is still by far the weakest in terms of physical endurance of the team and still relies on the others. He can use a shortsword but I wouldn’t regard that as buffing him as the shortsword allows him to roll 2AD on adjacent targets only which when you bear in mind the standard NA edition allows the Wizard to use the Wizard’s staff that gives him 2AD including diagonals, is still relatively poor. The NA edition also gives the Wizard the ability to handle throwing weapons – the dagger – which is surprising for a character that is supposed to have limited martial abilities as he spends his spare time studying scrolls…

Kurgan wrote: Yes, in the EU edition he can use magical armor and magical weapons


I generally find SE players fall into two camps on this topic. The “letter of the law” interpretation that takes the position that the cards don’t state that the Wizard can’t use them so he can and the “spirit of the law” interpretation that looks at it from the viewpoint of “Borin’s Armour’ is basically plate armour, “Orcs’ Bane” is based on a shortsword, “Spirit Blade” is based on a Broadsword and so on, as the Wizard cannot use those equipment cards then he can’t use Quest Treasures that are based on those equipment cards. I fall into the second camp.

12) Door blocking sucks, how to stop it?

I have implemented a few things to mitigate this tactic, I say mitigate as I don’t think that this tactical option should be eliminated, just the effectiveness reduced, so that it becomes a good and effective tactical option in certain scenarios as opposed to just becoming a standard default approach.

Goblins are equipped with spears as standard and Skeletons’ scythes also allow diagonal attacks, this helps mitigate the 3:1 aspect that the Heroes often enjoy. In my own home brew quests, I tend to utilise monsters with missile weapons a little more than the pre-written quests – occasional use of goblins & skeletons with short bows and Orcs with crossbows.

Have added the Wandering Monster roll to Morcar’s turn, so at the end of that turn he gets to roll a combat die and if a black shield is rolled then he may place a WM on any square that is the first square that can be seen by the heroes and move and take an action as usual (although this is more to act as a simple ‘timer’ mechanism than to mitigate door-blocking but in certain situations it also helps mitigate door-blocking and I’m in the process of reviewing the WMs for each Quests as some fell too OP like Chaos Warrior

Implemented a push back rule – link.
Implemented a free attack rule to mitigate the ‘rolling’ aspect of door blocks.

13) Permanent Death.

One hero dying, depending on the situation may well increase the chances of a second hero death which in turn increases the odds of TPK and Heroes needing to repeat the Quest. I’m not stating this as a pro or a con just an observation.

I personally don’t think that the complaint here is entirely down to their being a ‘death save’ within the NA edition (although there is a separate complaint around the unclear wording of the spell aspect) it is more around the stockpiling of healing potions in combination with the death save restoring the full D6 BP, means that heroes have no incentive to use Healing Potions before it happens automatically at the point of death, in fact waiting until it is automatic is the best option to guarantee you get the full effects, and a hero carrying a few of these in a quest effectively becomes invulnerable which removes the element of risk and therefore excitement.

14) Getting rid of roll to move!

Again, as you say it depends on the motivation for the change. I have often heard the claim that removing the roll to move speeds the game up, which logically makes sense if that is what you are trying to achieve, but in practise, I have found that players need a little time to think out their move, they tend to do this whilst other players are taking their turns, removing the time taken to roll the movement dice in my experience tends to end up with that ‘extra’ time just being used by a player having a think, rather than thinking and rolling

The other aspect is that the fixed monster movement combined with variable hero movement acts as a built-in initiative roll. It is your turn and a monster is 8 squares away, you may roll low and not be able to reach and attack the monster on your turn, resulting in them “taking the initiative” and striking first, this means that a low fixed movement roll for a monster, like the Zombie reflects both its lack of speed and lack of initiative, equally a Goblin is quick and quick witted

I’ve also noticed that this is often a good example of attempting to solve a problem before assessing whether a problem is really THE problem. The remove ‘roll to move’ conversation usually crops up following PM’s gold and that long, long walk out hampered by chests (and a couple of quests have a similar but not quite as bad experience), I don’t consider the roll to move to be THE problem here, THE problem is poor Quest design, revisit that.

15) Paying for upkeep, taxes, etc.

Agree with you entirely, I do find myself pointing out that HeroQuest is a great, fun, and simple game, not an accounting software package, I have no interest in tracking how the cost of an arrow varies between neighbouring settlements, “s’all down to supply n demand innit” leave that to the merchants. On this point do you think sales tax varies between settlements…?

The gold you acquire in-dungeon is the equivalent of XP so it is for levelling up your hero, not paying for accommodation and beer (obviously, the beer should be free!)

And, as I think I may have said above, but honestly this is getting so long I’ve lost track, our Heroes only exist within the context of dungeon, they appear when they are placed in dungeon at the start and disappear as they leave at the end, or part-way through in a box, everything else in HeroQuest outside of that happens within the realm of the players and not the heroes.

16) Dice rolls for simple actions.

Again, I agree, if the outcome is binary and highly likely to be successful (or unsuccessful) why bother rolling. I read somewhere that the odds of dying in the bath is 1 in 685,000, assuming our heroes’ bath once between quests, how many six-sided dice do you have to roll and how many sixes do you need to get to avoid this moist fate. (Or maybe you consider this a form of combat between the Hero and the bathtub and should use combat dice)

Drawing cards for anything other than simple outcomes has many advantages over lookup tables, you don’t need to look up the results, you can just add more cards to expand the deck rather than having to rework the table, the same result won’t repeat or at least doesn’t have to and so on

17) Zargon sucks, get rid of him!

Zargon may suck but Morcar certainly does not. Once you have played through a few Quests and got a handle of how it all works, the fun of creating your own quest and running a batch of heroes through it is huge.

18) No shopping allowed!

Again, Gold represents XP, PLAYERS purchase Equipment Cards between quests representing this XP being spent on levelling-up. Check the rulebook, players “purchase” Equipment cards with “gold”, any notion of HEROES travelling to the nearest settlement to order equipment from the local blacksmith or haggle at the general store or encounter a wandering pedlar on the way to town or get a tip-off about a discount sale from an old crone who they bought a drink for in the local tavern, all great, but if the rules don’t work under the narrative that you made up, change the narrative.

19) When the action stops, the quest is over.

Agreed this is a quest design issue not a rule issue and I blame PM’s gold, mostly.
Whole topic on this here

20) Dual Wielding giving you an extra attack.

If having a ‘second’ weapon in my off-hand means I can attack twice (the logic being 2 weapons 2 attacks), then take that weapon away and I’ll clench my fist magically creating a second weapon in my off-hand, so I still get 2 attacks? Obviously, I can also head butt, elbow strike, knee in soft spots and so on, so by that logic if I was a martial arts exponent, perhaps Muay Thai (“the art of eight limbs”) then I would get 8 attacks per turn…yes?
As far as I am aware the rules don’t state anywhere that an attack roll represents one single strike, it represents one attack, which could be a flurry of multiple strikes, in sequence or simultaneously, incorporating feints, parried blows, turned blades, head butts, eye gouges, knee and elbow strikes, just because I have an axe in one hand doesn’t prevent me from hitting you with my other fist (or indeed the shield that I’m holding in it) or delivering a flying headbutt, a second weapon may increase the number of combat dice I roll in my attack, perhaps +1, but not the number of attacks.
Last edited by Bareheaded Warrior on April 6th, 2023, 10:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
:skull: = one hit
:blackshield: = one hit & pushback
:whiteshield: = cancels one hit

HQ versions: "Original" - 1989 1st edition & 1990 2nd edition, "Remake" - 1990 NA remake & 2021 reprint

HQ Golden Rules
FAQs, Errata & Clarifications for the Original Editions
HQ Common Notification System

1BP = :goblin: :orc: :skeleton: :zombie:
2BP = :fimir: :mummy: :chaoswarrior:
3BP = :gargoyle:


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Re: Common internet Homebrew Rules I Don't Use

Postby Kurgan » April 5th, 2023, 11:31 am

The bigger point I'm making is not that home brewing shouldn't be done, but more that the reasons people give for these popular rules don't always make as much sense as they would at first glance, and create other problems, depending upon what other rules are created to solve the challenges caused by the new house rules. One weapon is made more realistic, while other unrealistic weapons are untouched (or made more unrealistic to compensate). Adding flavor can be done without changing the rules, and I agree that the imagination can rationalize rules back and forth (and it's kind of a fun game in itself to imagine it). This to me is a much cleaner, simpler way of handling things than adding another mechanic to make the game even more complex to simulate every possible thing people can think of (as in an RPG like CyberPunk).

Selling stuff back to the armory at half price was a common house rule that was "made official" in the 1992 expansions that we never owned back in the day. In the above I wasn't excluding official expansions, notice I included the Alchemist shops which don't exist in the Game System. So in a biased way we started out with the GS, KK and ROTWL, so we knew about things like spell scrolls and purchasable potions, before we knew that you could "officially" sell stuff back. In the EU edition there was no selling back, and no buying potions either, period. The sole exception is the Potion of Alchemy in Wizards of Morcar that let you turn one piece of equipment into 100 gold coins. There was no way to stockpile these cards and so you had one opportunity to find it per quest in that very short expansion of 5 quests (also there was no dagger to turn into gold in the EU edition). Heroes were never going to get rich with this thing, since it was just a way to get rid of a piece of equipment, rather than profit from it (though some clever players may have argued that their newly "rusted" weapon/armor was actually turned to gold so at the very least they could get some money if they survived this boss fight!). Of course the same is true for all sales in the NA edition... it's a loss unless it truly was something you were just going to throw away and didn't need (finding actual pieces of equipment is rare in the official quests... where it really comes into play is in the EQP/BQP and especially the latter).

The cards limiting supply thing in the first edition was a house rule, not supported by the second edition or the adventure design kit, which instead clarified the intention was that you write the thing down. Only ever allowing two of the party of heroes to wear helmets seems silly, as this is never remedied. I could imagine some justifying that the hero who didn't have body armor (Wizard and two others can buy theirs) finds Borin's Armor eventually. It's certainly less realistic, but more importantly I find it less fun.

I know people are going to disagree with me, precisely because these "common rules" are so popularly passed around. Somebody likes them and somebody passes them on! So no harm if you like them.

The "piles of cards" thing to me is because If you limit supply to cards, and you want to have "enough" equipment that means printing lots of extra cards. Now you need at least 3 of everything (sometimes four). If the Wizard carries four daggers, you need four "dagger" cards now, etc. I think most people won't actually do this, but the proposal is that you need (want) a card for each item. Hence you have people making cards and printing them out for all of the quest treasure (notes invented) items, and even each instance of something. I haven't yet seen people try to print cards for each instance of a potion (remember "Potion Hoarder Edition"). Yes, if you combine "cards limit supply" with "everything has a card" and "potions expire" you can start to limit it. But the simple way is that you write the stuff down on your character sheet and return the card to the deck (or to the "discard pile") and keep your character space relatively clean. The Wizard has his 9 cards he turns over as he uses them. The Elf has his three. Nobody else needs anything but their character sheet and character tile/board by their spot (which in the NA edition serves the purpose of reminding of turn order AND reminding what you can do on your turn, and you can turn over when your character dies and place the miniature by your spot). It's true the way a lot of kids played is that they hung onto "good" cards they got in the treasure deck, not just artifacts, until they were "used up" or lost, when in reality it doesn't say you're supposed to do this ("it is then discarded" I guess kind of implies it, but the instructions booklet says to return the treasure cards to the deck at the end of the quest, even though the heroes already wrote those on their character sheet, so they could "stockpile" the heroic brew if they wanted, that's not cheating in the NA edition, but if people insist on holding onto the card what happens... does it get shuffled back in mid-quest once it is used, or is it just out of the quest now?).

Not really a house rule,(and I love creating dice rolling trays, not a fan of dice towers though I can understand the appeal), but those cardboard trays that come with the game, those can serve as dice rolling boxes very easily (then again as kids I remember we just rolled right on the board like we did for all board games, and half the time we knocked over figures or a die would roll off the table, heh). Instead we used those cardboard trays for Zargon to sort what he was about to put on the table (usually one for furniture and one for monsters) and the board could be pushed off to the side.

The funny thing about house rules is that there is nostalgia for how people played back in the day, so if they "played it wrong" or made up new rules, why not continue them for old time's sake? I changed some of the way I played as a kid when I learned the "real intended way" was more fun, or when I was playing with other people who didn't take those special rules for granted (to be more open and accommodating to a variety of styles), but I've kept the rules we find fun. People could argue that the rules I introduce tend to add more to people's piles, which in turn makes turns take longer, which makes games last longer. It provides more interest for adults who are "bored" with basic HeroQuest (but are still looking for something simpler than your D&D or your CyberPunk session). But people who wanted their buffed Wizard or their "OP" crossbow may still be disappointed, and I'm happy to let them make their changes, just question whether these popular rules are really some kind of objective improvement. After all, an internet historian researching HeroQuest might come away with the idea that this was some kind of "fan community bible" on a new edition of the game, or something, as if we all agree (and as everyone knows, we agree on very little, except that we enjoy the game, in whatever form we are playing!).

The canonical order of quests thing is more a phenomenon of the Remake (so important and pressing it was that Avalon Hill made several official announcements on social media about it).
The bottom line there is that this ONLY matters in terms of the concept of a "writers' bible." That is, the owners/designers of the game are setting limits for themselves as to how they will write the story. Of course since this is fantasy and because of the genre (lookup "retcon"), anything can happen if the writers want it to, and they will only hold to this so long as it is profitable, based on a perception of acceptance by the majority of paying customers. They cannot expect every player to wait until they own the Mythic tier to start playing HeroQuest. If players insist on playing in canonical order, that will stall the game until they can acquire everything (what are people supposed to do who missed the pledge drive or can't afford scalper prices... are they supposed to just "pirate" it?). Of course this could all be a big tease that not just Prophecy of Telor but EVERYTHING will eventually come out. Still, if I'm a Zargon player, am I really content to wait until those things are put up for sale again before I continue playing? But I digress again...

Yes, we have had discussions about whether BQP comes after EQP (most said yes based on difficulty, no other reason) or whether KK comes before ROTWL (yes, they said, only because it was "less realistic" that the Emperor was partying it up with the heroes celebrating their victory while he was holed up with his besieged army in the caverns at the same time). With Against the Ogre Horde "played as a series" that was recieved as being "more realistic" by several people, and a similar logic was applied by them to Kellar's Keep. Of course in the EU edition there is no Alchemist Shop, and if you are using a veteran band of heroes, chances are you really don't need to buy anything by this point, do you? So now it's all "more boring" just finding the occasional healing potion or gold (to keep as insurance in case someone dies and loses all their gear I suppose and has to re-equip). Rust is a very rare Chaos spell, so fearing you're going to lose something from it is really not that big a deal (except in the moment). So maybe you have to replace one big weapon or piece of armor every half dozen quests or so (except when you run across that Fimir that has three uses of Rust). Of course here I'm assuming you're not also playing through the EU quests with NA rules, but only the NA official quests, using the popular homebrew rules people talk about. It's also less of a criticism if you're not using every single one of these (who does that? but they are often grouped together on lists as if advertising that you SHOULD use most/all of them together to make the game "better"). I say you play the quests in whatever order you want. If you and your friends want to try out a new expansion even if you haven't played the one that came before it, go for it. Even the makers of EQP/BQP kind of anticipated this. Yes on the one hand they "saved space" with their Alchemist Shop and encouraged you to use other Alchemist Shops from other packs (but carefully made sure not to throw so many monsters at you that you needed those other expansions to "do it properly" on the board; Avalon Hill did this recently with the Mage of the Mirror giving you "permission" to use the mercenaries from Frozen Horror if you wanted in the group quests, but that's the remake again). But they also put in the solo quests, ostensibly because they wanted to be able to bring in a brand new player who had NOT already completed all 14 of the original quests first (much less any expansions that were supposed to take place afterward). The "canonical order" will keep changing unless they have restricted themselves to only writing new quests from now on that take place after the last one that came out (what are they going to do, set the Dwarf, Wizard, Against the Ogre Horde, Wizards of Zargon? etc AFTER Rise of the Dread Moon next?). I don't have a problem "going back in time" (for those players, it may be their very first game, and starting over with a new hero isn't such a big deal, especially if it's an easier quest). Makes me wonder if "Rise of the Dread Moon" is planned to be even more difficult than Mage of the Mirror (that wasn't quite as tough as Frozen Horror, though both were "nerfed" and I don't object, by Avalon Hill in their remake editions and supplements).

But I keep tossing the remake in here, I meant to really talk about the house rules people passed around in that in-between time from when the game went out of print to the new release. Some things change with the remake and some don't. Some people really want to play exactly the way Avalon Hill says to play, for instance, which is fine, because they both say "play like this" and they also say "play however you want to." So if you want to "follow the designers' intention," you're always doing it, no matter what! :mrgreen:


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Re: Common internet Homebrew Rules I Don't Use

Postby The Admiral » April 5th, 2023, 4:59 pm

Thanks for that excellent analysis Kurgan, it made for an interesting read. Here's my slightly briefer response, based purely on how I play.
1) Walk up to chests - Yes you must.
2) Crossbow restrictions - Yes, two handed weapon.
3) Longsword restrictions - No.
4) Limited armoury - No.
5) Limited carrying - No, but I limit what you can wield. Switching from that crossbow to a longsword and shield will take an action.
6) Plate armour too slow - Indeed it is. 1d10 for Barbarians and Dwarves, 1d8 for humans, 1d6 for Elves.
7) Potions expire - No.
8) Monsters boring - No.
9) Dwarf and Barbarian boring - All Heroes get a chance to train and upgrade.
10) Searches - All 3 if you please.
11) Wizard sucks - Hell No! He is our most powerful character now with learning new spells instead of training, and artifacts turning him into an absolute powerhouse. We recently agreed that he could single handedly wipe out all the other Heroes without really breaking sweat.
12) Door blocking sucks - Yes it does. Evil Wizard cards.
13) Permanent death - Oh yes.
14) Getting rid of roll to move - No.
15) Paying for upkeep - No.
16) Dice roll for simple actions - No.
17) Zargon Sucks - Zargon Rocks!
18) No shopping allowed - If you are stepping through a door from one board to another deep within an enemy fortress, then really? Oh! I'm just pooping back to ASDA, anyone want any Doritoes?
19) When the action stops the quest is over - Yes.


Rewards:
Grin's Stone Map Slain a measly Goblin! Slaughtered an Orc! Killed a mighty Fimir! Shattered a Skeleton! Destroyed a Zombie! Unravelled a Mummy! Crushed a powerful Chaos Warrior! Smashed a massive Gargoyle! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock! Encountered all eight (8) Game System monsters.
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Re: Common internet Homebrew Rules I Don't Use

Postby millyrainbow » April 6th, 2023, 3:13 am

I dont post here too often(and i probably should seeing as i HAVE a heroquest dedicated discord), but since i made quite an extensive post on said discord, i'll go on and send it here too for your viewable pleasure.

1.)
I still have my players open chests separately. We do tend to skip movement turns outside of combat when in areas theyve already been through. So i have them place their peeps in the room/next to the chest when they open them. That said I also keep both chests and the room as separate searches, allowing me to add much more devious and locationed traps (like a mimic that shoots lightning on its opening turn, or a poison gas that covers x radius in tiles)
I just think it makes more sense. That said i know this is not vanilla even if i sometimes forget that when making things for HeroQuest

5.)
I dont do limited carrying capacity. I instead limit items you can bring into quests. I dont really have lore reason for why, its strictly for balancing purposes. It makes it a lot harder for my players to hoard up 8 room stunlocking scrolls (also not vanilla :P) or things like that and then using them to kill bosses or tough rooms without effort. There is room for argument that they should be able to do that realistically and part of the fun can be had in those moments.. but ive found its very easy to cheese the game this way, and allowing my players to do it has had them burn out fast in previous campaigns.. so ive taken steps to make it harder
Is it needed for vanilla though? Maaaaybe? But with the limited amount of everything that you already are allowed to bring in, and the fact that all useable items you find in the quest vanishing into the ether once you complete the quest.. i think its pretty well balanced. (this also includes quest found potions. I think bought potions are exempt)

6.)
Realistically platemail doesnt slow you down in the least, and anyone that thinks it would hasnt worn or seen people wearing platemail.
Also i didnt know it slowed you down. O: Is this an EU thing?

7.)
See point 5. Also this is silly.
8.)
I can definitely see this point. The vanilla game already has a handful of quests where 'x enemy has this ability'. I think if your players are having too easy of a time, giving the enemies some skills, or introducing different variants of the same monster (like orc crosbowmen for example) will help spice things up. Its not totally vanilla, but its still very much in the spirit of vanilla, so long as its used correctly and used in relation to your group and their progress.

9.)
Dwarfs ability sucks. Hes literally just got a trap disarmer on him and thats it. 90% of the time my players are searching for traps already, and thusly rarely step on them. they still forget to check the chests sometimes though fwufufufufu!
Barbarian can stay as he is. Hes still better than everyone, and everyone, including Crom, knows it.

10.)
I can simpithize with this for sure. I sometimes think it can be a bit much. If you slowly break your players into remembering their searches, and you tackle them all in one fell swoop, its not that bad. Honestly, combat is more tedious especially in the early game. "Oh i missed. Oh they missed.. Oh i missed... Oh they missed.. Oh i finally hit.. 1 damage.. they have 1 more.. Oh they missed.. oh i missed.."

11.)
Wizard doesnt suck. people just cant play him for cheese. They either hoard their spells, or spend them all. And most of the time i hear wizard players complaining, its because they dont synergize with elf to make the most of the spells. (unpopular belief i know, but ive seen it happen a few times in my own campaigns, and it DRIVES me up the wall as a Zargon)
He can be further alleviated by introducing new spell schools, which you can already do with Wizards of Morcar, which add some really interesting spells to any promising wizards grimoires

12.)
Door blocking can be stopped by not moving enemies to the door :P Barbarian wants to stand in the door? Add a thing that says, so long as only 1 hero is in the room, all monsters can throw rocks that do 1 bp of damage each and you must roll to defend against them all in 1 roll. Thatll get the stupid barbarian player to actually move into the room and not be an idiot. If the elf/dwarf do the same, make it so more than 2 heros need to be in the room.

13.)
If i recall correctly, in the NA version, you have to get the equipment off the fallen hero in order to bring it back. Monsters can take stuff as well, and the items vanish from the game entirely i do believe. Its been a while since i looked in the book for this, so i could be thinking of a houserule someone told me once.

14.)
Move roll outside of combat in areas youve already been in is usually fine. You might skip over a trap here or there, but my players generally do the same thing with the move rolls as the do without. Line up next to an edge of unknown, either a corner or door, skip a turn, then start the next turn with fresh move rolls. At that point you're just going through the motion to go through the motion. Combat rolls and rolls to go into the unknown are required though, the former being obvious and the latter because your move could start combat.
15.)
There are better, lore friendlier, more faithful ways to create money sinks. Making it convoluted with taxes is just plainly silly.

17.)
I can see the desire for a solo quest, for when you only have you and/or your mate. But to get rid of him entirely is silly. Zargon is what makes the game run. Hes what makes the balancing decisions, constantly juggling challenge, and entertainment for the players experience. Sure if you dont have enough players to play with a zargon, cool beans. But that is not ever going to be nearly as fulfilling as it will with a good game master.

18.)
I sometimes have joining quests. Like for example, my players went to a forgotten temple, and then got teleported into another dimension.. these two quests were linked together, and played as if they were one after the other. BUT
this is really the only time i ever stop shopping. Its more for immersion purposes. I havent done kellers keep though, and if its all just one big quest, then i would probably just make it so that 'you find a goblin selling goods' between quests. Not having that shop is good as a sometimes thing to help accentuate the length of the journey, but should never be a permanent thing. Thats just silly.
19.)
I think if the players have been through roughly every room, and theyre ready to end the quest, then the quest is done. My players do try to finish the main 'objective' of the quests before leaving (sometimes because theyre low on health and/or supplies). And technically you can leave the quest whenever, it even says so in the NA manual, but.. my players tend to try and search every nook and cranny so it works out. I dont know how i would handle players that didnt enjoy the exploration of the map.

Dual wiedling i think my players and i have decided that you just add an extra die to your combat rolls. And if your holding two weapons and one of them can attack twice(like my sword of the rabbit artifact), then you add an extra die to your first roll, but not the second.
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Re: Common internet Homebrew Rules I Don't Use

Postby Kurgan » April 6th, 2023, 12:39 pm

Welcome! You should share your discord invite link here too.. ;)

Plate Armor slowing you down has always been there. I like your dual wielding idea. It doesn't double your attack (it's hard to dual wield!) but still improves it a little. I'll keep that in mind!


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Re: Common internet Homebrew Rules I Don't Use

Postby millyrainbow » April 8th, 2023, 3:16 am

Kurgan wrote:Welcome! You should share your discord invite link here too.. ;)

Plate Armor slowing you down has always been there. I like your dual wielding idea. It doesn't double your attack (it's hard to dual wield!) but still improves it a little. I'll keep that in mind!

Im pretty sure someones already made an official post with the link. but i might follow up on it P:

And yeah, i have a handful of houserules that i use. My goal in general is to use what heroquest already comes with, and to keep the simplicity of what i bring into it. Like the monster modifiers i use are super simple, ranging from 'you cant use spells or scrolls with this enemy nearby' to 'this mod gives enemies +2 bp' Nothing ground breaking P:
If you want to make the game more complex, play advanced heroquest, or warhammerquest.
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Re: Common internet Homebrew Rules I Don't Use

Postby The Admiral » April 8th, 2023, 4:23 am

millyrainbow wrote:And yeah, i have a handful of houserules that i use. My goal in general is to use what heroquest already comes with, and to keep the simplicity of what i bring into it. Like the monster modifiers i use are super simple, ranging from 'you cant use spells or scrolls with this enemy nearby' to 'this mod gives enemies +2 bp' Nothing ground breaking P:
If you want to make the game more complex, play advanced heroquest, or warhammerquest.


I wouldn't consider either of those games complex, but I know what you mean. I make some simple changes to some monsters based on the logic of the game. Fimirs clearly have a battleaxe so they get 4 attack dice, Chaos Warriors have plate armour and a helmet so they gain a defence die, and skeletons have a long two handed weapon so they can attack diagonally. These all increas the monsters effectiveness slightly, which I think they need. I also upgrade my Gargoyle with an extra att die defence die and BP.


Rewards:
Grin's Stone Map Slain a measly Goblin! Slaughtered an Orc! Killed a mighty Fimir! Shattered a Skeleton! Destroyed a Zombie! Unravelled a Mummy! Crushed a powerful Chaos Warrior! Smashed a massive Gargoyle! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock! Encountered all eight (8) Game System monsters.
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Making HeroQuest "Realistic/Accurate"... ?

Postby Kurgan » April 14th, 2023, 12:44 pm

Expanding off a new topic... (more half baked exploration of "realism" and "you should be able to..." type things)


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