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[Quest Pack] [12 Quests] - Heralds of Chaos

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Re: [Preview] [Quest Pack] [12 Quests] - Heralds of Chaos

Postby Daedalus » July 26th, 2015, 2:43 pm

Count Mohawk wrote:
Daedalus wrote:In Quest 4, The Chapel in Shadow, a blocked square tile is needed at the outer end of the middle-right corridor, under the two Paladins. May the Underworld Trident be recovered if thrown by a Hero, or is it lost?

Fixed the missing block.
The Underworld Trident, as written / as intended, is currently not lost when thrown and can be retrieved after the figure hit with it dies. But I am starting to wonder, is the ability too strong? Given enough turns, the Trident will eventually kill off any monster, potentially trivializing combat.

That's a good point about guaranteeing a monster death--just throw and run after an undefended hit. Also, the Artifact Card and entry in the artifact table at the Quest have two inconsistencies. First, the table states that when the trident is thrown and hits a monster, it will suffer the ongoing damage. As a hit may be immediately defended, a monster may successfully defend the thrown attack and yet later be killed by it. I prefer how the Artifact Card handles things, where the monster will suffer the ongoing damage only if the thrown trident reduces a monster's Body Points. Second, the table has a named monster exception as a power cap while the card doesn't.

Here's my attempt at squeezing it all in the card text, if you're still interested. It dropped a bit of the color description, but gains the same font size and border margins as the Chaos spell Ice Wall from the BQP for better readability:

    This cursed weapon can drain the life of a
    victim. When using it, you roll three combat
    dice and may attack diagonally. You may also
    throw this trident at any monster in line-of-
    sight and retrieve it if no monsters are
    visible. A monster loses 1 Body Point at the
    start of its future turns if you reduce its Body
    Points when throwing the trident. Does not
    affect named monsters. May not be used
    with a shield. May not be used by the Wizard.

The next version would print out with the same font size as other artifacts at the cost of a bit more abbreviation. In particular, I less specifically went with "on future turns", much like Cloud of Chaos and some expansion spells. The assumption is "on future turns" = on the throwing Hero's future turns as the monster may not defend.

    This cursed weapon can drain the life of
    a victim. When using it, you roll 3 combat
    dice and may attack diagonally. You may
    also throw this trident at any monster in
    line-of-sight and retrieve it after combat.
    A monster loses 1 Body Point on future
    turns if you reduce its Body Points when
    throwing the trident. Does not affect
    named monsters. May not be used with
    a shield. May not be used by the Wizard.

I'm even inspired to rehaul the weapon as a spear and cap the power in two different ways. (Excuse my enthusiasm.)

        Impaler

    When using this barbed spear, you roll 2
    combat dice and may attack diagonally.
    You may also throw this weapon at any
    monster you can "see" and retrieve it after
    combat. If you throw and reduce the Body
    Points of a monster, it must roll a combat
    die on its future turns. It will lose 1 Body
    Point if a skull is rolled, but a black shield
    will end the effect. May not be used with a
    shield. May not be used by the Wizard.

    ____________________________________

    When using this barbed spear, you roll 2
    combat dice and may attack diagonally.
    You may also throw this weapon at any
    monster you can "see" and retrieve it after
    combat. If you throw this spear and reduce
    a monster's Body Points, the monster will
    lose 1 Body Point on future turns. This
    ends the turn after it uses an action to
    remove the spear. May not be used with a
    shield. May not be used by the Wizard.

Count Mohawk wrote:...Secondly, Bane's lichness is not on the same level as the Witch Lord's: while the Witch Lord can apparently reanimate any number of times, given a few hundred years between his various defeats, Bane will be rendered properly dead the instant the Heroes break his soul jar. If this explanation is inconsistent with the establish Hero Quest lore, please let me know so I can adjust the storyline.

In Quest 14, Return to Barak Tor, the Witch Lord merely needs to be defeated to stop his army from marching on the Emperor's forces. When defeated, he vanishes in a puff of foul smoke. However, in A Message from Mentor preceding the Return of the Witch Lord Quests, it is up to the Heroes "...to destroy the Witch Lord once and for all." In Quest 10, The Court of the Witch Lord, the Witch Lord must be killed before reading the conclusion of the Quest Booklet. Finally, in the opening text of AtOH, Morcar ponders the slaying of the Witch Lord.

I had figured that meant no more returns for the Witch Lord, but you have an interesting angle. Seems to me your reanimation scenario for the Witch Lord works fine, as "once and for all" could apply to just the time of the Heroes. I could definitely see the powerful magic or spirit of the Witch Lord ultimately overcoming death once again.
..
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Re: [Preview] [Quest Pack] [12 Quests] - Heralds of Chaos

Postby Count Mohawk » July 27th, 2015, 10:44 pm

I reconsidered the Underworld Trident's power level over the weekend and came to the conclusion that as long as the Heroes can't cheap out the special 'named' monsters, the Throw ability, while strong, is not broken. Since the attack is only 3 combat dice strong, it's hardly guaranteed to damage its target (about a 63% chance vs a Chaos Warrior, or a 57% chance vs a Gargoyle). Additionally, the injured monster will still get a couple of turns to fight back before dying, and the Heroes only get one chance per room at cursing something. Sure, if they run away at the start of every fight they can get some free kills, but that type of behavior is the sort of thing M/Z players should be punishing anyway.

Although I did read your text suggestions for the card, I ended up overhauling the Trident's text block myself. It's still longer than usual, but the font is now the same size as on the other Artifacts. The card's text is the intended version; I will correct the table at the back of the PDF later. Also featured is the AlterQuest version of the card:
ImageImage

Daedalus wrote:I'm even inspired to rehaul the weapon as a spear and cap the power in two different ways. (Excuse my enthusiasm.)

Go for it. I'm not sure which one I like better overall; I leaned towards the first one for a bit but then realized that the second one deals more overall damage unless the Impaled monster lives for at least three turns. (Lose 1 Body Point and skip half a turn is the most likely outcome, although Ogres and similar heavies may just suck it up for a while.)

On a similar tack to the two sample 'Impaler' weapons, I have a throwing spear in my armory called the Pilum which operates on similar principles. Although Pilums can only be thrown (they lack a melee or Diagonal option), any monster damaged by them has its Defend value permanently reduced by one.

Daedalus wrote:In Quest 14, Return to Barak Tor, the Witch Lord merely needs to be defeated to stop his army from marching on the Emperor's forces. When defeated, he vanishes in a puff of foul smoke. However, in A Message from Mentor preceding the Return of the Witch Lord Quests, it is up to the Heroes "...to destroy the Witch Lord once and for all." In Quest 10, The Court of the Witch Lord, the Witch Lord must be killed before reading the conclusion of the Quest Booklet. Finally, in the opening text of AtOH, Morcar ponders the slaying of the Witch Lord.

I had figured that meant no more returns for the Witch Lord, but you have an interesting angle. Seems to me your reanimation scenario for the Witch Lord works fine, as "once and for all" could apply to just the time of the Heroes. I could definitely see the powerful magic or spirit of the Witch Lord ultimately overcoming death once again.

I may have read too far into it, but I assumed that the Witch Lourde, who was around during the time of Rogar, would have been fought and 'destroyed' in much the same way as the Heroes of the current time fought him, which would render him dead, but not irreparably so. Then again, if you take his inexplicable weakness to Fire magic and to Magical Throwing Daggers in RotWL at face value, it is also possible that being attacked with the Spirit Blade so often has a detrimental effect on the Witch Lourde's continuing ability to reanimate himself.

Absent convincing evidence to the contrary, I will probably continue believing my own theory about the many deaths of ol' Witchy. Of course, now I have to decide whether or not to have him make an appearance in AlterQuest at some point... (probably not since the actual Spirit Blade does not feature and the imitation Spirit Blade "Eidolon Sword" can be permanently missed)


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Re: [Quest Pack] [12 Quests] - Heralds of Chaos

Postby The Admiral » July 28th, 2015, 11:54 am

Count Mohawk wrote:The center room is the Unholy Altar tile by Ken O'Brien, found hidden deep in the bowels of the original Agin's Inn.

I have also added a link to a ZIP folder containing a copy of all the tiles used in Heralds of Chaos to the first post. Probably should have done that some time ago, but here we are.


Thanks for that. I've printed it off.


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Re: [Quest Pack] [12 Quests] - Heralds of Chaos

Postby cynthialee » July 28th, 2015, 12:03 pm

Wow that trident is powerful! And I thought my self made artifacts were OP!
:)

My only issue is the admonition of no shields. Ever seen pictures of Roman Gladiators? The trident and shield was not uncommon.
But so are shield and spear....
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


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Postby The Admiral » August 4th, 2015, 1:29 pm

Just a quick question.

Is Farod immune to the possible mind points loss from the use of Baal'roth's Flamberge?


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Re: Baal'roth's Flamberge

Postby Count Mohawk » August 4th, 2015, 2:45 pm

The Admiral wrote:Just a quick question.

Is Farod immune to the possible mind points loss from the use of Baal'roth's Flamberge?

I'm going to go with "yes" on this one. The Heroes fight for Law and the Empire, whereas Farod is already aligned with Chaos (remember the statue in the previous quest?). Plus, it's easier not to have to track his MP, barring spell use of course.


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Re: [Quest Pack] [12 Quests] - Heralds of Chaos

Postby The Admiral » August 4th, 2015, 4:50 pm

Thanks, that would have been my thoughts on it.


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Re: [Quest Pack] [12 Quests] - Heralds of Chaos

Postby The Admiral » December 20th, 2015, 2:54 pm

In the final quest, would the use of Holy Water on Bane stun him for one or two turns?


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Re: [Quest Pack] [12 Quests] - Heralds of Chaos

Postby Count Mohawk » December 20th, 2015, 7:40 pm

The Admiral wrote:In the final quest, would the use of Holy Water on Bane stun him for one or two turns?

The drawback of Bane's lich powers causes him to be stunned for one turn if injured, no matter how many Body Points of damage he takes. The only way Bane can be stunned for more than one turn at a time is if he suffers damage from the Spirit Blade, in which case he will be stunned for two turns instead. So Holy Water only works for one turn.


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Re: [Quest Pack] [12 Quests] - Heralds of Chaos

Postby The Admiral » December 21st, 2015, 6:45 am

Thanks again.

Should there be anything in the chest in room F of Quest 5?


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