Legacy of Sorasil quest pack?

[Kurgan]

If we're mixing things around here I always felt like the Mythic tier (Remake) heroes had some correspondence.

"Bard" = Cleric (a magical character who focuses on supporting others with healing and buffing bonuses)
"Warlock" = Ranger (a fighter who is swift/stealthy and relies on ranged attacks)

The remake Guardian Knight has little in common with the Paladin other than being a strong guy who is good with armor.

If you're trying to convert the video game to Classic Hero Quest that's another thing though, than trying to come up with some new game that incorporates many different aspects into it.

I came up with my own interpretations of the four new Sorasil heroes but I realize they differ from those in the game and others may not agree with my particular choices (my Ranger is very weak and my Cleric and Paladin are very similar to each other) and they're meant to be used with my upgrade system, which again differs from what the game offers and what others may choose.

Not having played the game, but having read over the manual some time ago, I got the impression that magic in Sorasil was more a case of being choosable by most characters to differing degrees of effectiveness, rather than the way the Remake does things which is (apart from the inherited system of giving the Elf one set of three of one element and the Wizard getting the rest) give three unique spells to each new character type (the Knight simply having his spells renamed to "skills"). But LOS is a video game released in 1994, so therein lies the challenge of adaptation. Very cool to see people working on it again and I wish you all the luck in the world!

[RealCato]

Hi Kurgan, nice to see you in this thread! You have experience playing with the 4 new characters as you designed them, so I'm hoping you are willing to help review some of the choices to be made.

Magic indeed works differently in the videogame than the boardgame. I don't think we want to adopt how the videogame does it in any way, but here's how it works:
- Any players can cast magic spells, they just need to find or buy the appropriate 'Scroll' (a scroll in the videogame doesn't crumble, you click it to cast the corresponding spell), however:
- Every spell cast consumes Mind Points and "Turn Actions", and they can Fail (There's a secret roll behind the scenes on the spellcaster side - this replaces monsters defending against spells).
- A higher Mind Point statistic means 1) More spells to cast in a quest 2) More Spells per turn, and 3) Less chance of failure
- Mystic and Wizard each start with a higher MP statistic and with a spell already in their inventory.
Simple as that.

[Kurgan]

Sorry I didn't see your post until now... yes, very interesting info! Thanks by the way, and I am up for advice (even play-testing) even though a project of this magnitude is beyond the scope of my interest at the moment. I agree, some things will have to be "board game-ized" to make it playable and desirable for HQ players... otherwise just play the video game straight, right?

I tried to boil down the concepts I heard about for the new characters into something I thought felt like it could be in the game. I suppose I could have made the Ranger have 5 BP and that's probably what I should have done, so they're all generic. Maybe give him a "rogue" type ability so he can re-roll his dagger once per quest (and he'd have two cards instead of just one then... and playing the card after attacking doesn't count as a second action).

So essentially everyone becomes a magician (I kind of thought I had read that back in the day in the manual) just the classic magic characters are better able to use it. Getting to throw more magic around seems somewhat OP but losing MP could be disastrous... what happens to a hero who goes to 0 MP in this game? Because in the core game you either die, go unconscious (your fellows better win the quest!) or in shock (BQP/EQP... it doesn't say you can be restored, but most of us presume anything that restores mind points could bring you out of "shock" state rather than having to wait until the next quest to be "normal" again).

If you have to find/buy scrolls to even use magic, that might explain the poor player who had a cleric that had "no spells."

Do you start with anything by default? Because without it, that would make the Wizard pretty weak at the start (even if you're never supposed to be playing a quest solo anyway, so he can still hide behind the stronger characters). And your party is still four...

[RealCato]

Sorry I didn't see your post until now...

No worries!

So essentially everyone becomes a magician (I kind of thought I had read that back in the day in the manual) just the classic magic characters are better able to use it. Getting to throw more magic around seems somewhat OP but losing MP could be disastrous... what happens to a hero who goes to 0 MP in this game? Because in the core game you either die, go unconscious (your fellows better win the quest!) or in shock (BQP/EQP... it doesn't say you can be restored, but most of us presume anything that restores mind points could bring you out of "shock" state rather than having to wait until the next quest to be "normal" again).

The videogame cut some corners: I think the MP bar is just a mana bar. Reaching 0MP does not seem to have any adverse effect other than not being able to cast spells.

Magic is not OP in the videogame, au contraire. you need a high MP to pull off some good damage, but it is not sustainability due to MP depletion. So basically most of the map you play with your melee characters and then the spellcasters help out as a backup. But since the spellcasters have to give up a lot of HP and combat effectiveness for MP they are actually weaker than melee fighters. And with low MP, like the melee fighters have, you will have only 2-3 spells per map (remember these maps have 50+ Monsters in them) and most of the time these spells fail anyway.

If you have to find/buy scrolls to even use magic, that might explain the poor player who had a cleric that had "no spells."

Do you start with anything by default? Because without it, that would make the Wizard pretty weak at the start (even if you're never supposed to be playing a quest solo anyway, so he can still hide behind the stronger characters). And your party is still four...

Yes the wizard and mystic start with a ball of flame and lightning bolt spell in inventory, in addition to staff or dagger, from the top of my head. Just the cleric doesnt start with a spell i believe. However the first map has 2 spells to find (sleep and lightning bolt i think). And after the first map you can buy more spells from the shop; if you’ve been so smart to search for gold with your spellcaster that is, since gold and items cannot be transfered.

[lestodante]

I remember I downloaded two instruction books for the videogame and both of them were mentioning only one or two Earth Spells.
Was that an incomplete list for the Earth Spells? Maybe both of the booklet I downloaded were from the same person and missing some pages? Or did you add more spells to complete the set?

[HispaZargon]

I remember I downloaded two instruction books for the videogame and both of them were mentioning only one or two Earth Spells.
Was that an incomplete list for the Earth Spells? Maybe both of the booklet I downloaded were from the same person and missing some pages? Or did you add more spells to complete the set?

Hi, you have a correct one. As far as I know, there are only two Earth Spells in the videogame, as listed in the manual.

[Kurgan]

Looking Here it seems there's only one with Rock Skin both protecting and healing you. Guess the CD32 version is in error, as it otherwise reads just like the Amiga (computer) version which has 2. Interesting.

No pass through rock this time...

[RealCato]

Looking Here it seems there's only one with Rock Skin both protecting and healing you. Guess the CD32 version is in error, as it otherwise reads just like the Amiga (computer) version which has 2. Interesting.

No pass through rock this time...

They implemented 2 Earth spells: Rock skin and Heal Body. Heal Body can be purchased in the first shop for 150G

[Kurgan]

It takes some getting used to, but the idea of buying magic is like putting gold prices on Artifacts... which there was a famous thread on here not too long ago discussing that very subject. The idea that high mind points are still needed to get the magic consistently well I guess still makes the spell castor types special and also severely weakens the utility of the Spells (in the board game, Spell Scrolls are equally powerful no matter who uses them, their only weakness being they don't recharge from quest to quest).

The problem for me in the HeroQuest (the first one) pc game was that if the hero who searched and found the Artifact was not the one you wanted to have it, you were stuck, because he couldn't give it to anyone else (you'd have to repeat the quest to get it again). But they made up for it by making it so anyone (even the Wizard) could use any Artifact (but let's say the Barbarian or Dwarf found the Wand of Recall, oops, it's useless to them). But you'd have to know ahead of time before you searched, which hero needed to do it to get it. Now in HeroQuest II if you can just buy the special power/object you want, that makes it a little easier (though why not allow heroes to trade gear freely?).

I take it once you buy a spell in LOS, it becomes a permanent ability, rather than is treated as an object you'd have to buy again and again (but could theoretically be traded as Artifacts can, in a board game version of it)?

[RealCato]

It takes some getting used to, but the idea of buying magic is like putting gold prices on Artifacts... which there was a famous thread on here not too long ago discussing that very subject. The idea that high mind points are still needed to get the magic consistently well I guess still makes the spell castor types special and also severely weakens the utility of the Spells (in the board game, Spell Scrolls are equally powerful no matter who uses them, their only weakness being they don't recharge from quest to quest).

The problem for me in the HeroQuest (the first one) pc game was that if the hero who searched and found the Artifact was not the one you wanted to have it, you were stuck, because he couldn't give it to anyone else (you'd have to repeat the quest to get it again). But they made up for it by making it so anyone (even the Wizard) could use any Artifact (but let's say the Barbarian or Dwarf found the Wand of Recall, oops, it's useless to them). But you'd have to know ahead of time before you searched, which hero needed to do it to get it. Now in HeroQuest II if you can just buy the special power/object you want, that makes it a little easier (though why not allow heroes to trade gear freely?).

I take it once you buy a spell in LOS, it becomes a permanent ability, rather than is treated as an object you'd have to buy again and again (but could theoretically be traded as Artifacts can, in a board game version of it)?

I really think most of these decisions in the videogame were made to reduce development time. They cherrypicked from the boardgame what they could easily convert, adapted what could make a feature passable, and ignored the rest.

Trading between characters would need more engineering than testing, and the feature is not really needed as long as you have the abundant drops, the shops for critical missing items, and the game is not too hard. Having said that: the maps really helped me to gear up my heroes with the gear i wanted for them.

The spells are indeed permanent objects in your inventory. You can sell them to get rid of them, but thats about it.

Let’s regard the videogame for what it aspires to be: an entertaining way to spend about 10 hours. Even for me, 30 years later, it was okay to play, there were some fun moments and nice fights and abilities.