• Advertisement

Make a small donation to Ye Olde Inn!

Donate via Paypal

Every cent received goes toward Ye Olde Inn's maintenance and allows us to continue providing the best resources for HeroQuest and Fantasy Gaming fans.

Legacy of Sorasil quest pack?

Discuss Quest creation and share Quests/Quest Packs you've created.

Re: Legacy of Sorasil quest pack?

Postby RealCato » Monday January 3rd, 2022 8:07am

First count of the items in the videogame:

9 Quest Items (3 Sorasil pieces, Bone Key, Ring of Elements, Oracle Stone, Staff of Teleportation, Thorastin Swamp Map, and Old Parchment with a tip for the players)
21 unique Artifacts (Cloaks of Warding counted as 4 items)
7 Artifacts which appear more than once (Boots of Speed, Helm of Defence, Ring of Courage, Ring of Detection, Ring of Rockskin, Ring of Sure Sight, Ring of Swift Wind)
11 types of Equipment, 2 of which are not in Base Game (Greatsword and Pole Arm)

(here it gets a bit muddy)
Since the videogame uses Spell Scrolls to teach you Spells, it uses Crystals (but also Potions) to fulfill the function of Spell Scrolls.

So you have:
The 17 Spells, depicted by Spell Scrolls

2 Crystals (Spell Scroll with multiple uses)
- Crystal of Water Wall
- Crystal of Swift Wind

11 types of Potions:
* 3 of which also appear in base game (Potion of Healing, Potion of Strength, Heroic Brew - only 1 copy in the game found)
* 4 have an effect similar to existing Potions but are named different (Potion of Ogre Strength (Potion of Icy Strength - BQP), Potion of Perception (Potion of Vision - EQP), Potion of Swift Wind (Potion of Speed - UK exclusive), Elixir of Life (US only)
* 3 exist but only as Spell Scrolls (Potion of Ball of Flame, Potion of Courage, Potion of Rockskin)
* 1 new one with an unknown effect (Potion of Mind Control).

Actually, Potion of Ogre Strength appears only once, but is in inventory mapped to a regular Potion of Strength.
RealCato

Skeleton
Skeleton
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sunday November 28th, 2021 6:05am
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar

Advertisement

Make a small donation to Ye Olde Inn!

Donate via Paypal

Every cent received goes toward Ye Olde Inn's maintenance and allows us to continue providing the best resources for HeroQuest and Fantasy Gaming fans.

Re: Legacy of Sorasil quest pack?

Postby HispaZargon » Tuesday January 4th, 2022 6:20am

RealCato wrote:First count of the items in the videogame:

9 Quest Items (3 Sorasil pieces, Bone Key, Ring of Elements, Oracle Stone, Staff of Teleportation, Thorastin Swamp Map, and Old Parchment with a tip for the players)
21 unique Artifacts (Cloaks of Warding counted as 4 items)
7 Artifacts which appear more than once (Boots of Speed, Helm of Defence, Ring of Courage, Ring of Detection, Ring of Rockskin, Ring of Sure Sight, Ring of Swift Wind)
11 types of Equipment, 2 of which are not in Base Game (Greatsword and Pole Arm)

I think Amulet of Tambor-Rin has not been counted as Quest item...


Rewards:
Wizard of Zargon Group Member
User avatar
Librarian-Analyst
HispaZargon
Inn's Guardian

Wizard
Wizard
 
Posts: 1382
Images: 40
Joined: Friday October 12th, 2018 2:18pm
Location: Madrid, Spain
Forum Language: Español
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group MemberScribes Group MemberAdventurers' Guild Group MemberArtists Group MemberChampion Group Member

Re: Legacy of Sorasil quest pack?

Postby Pancho » Tuesday January 4th, 2022 10:26am

RealCato wrote:
Pancho wrote:RealCato,
The Earth spell that is missing from this game is Pass through Rock. Most certainly the only reason they left it out is the limitations of video games back then, trying to move through walls on the map would have led to so many errors it just wasn’t feasible to include it.
But our board game version absolutely should have Pass through added to the Earth Spell deck. So that gives us 5 spells for each elemental deck.

What are #4 and #5 then?

Bear with me I think we can nail the spell situation.

Going by the notes provided by Nephew of Mentor/Travis on the Facebook thread, we have 16 spells in Legacy of Sorasil. However, they aren't split evenly between the four elements. This may have worked in the video game, but it really won't do in our remake.
There are 5 of the classic element spells dropped in the video game (not just Pass through Rock but also Heal Body, Fire of Wrath, Genie & Veil of Mist). Again, this won't do at all. We can't ask people to take out classic spells for our boardgame version, its time-consuming, impractical and a bit silly (considering that the Elf and the Wizard already know these spells and are unlikely to have forgotten them from a previous expansion!). Anyhow, I believe that Pass through Rock, Fire of Wrath and Veil of Mist were only dropped because of the limitations of computer games back then).

So that leaves 21 spells altogether (16 in video game plus 5 added back in from classic).
I propose we drop one of the spells from the video game, then split the remaining 20 equally between the four elements. So 5 spells for each elemental deck, as follows.

Fire
Fire of Wrath
Ball of Flame
Courage
Wall of Fire
Fear or Flame of Healing . I suggest we drop Flame of Healing.

[b]Air

Tempest
Swift Wind
Genie
Healing Wind
Lightning Bolt

Water
Sleep
Water of Healing
Veil of Mist
Wall of Water
Rust (this should really be a water spell because water causes rust).

Earth
Rock Skin
Heal Body
Pass through Rock
Demoralise
Detect Traps (this works well as an earth spell in my mind).

I suggest we drop Flame of Healing. They added this to the video game so that all decks had one healing spell, but in the boardgame fire spells are aggressive but are weak in defence/healing. I think the list above retains the traditional nature of the four decks; Fire, followed by Air, are the most aggressive, Water and Earth are the most defensive.

Let me know what you guys think.


Rewards:
Participated in three (3) Miniature Exchanges.
User avatar
Pancho
Rock Skin Achieved

Halberdier
Halberdier
 
Posts: 1275
Joined: Wednesday April 12th, 2017 10:43am
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Usergroups:
Champion Group Member

Re: Legacy of Sorasil quest pack?

Postby HispaZargon » Tuesday January 4th, 2022 11:28am

Thanks Pancho.

I have also been thinking on the spells topic, moreover also about the four new heroes too. In my opinion, following what you said above, everything related with the classic elemental spells would be aligned with what will be decided for WQP and DQP so probably the spell lists you mention will be so covered by the spell cards fron the 'new' expansions. Moreover, in order to be practical, I would directly apply the same spell lists from WQP and DQP in an exact way for this LoS questpack, which means 4 elemental decks with a total of 8 different spells each. This ensures full compatibility between all the expansions, even with the 8 Elf spells from EQP, and avoids doing more work which will be already done for WQP and DQP.

About how to introduce the Cleric and Mystic new heroes in such magic system, I think would be so interesting to create a new exclusive Mystic spells deck inside this Legacy of Sorasil questpack, to be exclusively used by both Cleric and Mystic but following the same official rules concept as for the Elf and the Wizard, not allowing have more than 3 spells from the same deck. In order to be consecuent with the rest of NA questpacks, this new deck would consist also of 8 spells. The idea of adding a new deck with invented spells I know goes out the LoS material but I think the creation of those two new heroes justifies it, since I always think the new heroes from LoS must be also compatible to be used in other questpacks and at the same time they should have their own personality.

I understand the Mystic slightly weaker than the Wizard in strength terms but I see her very similar to the Wizard in terms of magic knowledge, even little bit stronger, so I would give her also 9 spells from 3 diferent decks, like the Wizard, but one of them must be the new LoS Mystic spells deck and the other two would be classic elemental decks (of course covering the WQP & DQP ones) or even one of those two could be also from the Elf spells deck from EQP in order to represent her higher magic knowledge.

In case of the Cleric I see her as an average hero between the Elf and the Wizard so I would give her 6 spells from 2 different decks, one must be the new Mystic deck and the other deck one of the classic elemental decks. Doing like this the Cleric would be quite powerful so I think a good idea to also forbid her to use metallic armour (maybe we could also allow her the use of a shield but none body armours nor helmets for example). This will make a different character than the Elf and also a different character than the Wizard since she can cast less spells but can use regular weapons and shield.

In case of Paladin, for compatiblity reasons, I would definively design it taking as basis the Commander of the Guardian Knights from the remake... if we would want the Paladin hero different from them, the best way I think is just changing the Knight Skill cards by 3 new Paladin Skill cards following a similar concept, maybe one of them related with some Templar background or something similar, but I would not add too much more for the Paladin in order to try not shadowing the Barbarian by him.

In case of Ranger, I would treat him again with a similar design concept as the new heroes introduced in the remake, by means of 3 new Ranger Skill cards. I would include for example one of them which improve the use of two hand weapons (2 attacks) for a period of time, other card would improve an accurate shot once per quest when using a crossbow or throwing a weapon like daggers (by means of allowing re-rolls of failed dice) and the last one would be similar to the Claryvoiance spell from WoM to be used once per quest to represent his high Perception and spy abilities in the board. We could also give him a tools kit from the beginning but he would not have the dwarf's ability for traps in order to avoid shadowing the dwarf... those are the ideas I have in mind.

According to all herein above and different checks I have done with my custom difficulty HZ-model v.1.0.0, the most balanced (and different) stats I have though for all of those new heroes are:

- Paladin: 2MD, 2AD, 3DD, 7BP, 2MP, 3 paladin skill cards, Short sword + Shield. (Same stats and equipment as Commander of Guardian Knights, except the skills that would be different)

- Ranger: 2MD, 1AD, 2DD, 6BP, 3MP, 3 ranger skill cards, 2 Daggers + Tool kit. (Maybe 2 short swords instead of 2 daggers?)

- Cleric: 2MD, 2AD, 2DD, 5BP, 5MP, 3 mystic spells + 3 elemental spells, Short sword. Metal armours not allowed except shield.

- Mystic: 2MD, 1AD, 2DD, 3BP, 7MP, 3 mystic spells + 6 elemental spells from 2 different decks, Dagger. Same weapons and armour limitations as Wizard (Would be better a staff instead of dagger?)

Those were the starting stats which I think are fully compatible to be used with any other released questpack which is the right idea I think. About overpowering them for the LoS questpack I have also thought the following:

Mentor sends the heroes to the far land of Rhia to help his old friend Alamon. Once the heroes arrive Rhia, Alamon will give them 1000 gold coins each to buy equipment and be prepared for battle. This quantity I have calculated is quite enought to equip them quite well (at least with the equipment the heroes seem to start in the videogame's heroes pictures) but at the same time it is not a huge and absurd amount of gold that will allow them to buy everything from the shop, remember potions are expensive... additionally, I have thought about the knight/wizard hybrid background that seems to have Alamon character so, he could also gave the heroes some kind of a knight loyalty favour or mystical pray, like Bretonnian knights pray to their Lady of the Lake gaining better stats in battle, which could gave the heroes for example 2 extra BP and 2 extra MP to be added to their basic stats but only during their Rhia campaign. This could overpower them for just this questpack in (I think) a credible way and at the same time those heroes could be also used after this questpack in other questpacks without being too overpowered because the knight favour effect would have ended once Rhia is free of darkness... Well, that's only an idea but similar things already exist in Warhammer lore so I think could fit well. Additionally I would include the Wizard's Cloak and Wizard's Staff classic artifacts in the first quests as posible treasures to allow the Wizard or Mystic to be equiped with them but only if they dont have them at the beginning of the questpack. About the gold, it would be also given by Mentor instead of Alamon, minor context detail but maybe could fit better, and after that Alamon would give them the loyalty pray effects... many posible background options to justify empower the heroes before starting the adventure but always trying to limit their artificial empowerment for only this questpack. This vould be also be performed by means of artifacts but they are objects so players would want to own them once the questpack finishes which would unbalance other questpacks if they carry them. Similar issue as with Sorasil artifacts... but due to storyline they must be returned anyway... those are the reasons I think something like an intangible special Sorasil's Knights pray done in heroes honour as mystical favour for them may fit better.

About the list of spells you mention Pancho, I would include the spells from LoS videogame that were not finally included in the WQP or DQP in the new Mystic spells deck (the ones you suggest to 'drop' if posible). Of course many other new would be defined to complete the full deck of 8 spells. Maybe we could try to allow the posibility of some of those spells to recall them by means of throwing a die, for example in order to balance a little bit the weakness in BP of the Mystic.


Rewards:
Wizard of Zargon Group Member
User avatar
Librarian-Analyst
HispaZargon
Inn's Guardian

Wizard
Wizard
 
Posts: 1382
Images: 40
Joined: Friday October 12th, 2018 2:18pm
Location: Madrid, Spain
Forum Language: Español
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group MemberScribes Group MemberAdventurers' Guild Group MemberArtists Group MemberChampion Group Member

Re: Legacy of Sorasil quest pack?

Postby RealCato » Wednesday January 5th, 2022 7:09am

HispaZargon wrote:
RealCato wrote:First count of the items in the videogame:

9 Quest Items (3 Sorasil pieces, Bone Key, Ring of Elements, Oracle Stone, Staff of Teleportation, Thorastin Swamp Map, and Old Parchment with a tip for the players)
21 unique Artifacts (Cloaks of Warding counted as 4 items)
7 Artifacts which appear more than once (Boots of Speed, Helm of Defence, Ring of Courage, Ring of Detection, Ring of Rockskin, Ring of Sure Sight, Ring of Swift Wind)
11 types of Equipment, 2 of which are not in Base Game (Greatsword and Pole Arm)

I think Amulet of Tambor-Rin has not been counted as Quest item...

Yes, very sharp. I had counted it as an Artifact by mistake. So 10 Quest Items and 20 unique artifacts.
RealCato

Skeleton
Skeleton
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sunday November 28th, 2021 6:05am
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar

Re: Legacy of Sorasil quest pack?

Postby RealCato » Wednesday January 5th, 2022 7:21am

Pancho wrote:Let me know what you guys think.

Yeah ok, so in summary you are suggesting to balance out the Spell schools by dropping “Flame of Healing” and moving “Fear” and “Detect Traps” to Earth, thereby creating a #4 and #5 spell for Earth.

I am inclined to agree with HispaZargon though that we dont want to mess too much with existing spell schools given also that we have WQP and DQP incoming. We know Sorasil was limited in spell design and therefore made inferior choices. Actually I find myself only using the direct damage spells in practice, because it feels a waste to use your precious Mana Points on disabling an enemy, creating a wall the enemies won’t walk through, or healing an ally while they’re stacked with Potions of Healing. In fact, Tempest and Detect Traps dont even seem to exist in the videogame at all, despite them being in the Game Manual. And Rockskin, Courage and Swift Wind dont exist as Spells either; they are used only in Rings, Potions and Crystals.

But I also agree that LoS gives us the opportunity to add 4 new heroes, and it would be nice to make them Unique and balanced out. I am not opposed to creating new spells for these classes if that would enhance the LoS experience and give experienced Players the possibility to play it with a new and fresh character. But this will be the difficult part. I think we need to draw inspiration from HQ2021, and go from there.

P.S. It also just doesn't sit right with me to grant Fear and Detect Traps in the classic Elemental School. While WoM was not released in US, I think it did implicitly claim these spells (Spells of Darkness and Spells of Detection respectively).
Last edited by RealCato on Wednesday January 5th, 2022 8:05am, edited 1 time in total.
RealCato

Skeleton
Skeleton
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sunday November 28th, 2021 6:05am
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar

Re: Legacy of Sorasil quest pack?

Postby RealCato » Wednesday January 5th, 2022 8:02am

HispaZargon wrote:The idea of adding a new deck with invented spells I know goes out the LoS material but I think the creation of those two new heroes justifies it, since I always think the new heroes from LoS must be also compatible to be used in other questpacks and at the same time they should have their own personality.

I agree, but opinions will vary on this so if we do this, it needs to be very solid.

HispaZargon wrote:I understand the Mystic slightly weaker than the Wizard in strength terms but I see her very similar to the Wizard in terms of magic knowledge, even little bit stronger, so I would give her also 9 spells from 3 diferent decks, like the Wizard, but one of them must be the new LoS Mystic spells deck and the other two would be classic elemental decks (of course covering the WQP & DQP ones) or even one of those two could be also from the Elf spells deck from EQP in order to represent her higher magic knowledge.

Where did you get the understanding the Mystic is weaker than the Wizard? The way I read it they developers just wanted to have an additional Female character, and they made it look very much like a Wizard.

From the Manual:
Celeste is a captivating beauty, Mistress of the Elements and an accomplished enchantress. Little is known about this mysterious elementalist, but she can prove a match for even the most formidable opponents using her phenomenal powers.
Despite her magical prowess, she is prone to physical attacks, having limited combat skills.

So, basically a female Wizard. But we will already have that in WQP.
The only unique word that I can find here is 'enchantress'. Also we know that Alamon is a Mystic. But this is not much to go on.


HispaZargon wrote:In case of the Cleric I see her as an average hero between the Elf and the Wizard so I would give her 6 spells from 2 different decks, one must be the new Mystic deck and the other deck one of the classic elemental decks. Doing like this the Cleric would be quite powerful so I think a good idea to also forbid her to use metallic armour (maybe we could also allow her the use of a shield but none body armours nor helmets for example). This will make a different character than the Elf and also a different character than the Wizard since she can cast less spells but can use regular weapons and shield.

I think the defining feature of the Cleric is her Faith, which gives her Magic powers, but doesn't allow her to shed blood.

From the game manual:
Calorflame is a Priestess who can prove both a powerful ally and a dangerous enemy. The education and training of clerics involves rigorous religious and military aspects - after all, spreading the Word of God is never going to be easy in such a lawless world. Thus Clerics are a combination of both soldier and sorcerer: formidable combatants with life-saving spells. Because of her religious convictions, Calorflame is forbidden to shed blood and, as a consequence, unable to use edged weapons.

So, she can club an enemy to death, just not stab them. :-)
But basically this means she can use only the Staff weapon (similar to Wizard), but wear armour (I agree to limit this to a Shield and maybe a Chain Mail).
In terms of Magic we could create a unique spell deck, or reuse existing spells, focused around Healing and Buffing Heroes, rather than damaging enemies.
Offensive spells are usually the most powerful ones, so limiting her to spells like this would balance the fact she can wear armour.
A simple solution would be to let the Cleric choose spells first, from all Spell schools, but with the limitations given, and then let the Wizard choose afterwards. With each spell school having 8 spells, there should be more than enough left for the Wizard to choose from. A slight variation on this would be to print second copies of the spells the Cleric can use, put them in a new spell school with 8 spells, and then she can take all 8 for instance.

HispaZargon wrote:
In case of Paladin, for compatibility reasons, I would definitely design it taking as basis the Commander of the Guardian Knights from the remake... if we would want the Paladin hero different from them, the best way I think is just changing the Knight Skill cards by 3 new Paladin Skill cards following a similar concept, maybe one of them related with some Templar background or something similar, but I would not add too much more for the Paladin in order to try not shadowing the Barbarian by him.

Yeah, I am really on the fence here.

From the Game manual:
The Order of the Knights Paladin are brave and noble crusaders: Guardians of justice and honour, whose high ideals must be maintained at all times through a Spartan existence. Haxar is a pious knight, steadfast, loyal and dependable. Pure in mind and deed, he is a noble companion to any on the side of goodness and law.


"Order of the Knights" and "Guardians" suggests we just use the Guardian Knight class. But:
1. I was hoping to give the Paladin some limited self- healing/protection powers, much like World of Warcraft's interpretation of a Paladin, but I don't think we can justify this at this point with HQ2021 around.
2. I don't like introducing new classes from Sorasil, but then leaving Paladin out
3. Not many people have access to the Guardian Knights expansion, and may not ever will (I also missed it)

HispaZargon wrote:
In case of Ranger, I would treat him again with a similar design concept as the new heroes introduced in the remake, by means of 3 new Ranger Skill cards. I would include for example one of them which improve the use of two hand weapons (2 attacks) for a period of time, other card would improve an accurate shot once per quest when using a crossbow or throwing a weapon like daggers (by means of allowing re-rolls of failed dice) and the last one would be similar to the Claryvoiance spell from WoM to be used once per quest to represent his high Perception and spy abilities in the board. We could also give him a tools kit from the beginning but he would not have the dwarf's ability for traps in order to avoid shadowing the dwarf... those are the ideas I have in mind.

Yeah need to design this one.

From the game Manual:
The Forests have traditionally provided Rangers with both their homes and way of life. Experts in woodcraft and forest lore, Rangers live on their wits, aided by the eagle-like perception which they have developed through a lifetime in the wilds. Oakheart is at home in the wilderness; tracking and woodland magic are second nature to him. His sword provides another way out of danger if his foresting skills fail him.

Not many hints in here. Would like to see him use bow and arrow. in the videogame he is depicted with an offhand dagger.

HispaZargon wrote:
Mentor sends the heroes to the far land of Rhia to help his old friend Alamon. Once the heroes arrive Rhia, Alamon will give them 1000 gold coins each to buy equipment and be prepared for battle.
Don't like this. We have more than enough Gold in Sorasil, let them find it in the quests.

HispaZargon wrote: Alamon character so, he could also gave the heroes some kind of a knight loyalty favour or mystical pray

Could be done as a balancing effort, but not sure this would work out well. Players may take already existing and powerful characters into this story alongside the new ones, so need some rules around that.

HispaZargon wrote:Additionally I would include the Wizard's Cloak and Wizard's Staff classic artifacts in the first quests as posible treasures to allow the Wizard or Mystic to be equiped with them but only if they dont have them at the beginning of the questpack.

There are already so many Artifacts in Sorasil I would just use those with powers suited to the Mystic and Cleric. Think of the Ring of Wonders and Helm of Casting from Quest 1. Later on you have amulets, rings, and Sorasil's Palaestra.
RealCato

Skeleton
Skeleton
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sunday November 28th, 2021 6:05am
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar

Re: Legacy of Sorasil quest pack?

Postby HispaZargon » Wednesday January 5th, 2022 5:07pm

RealCato wrote:
HispaZargon wrote:The idea of adding a new deck with invented spells I know goes out the LoS material but I think the creation of those two new heroes justifies it, since I always think the new heroes from LoS must be also compatible to be used in other questpacks and at the same time they should have their own personality.

I agree, but opinions will vary on this so if we do this, it needs to be very solid.

Of course!

RealCato wrote:
HispaZargon wrote:I understand the Mystic slightly weaker than the Wizard in strength terms but I see her very similar to the Wizard in terms of magic knowledge, even little bit stronger, so I would give her also 9 spells from 3 diferent decks, like the Wizard, but one of them must be the new LoS Mystic spells deck and the other two would be classic elemental decks (of course covering the WQP & DQP ones) or even one of those two could be also from the Elf spells deck from EQP in order to represent her higher magic knowledge.

Where did you get the understanding the Mystic is weaker than the Wizard? The way I read it they developers just wanted to have an additional Female character, and they made it look very much like a Wizard.

From the Manual:
Celeste is a captivating beauty, Mistress of the Elements and an accomplished enchantress. Little is known about this mysterious elementalist, but she can prove a match for even the most formidable opponents using her phenomenal powers.
Despite her magical prowess, she is prone to physical attacks, having limited combat skills.

So, basically a female Wizard. But we will already have that in WQP.
The only unique word that I can find here is 'enchantress'. Also we know that Alamon is a Mystic. But this is not much to go on.

HispaZargon wrote:In case of the Cleric I see her as an average hero between the Elf and the Wizard so I would give her 6 spells from 2 different decks, one must be the new Mystic deck and the other deck one of the classic elemental decks. Doing like this the Cleric would be quite powerful so I think a good idea to also forbid her to use metallic armour (maybe we could also allow her the use of a shield but none body armours nor helmets for example). This will make a different character than the Elf and also a different character than the Wizard since she can cast less spells but can use regular weapons and shield.

I think the defining feature of the Cleric is her Faith, which gives her Magic powers, but doesn't allow her to shed blood.

From the game manual:
Calorflame is a Priestess who can prove both a powerful ally and a dangerous enemy. The education and training of clerics involves rigorous religious and military aspects - after all, spreading the Word of God is never going to be easy in such a lawless world. Thus Clerics are a combination of both soldier and sorcerer: formidable combatants with life-saving spells. Because of her religious convictions, Calorflame is forbidden to shed blood and, as a consequence, unable to use edged weapons.

So, she can club an enemy to death, just not stab them. :-)
But basically this means she can use only the Staff weapon (similar to Wizard), but wear armour (I agree to limit this to a Shield and maybe a Chain Mail).
In terms of Magic we could create a unique spell deck, or reuse existing spells, focused around Healing and Buffing Heroes, rather than damaging enemies.
Offensive spells are usually the most powerful ones, so limiting her to spells like this would balance the fact she can wear armour.
A simple solution would be to let the Cleric choose spells first, from all Spell schools, but with the limitations given, and then let the Wizard choose afterwards. With each spell school having 8 spells, there should be more than enough left for the Wizard to choose from. A slight variation on this would be to print second copies of the spells the Cleric can use, put them in a new spell school with 8 spells, and then she can take all 8 for instance.


Ok, I have checked again the pictures and I thought the Cleric was the Mystic and the Mystic was the Cleric by mistake... well I think we have a new problem since the Mystic is using a sword, and the Wizards cannot use it in HeroQuest... About the weakness of the Mystic was just to make her different than the Wizard but I see her now with the sword so I have changed my opinion... and yes, of course the Cleric should not be allowed to use edge weapons, that matches with classic fantasy lore but I saw her with the sword and I thought they changed it for this game, but again I was mistaken since it was the Mystic... Ok, after this mess, how do you think we should define the Mystic and Cleric stats compared with the Wizard? Allowing the Mystic to wield swords I think may lead us to penalize her in other point in order to avoid creating a more powerful character than the Wizard... maybe we could limit her to cast 6 spells instead of 9 but allow her the use of any weapon but not the use of metal armour? Other option would be reduce her MP to 4 instead of 6 as the Wizard but let her cast 9 spells... And about the Cleric, ok, I think also allow him the use of chain mail is ok according to the classic fantasy lore. Then, how do you think should be their stats? Here is possible summary of them once modified, Mystic opton 3 is the weak one if prefered to provide some additional diversity:

- Cleric: 2MD, 2AD, 2DD, 5BP, 5MP, 3 mystic spells + 3 elemental spells, Staff. Metal armours not allowed except shield and chain mail.
- Mystic (option 1): 2MD, 2AD, 2DD, 4BP, 4MP, 3 mystic spells + 6 elemental spells from 2 different decks, Short sword. Metal armours not allowed.
- Mystic (option 2): 2MD, 2AD, 2DD, 4BP, 6MP, 3 mystic spells + 3 elemental spells from same deck, Short sword. Metal armours not allowed.
- Mystic (option 3): 2MD, 2AD, 2DD, 3BP, 7MP, 3 mystic spells + 6 elemental spells from 2 different decks including elf spells, Short sword. Metal armours not allowed.


RealCato wrote:
HispaZargon wrote:
In case of Paladin, for compatibility reasons, I would definitely design it taking as basis the Commander of the Guardian Knights from the remake... if we would want the Paladin hero different from them, the best way I think is just changing the Knight Skill cards by 3 new Paladin Skill cards following a similar concept, maybe one of them related with some Templar background or something similar, but I would not add too much more for the Paladin in order to try not shadowing the Barbarian by him.

Yeah, I am really on the fence here.

From the Game manual:
The Order of the Knights Paladin are brave and noble crusaders: Guardians of justice and honour, whose high ideals must be maintained at all times through a Spartan existence. Haxar is a pious knight, steadfast, loyal and dependable. Pure in mind and deed, he is a noble companion to any on the side of goodness and law.


"Order of the Knights" and "Guardians" suggests we just use the Guardian Knight class. But:
1. I was hoping to give the Paladin some limited self- healing/protection powers, much like World of Warcraft's interpretation of a Paladin, but I don't think we can justify this at this point with HQ2021 around.
2. I don't like introducing new classes from Sorasil, but then leaving Paladin out
3. Not many people have access to the Guardian Knights expansion, and may not ever will (I also missed it)

So... do you think the Paladin should not be included? About point 1, well if the healing power is not too powerful it could be possible. About points 2 & 3, I think one of the most interesting things of LoS questpack would be to introduce the new heroes so no problem from my side to create a Paladin class even it is too similar to remake's knight one. If not it will result quite rare to see the other new heroes and this one not there.

RealCato wrote:
HispaZargon wrote:
In case of Ranger, I would treat him again with a similar design concept as the new heroes introduced in the remake, by means of 3 new Ranger Skill cards. I would include for example one of them which improve the use of two hand weapons (2 attacks) for a period of time, other card would improve an accurate shot once per quest when using a crossbow or throwing a weapon like daggers (by means of allowing re-rolls of failed dice) and the last one would be similar to the Claryvoiance spell from WoM to be used once per quest to represent his high Perception and spy abilities in the board. We could also give him a tools kit from the beginning but he would not have the dwarf's ability for traps in order to avoid shadowing the dwarf... those are the ideas I have in mind.

Yeah need to design this one.

From the game Manual:
The Forests have traditionally provided Rangers with both their homes and way of life. Experts in woodcraft and forest lore, Rangers live on their wits, aided by the eagle-like perception which they have developed through a lifetime in the wilds. Oakheart is at home in the wilderness; tracking and woodland magic are second nature to him. His sword provides another way out of danger if his foresting skills fail him.

Not many hints in here. Would like to see him use bow and arrow. in the videogame he is depicted with an offhand dagger.

The bow sounds interesting of course but there are no official rules for bows so I would left it in the hands of the homebrew rules each Evil Wizard has to avoid enter in conflict by creating new rules for bows here. For Ranger I would give him some ability which improve distance attacks in general, it would be also compatible which any homebrew rules or cards about bows or throwing weapons.

RealCato wrote:
HispaZargon wrote:
Mentor sends the heroes to the far land of Rhia to help his old friend Alamon. Once the heroes arrive Rhia, Alamon will give them 1000 gold coins each to buy equipment and be prepared for battle.
Don't like this. We have more than enough Gold in Sorasil, let them find it in the quests.

HispaZargon wrote: Alamon character so, he could also gave the heroes some kind of a knight loyalty favour or mystical pray

Could be done as a balancing effort, but not sure this would work out well. Players may take already existing and powerful characters into this story alongside the new ones, so need some rules around that.


Well, it depends on how difficult are the quests. I assume the quests will be so difficult since in the videogame they are, that's the reason I think the heroes should have extra help from the begining. Of course giving them gold is not the more elegant way but at the same time we cannot artificially overpower them in a way that it would affect so much in future questpacks, that's the design challenge and why I also thought for example in extra gold and the knights pray, but they were only first ideas.

In the other hand, if the final concept is creating easy quests like in the basic game or KK / ROTWL, I think it will not fit well with the story nor the videogame difficulty. The players are sent there to save an entire Empire (Rhia) from darkness since I guess Alamon has not enough power nor troops to do that by himself... I think such task would be so difficult and any extra help from Alamon to achieve that by the heroes would be enough justified... I see the general concept of this questpack cannot follow the same concept as other existing questpacks since most of their stories are less ambitious than LoS, its storyline and scope is so different than the rest. If we finally decide to make easier quests than the difficult feeling provided by the videogame, I think the story told in the videogame should be adapted accordingly for the questpack, by limiting the importance of the heroes mission in some way, or for example assume that Alamon has some kind of army and he is fighting somewhere at the same time the heroes are playing the quests. In such case I would understand a difficulty reduction but if we have not enough care, we would be changing in excess the original story. I hope I have explained well the idea.

RealCato wrote:
HispaZargon wrote:Additionally I would include the Wizard's Cloak and Wizard's Staff classic artifacts in the first quests as posible treasures to allow the Wizard or Mystic to be equiped with them but only if they dont have them at the beginning of the questpack.

There are already so many Artifacts in Sorasil I would just use those with powers suited to the Mystic and Cleric. Think of the Ring of Wonders and Helm of Casting from Quest 1. Later on you have amulets, rings, and Sorasil's Palaestra.

Of course the use of other artifacts could be also valid but in other official questpacks is common to see Wizard's Cloak and Wizard's Staff in the first quests for such purpose. Again, it depends on how difficult will be the quests which, as I mentioned before, I assumed they were going to be difficult, the main reason I focused on these artifacts as early rewards if the heroes playing were new creations.


Rewards:
Wizard of Zargon Group Member
User avatar
Librarian-Analyst
HispaZargon
Inn's Guardian

Wizard
Wizard
 
Posts: 1382
Images: 40
Joined: Friday October 12th, 2018 2:18pm
Location: Madrid, Spain
Forum Language: Español
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group MemberScribes Group MemberAdventurers' Guild Group MemberArtists Group MemberChampion Group Member

Re: Legacy of Sorasil quest pack?

Postby therealshrek » Wednesday January 5th, 2022 8:01pm

Just thoughts...
First: Technically they gave us Paladins with the new guardian pack.
The Order of the Knights Paladin are brave and noble crusaders: Guardians of justice and honour, whose high ideals must be maintained at all times through a Spartan existence. Haxar is a pious knight, steadfast, loyal and dependable. Pure in mind and deed, he is a noble companion to any on the side of goodness and law.


Second: Rangers. I am basing this on direct conversion from WFB, WQ, and Adv HQ.
The Ranger doesnt have Magic. He is one with the Wilderness, and a Master Archer. cannot wear Heavy Armor (Plate)
+1 attack Die with all Bows, and +1 Move Die when Outdoors. 6 Body, 4 Mind the same stats for Human or Elf,
if a Dwarven Ranger, still 6 Body, 4 Mind, +1 with Bows, but they keep their disarm ability, and do not receive the movement bonus.

Third: The Mystic / Enchantress wielding a sword. Again if you follow thru the games that HQ was originally a gateway for, and
has conversions. A Mystic can use a Relic Blade. A Magic Long Sword "Enchanted" specifically as a focus item for them. It replaces their staff or
wand. It would not be an artifact, it would be a new piece of Equipment usable only by a Mystic / Enchantress / Wizard. 3 Body, 7 Mind

Fourth: The Priest is a specialized caster like a Druid , Warlock, or Bard. It would have 2 kinds of Spells just like them.
With an Obvious one "Healing" That can be used over and over again, and most likely "Turn Undead" that works the same way.
As a Human, 5 Body , 5 Mind. Cant wear Metal Armor, Cant wield edged Weapons, Has 4 standard 1 use spells, plus the 2 reusable abilities.
User avatar
therealshrek

Mummy
Mummy
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Wednesday December 18th, 2013 8:05pm
Location: NW Ohio, near Perrysburg
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon

Re: Legacy of Sorasil quest pack?

Postby RealCato » Thursday January 6th, 2022 12:50pm

Hispa/Shrek, replying to both of you at once:

First comments;
- difficulty; If it's up to me then Sorasil is indeed an Epic Story with matching difficulty. There are so many artifacts in this expansion that it should be easy to outfit new players. Expansions normally don't have more than 5-6 new artifacts: this expansion has 20+ artifacts.
- wiz cloak and wiz staff: In Quest 1 there's the Helm of Casting, Ring of Elements, and Ring of Wonders that could provide a similar function. Then, later on we have the 3 staffs, cloaks of warding etc. that we want players to wear as well.

Paladin vs Guardian Knight
- Now that I've looked at the new cards in this expansion, I think the Paladin character can be justified. The guardian knight miniatures don't look like paladins to me, and their abilities are more related to playing a 'tank' role, than to heal and protect with powers given through his faith. I'm not sure how this would align with Warhammer lore etc, have to research, but I'm thinking Cleric and Paladin get similar powers or have a shared spell school they take their powers from - similar to the Elf - Wizard dynamic.
- Gauntlets of Virtue item drop could also fit the theme well for Paladins and Clerics.
- As for stats; 6 BP, 2-3 MP, can wear plate and use all weapons. Then could give him 3 single use Faith abilities per quest (holy water item, shield of protection on self, and holy flame spell?). Possible limitation: cannot wear items forged by Evil, or use Evil spells (also not from spell scroll).

Ranger
- I really like a lot of your ideas on this one therealshrek. just need to make sure that if the ranger gets outdoor abilities, we will have enough 'outdoors' in this quest pack to make a difference
- there are rules for bows and flying dagger, no? Don't see why that would confuse players. We may need to introduce a new equipment card 'Longbow' or something.
- I didn't think of a Dwarven Ranger yet... not sure we would want this. We don't have space in the miniatures section.
- As for stats; 5 BP, 4-5 MP, cannot use metal armour. And to compensate: 3 skills; is able to detect/disarm traps better, +1 outdoor move and either bow skill or use dagger offhand).


Mystic - sword vs. staff

- In the videogame the figure holds a sword, but if you open inventory it is a staff. Mistake by developers. Alamon the Mystic also carries a staff and not a sword.
- Videogame has 3 potential "Staff" artifacts; Staff of Doom, Staff of Teleportation, and Palaestra of Sorasil. If the party has no Wizard, I would want the Mystic be able to use it. So she may end up with a Staff anyway
- But I also like the Relic Blade idea.
- a sword could also be a dagger, which is what the Wizard can also use.
- As for stats; not sure on this one 3-4 BP, 6-7 MP, no armor and heavy weapons like wizard, but to compensate she needs strong elemental / enchantment magic. could be done like Warlock with a strong personal weapon and 1 repeatable ability with 2 normal spells from Sorasil, or more like a wizard with 8-9 single use spells.

Cleric;
- really like therealshrek's suggestions here.
- As for stats; 5 BP, 4-5 MP, sounds right. can wear chain mail, but not plate, or use sharp weapons. Bit similar to Bard with 1 repeatable/strong ally healing ability and 2 one-off spells (a positive enchantment that can last, and maybe turn undead)
Last edited by RealCato on Thursday January 6th, 2022 2:24pm, edited 5 times in total.
RealCato

Skeleton
Skeleton
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sunday November 28th, 2021 6:05am
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar

PreviousNext

Return to Quests and Quest Packs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 2 guests