mitchiemasha wrote:Jafazo wrote:mitchiemasha wrote:Dougy Destroyer wrote:If the hero had missed the throw he could of still just retrieved his weapon in the same manner as I previously stated.
Nope! because the monster is still stood on it.
A simple solution to this would be to allow the weapon to be picked up as long as you are standing either on the Square or in an adjacent Square. You just need to specify who can pick up the weapon whether it's the hero who threw it or any hero or even monsters. You also need some kind of tile or marker to represent the throne weapon on the board.
Personally I think being able to pick up the weapon instead of having to search as an action is a much simpler and more effective solution.
It's starting to get complicated with the adjacent squares "need to specify" etc. If you missed, who's to say it's even there, bounced off shield, monster dodged out the way, I'm not sure one could move a Fimir if it's stood on your AXE. Picking up something is already in the game, that's part of what the search mechanic actually is. I like the idea of a token, this could be placed in the room as a representation.
I did spend along time thinking about all the retrieving methods. The first version I used was to pick it up from the monsters square, until I realised the issues. The simple solution is...
"Lost weapons can be found if the area it was thrown in is searched"
No more complex wording of clarification... (edit: and monsters can't search, fixed, fixed, fixed)! With the added bonus of keeping them a 1 shot per bunch of monsters (thanks to searching mechanics). Preventing weapons intended to be used once being too powerful.
I feel like I'm disagreeing with everyone today, lol! but that's only because those are the ideas we tried first too!!!
I disagree with you on this. I don't feel that specifying the thrown object could be picked up from an adjacent square is 'more complicated' because the phrasing, adjacent squares, is explained and should be a familiar concept to HQ players. That whole 'search the square it landed on' is completely foreign and has the potential to be 'complicated' too (more complicated in my opinion). Such as how 'searching a square for a thrown weapon' works in conjunction with your other actions. Does it count as an action this turn? Is it some kind of free action? Can it be done while there's a monster in the room if all you're searching is a single square? What if more than one hero throws more than one weapon at a monster? Does a pile of thrown weapons build up in that square? If so, when we search to pick one up do we have to pick up from top to bottom of that stack or can we choose which thrown weapon to pick up? Is it possible to pick up more than one object from that square on a search? If numerous weapons were thrown throughout the room, is it possible to move onto a square, search it, pick up a thrown weapon, resume movement to another square, search it and pick up more weapons this way? "Hey guys, we can retrieve our magical throwing dagger!" If each hero has just one magical throwing dagger, your game is broken. Anything in any room had better have more than 4 body points in total if you want it to be a challenge, otherwise get ready for heroes to kick open a door and take turns throwing their magical throwing dagger at a monster to inflict 4 automatic points of damage., then retrieving their daggers. On each turn, all 4 heroes can now pump out at least 4 points of automatic damage this way so this is now the primary means of dealing with any enemy before even resorting to combat dice.
Any new system or idea we introduce is going to have to answer questions so using words like, 'what makes heroquest more or less heroquest' isn't a good foundation if you ask me. I've looked through lots of things posted throughout this forum & what I love are the many ways to go about and execute things for this game. I consider them all heroquest'ish variants. When it came out they basically gave us a simple game and that leaves room for countless methods of improvement or adjustment.
Let's be clear on this, I'm not a fan of retrieving thrown weapons, they were intended to be lost once thrown. When you let players retrieve them, you're changing the game drastically. I don't like the problems it introduces no matter which seemingly easy way anyone tries to incorporate it with. If you ARE going to allow heroes to pick up thrown weapons though I do feel that simplifying it as much as possible is vital. Between just letting a hero who threw it picking it up versus putting them through some additional 'search this spot' mechanic, I feel letting them pick it up automatically is much easier. The hero who threw it is the only one who can pick it up as long as he moves onto the square it's on, the end. Even allowing other heroes to pick it up leads to complication, like if a player prioritizes picking up thrown weapons to sell them back in town.
I say don't let thrown items be retrieved period, the end.
Unless you specify your version I'm going by the US rules.