Need some opinions...

[mitchiemasha]

Yeah that's what we do... go round in circles. Discuss all the variables and hopefully find the best solution.

So i'm going to add this to my armoury. I need a name... Supporting Dagger? It has no Attack value. Roll all in attack, Auto Wound.

[Jazzdrummer]

Yeah that's what we do... go round in circles. Discuss all the variables and hopefully find the best solution.

So i'm going to add this to my armoury. I need a name... Supporting Dagger? It has no Attack value. Roll all in attack, Auto Wound.

Back and forth. Back and forth.

Well the OH dagger gives you 1 defense die and allows for a lethal attack that can't be blocked simulating the assassin finding an opening to attack a vital area. I'll try both ideas. I really like the idea of using shields to represent a kind of parry and strike type of thing. I just don't like the low chance of it happening. But thematically it sings. Maybe allow 2 rolled to apply 2 auto wounds...lol. Not a bad idea if you ask me especially with only a 11% chance of it happening.

[mitchiemasha]

Rolling all shields, especially on 2Cd6 can happen quite often.

[Jazzdrummer]

***UPDATE*** All final heroes are listed here for convenience. Enjoy.

The ASSASSIN Ver.1

Body:
Mind:
Attack:
Defend:
Move:

Starting Weapon: Dagger
Starting Armor: None
Restrictions: Can only use daggers and short swords. Due to his sneaky nature he can only wear light armor.

***Abilities***
1. POISON - If you roll any during your attack roll the target receives one auto-wound. This is applied before any defense dice are rolled. (Undead are immune to this effect)
2. AGILITY - Can move-attack-move.

-Dagger will have a 17% chance of rolling a
-Short sword will have a 28% chance of rolling a
-Broad or Long sword will have a 35% of rolling a

NOTE: This version doesn't allow the use of a broad or long sword. Try it out but I think it may be too much.

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Also wanted to add Carl Forhan's Rogue from Vindicator Magazine back in the day

The ROGUE

Body
Mind
Attack
Defense
Move
Starting Weapon: Shortsword and a dagger (Can carry 4 daggers)
Starting Armor: None
Starting Items: Toolkit
Restrictions: Can only wear light armor and a helmet. Can not use two-handed weapons.

***Abilities***
1. Roll an extra 3 attack dice against monsters that have not acted yet.
2. May throw a dagger once per battle that automatically hits unless the target can roll a on 1 die regardless of how much defense it has. Dagger is lost after thrown.
3. With a toolkit you disarm traps on anything other than a .
4. Can spend an extra movement point to move through monsters.

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The ASSASSIN Ver.2 (Sotiris and Gold Bearer)

Body
Mind
Attack
Defense
Move (Can move/attack/move)
Starting Weapon: Dagger
Starting Armor: None
Restrictions: Can only use a dagger. Due to his sneaky nature he can only wear light armor.

***Abilities***
1. LETHALITY - If you roll a on your attack roll it counts as
2. ASSASSINATE - If you do any damage to a target it is automatically slain.


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The ROGUE (Francisthe3rd)

Body
Mind
Attack
Defense
Move
Starting weapon: Shortsword
Starting Armor: None
Restrictions: Can not wear heavy armor or use two-handed melee weapons.

***Abilities***
1. QUICK REFLEXES - You do not spring hidden traps or hazards unless a is rolled on one die.
2. OPPORTUNIST - When attacking a monster that is adjacent to another hero all rolled are counted as .

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The THIEF

Body
Mind
Attack
Defense
Move
Starting Weapon: Dagger
Starting Armor: None
Starting Items: Toolkit
Restrictions: Can only wear light armor but no helmet. Can only use weapons that roll a maximum of (Dagger, Shortsword, Sling, Short Bow, rapier)

***Abilities***
1. HIDE IN SHADOWS - If no monsters can see you at the start of your turn, you may spend an action to Hide in Shadows. While 'hidden' only free actions are allowed. If you decide to move then you must roll a dice at the end of your movement for each monster that can 'see' you at that point. If a is rolled (17%) you are discovered, otherwise you remain undetected. While 'hidden' you can also search for treasures. Roll the dice again for any monsters in view. As long as no are rolled then you are successful. If you attack an adjacent monster from the shadows, it rolls no defense. Afterwards, regardless of outcome, you are detected. If you want the chance of detection to be greater (33%) than allow the thief to be detected if he rolls a . Either way the more monsters there are in a room the higher the chance you will be detected since you have to roll for each monster.
2. FILCH - When drawing treasure cards you may draw 2 and discard one. You may do this in the presence of enemies if you are in stealth.

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The ASSASSIN Ver.3 (The most simple and straight forward)

Body
Mind
Attack
Defense
Move
Starting Weapon: Dagger
Starting Armor: None
Restrictions: Can only wear light armor and use one-handed weapons.

***Abilities***
1. CRITICAL STRIKE - If you roll all skulls the hits are doubled.

-Dagger will have a 50% of rolling a resulting in
-Short Sword will have a 25% chance of rolling resulting in
-Broad/Long Sword will have a 13% chance of rolling resulting in

2. SHADOW WALK - Can move through monsters but it costs an extra movement point.

[burglekutt]

Gonna post so I can come back to this thread latter. This is my favorite thread so far. Here's a Thief with a mixture of your ideas:

BP 6
MP 4
ATT 1x2 duel wield daggers in each hand that are separate attacks.
DEF 2 standard weapons & Armor restrictions.

SNEAKING:
As long as the thief has at least one movement left when he gets to a door, he may ask to SNEAK inside. He then rolls 1D6 for movement which determines how much he is able to SNEAK around inside. No matter what, he has now opened the door & is making noise.

The enemy with the highest Defence in the room rolls that amount of combat dice & trys to roll a single BShield to hear the thief. If the Thief is heard, his turn is over. If he is not heard, he may attempt a Backstab if he has the movement to reach the target, or he can do other actions such as Searching.

BACKSTAB:
No weapon greater than 2ATT is used (Short Sword\ Saber). This attack is indefensible. Play resumes as normal after this.

DUEL WIELD SWORDS:
At his strongest the Thief can attack with a Long Sword3ATT in his MH, & a Saber2ATT in his OH. These are separate attacks.

DUEL WIELD DAGGERS:
He may throw two daggers per turn that are separate attacks.

HIDDING:
If the Thief can get out of the LOS of a enemy that is chasing him, he is now hidden. The enemy rolls it's DEF & needs a BShield to discover the thief, at which point it can attack if successful. Yes this can be done in narrow hallways as the enemy runs past/through the Thiefs square.
The Thief should not be able to BackStab though no matter how many times he "Hides".

That's it for now.

The crapy thing about SNEAKING in to a room at all, is what good is it when you get to a door & only have one or two movement left as you open the door? You might not even be able to make it to an enemy to do a BackStab. And waiting till the start of your next turn to open a door wastes time & would give you to much SNEAKING TIME to conceivably pass the enemies & go from room to room like this. That is unacceptable I think.

There should be a rule that no matter what, the Thief should not be able to open two doors in the same room with SNEAK including the door he just came through. We don't want him exposing what's inside each room for the hero's to avoid conflict when they want.

Jazz or others, have you guys figured out a good way to handle the "movement" issue surrounding SNEAK when you open a door? I like Mitchs 1D6 rule. I haven't read the whole thread just yet.

[mitchiemasha]

The thing with "sneaking is" i presume one would be moving very slowly (Edit: or very slowly and a quick burst at a perfectly timed moment). It doesn't have to be thought of as actually hidden in darkness or what not, it could be considered other forms of distraction are used to confuse the monsters, however, we don't need to think about all that, it's simply happening regardless.

So I'm not going to like "As long as the thief has at least one movement left when he gets to a door, he may ask to SNEAK inside. He then rolls 1D6 for movement which determines how much he is able to SNEAK around inside" as this gives the character a much further movement arc, an extra dice roll. You could split the d6, 1 sneak range, 1 standard movement.

[Azure]

@JazzDrummer- You can check my new post for "Additional Heroes and Heroic Skills".

I just posted a Thief class that is super complete and that happily conveys some elements of an Assassin. I'll help you sift through it.

To create the Assassin, you could for example, remove Bow and Arrows from (my) Thief, remove the bonuses to Gold and Gems and Treasure search, and instead...give the Assassin the following "spells" Stealth + Surprise Attack + Smoke Grenade. Also maybe make it possible to buy some strangulation gas that deals 1 Direct Damage to all enemies in a room.

Stealth would have to be announced before performing it of course, movement would be reduced to only 6 points of movement while performing it. (Otherwise heavily restricted movement makes the skill totally useless). A nicely performed Stealth could enable you to move undetected from one corridor to another, so Zargon's minions would remain inactive. Enemies would not activate until you attack. Your best bet would be to enter a room after waiting near the door frame -- on your turn you would benefit from a surprise attack and you could slit the throat of an enemy.