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Reworked spell system making use of mind points.

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Reworked spell system making use of mind points.

Postby Tott » January 17th, 2014, 6:52 am

I've long had a problem with the spell system in HQ. spells aren't very good, there's not enough of them, they don't scale very well and while a barbarian will think nothing of swinging his sword every turn, a wizard or elf will think long and hard about casting any spell. a wizard will often end a quest with quite a few uncast spells in his hand. In the core game there are only 2 artefacts or items that aren't directly combat linked, the talisman or lore and the wand of recall. mind points are, to all intents and purposes largely unused (the occasional defence against a chaos spell or trap) and the wand of recall which lets a wizard or elf get through their meagre supply of spells even quicker, but again is largely unused in my experience.
I've been thinking about modifying the spell system to address that. in this system;
    the back of all spellcards are the same regardless of magic school,
    most spells have more than one copy.
    all of a players spells are held face down,
    at the start of the quest a player draws cards equal to his mind points to his hand,
    at the start of each turn a player draws cards so that his hand is equal to his current mind points, if needed.
    when a card is spent is it placed in a discard pile.
    when all cards are gone from the draw pile, the player shuffles the discard pile and starts again.
    a player may discard up to one card per turn without 'casting' it - this is not counted as his action this turn and may still cast a spell.

I've made three new spells for each of the four schools, I haven't had a chance to mock up any spell cards yet as id like some feedback first of all.
here they are:
Fire
Ball of Flame (x4)– This spell may be cast on any one monster, enveloping it in a ball of fire. It will inflict one body point of damage which the target may defend against normally. You may add one extra point of damage for every 4 Mind points the caster possesses.
Courage (x4) – This spell may be cast on any one player. The next time that hero attacks he may roll one extra combat dice. This spell is broken the moment the Hero can no longer ‘see’ a monster. The target may roll one extra combat die for each 4 mind points the caster possesses. Courage my only be active on one player at a time.
Fire of wrath (x4) – This spell must be cast on two or more monsters in the same room or corridor as the caster. The spell will attack with as many combat dice as the caster has mind points and these dice may be distributed amongst the monsters as the caster chooses. Each target may only be attacked once per Fire of Wrath.
Fire Lance (x3) – This spell may be cast in any straight or diagonal line. It will inflict 3 points of damage which the target may defend against normally. Fire Lance may effect up to two targets providing they are in the same line. The damage done and the number of targets affected is increased by one for every 5 mind points the caster possesses.
Lava Pool (x2) The caster may place a Lava pool anywhere within his line of sight. Any monster or player passing through that pool will suffer one body point of damage from which they may not defend. Only one lava pool may exist at any one time.
Phoenix Hatchling – (x1) This spell may be cast on any one monster or player anywhere on the board. The phoenix will seek out the target and attack OR restore a fallen ally to life and restore lost body points. When attacking, roll combat dice equal to the casters mind points. body points restored is equal to the casters total mind points. Targets may defend against the damage normally.


Water
Veil of Mist (x4) – This spell may be cast on any one player. On the Hero’s next turn he may move unseen through any spaces occupied by monsters.
Sleep (x4)– This spell puts any monster into a deep sleep so they may not move, attack or defend themselves. The spell can be broken at once or on any future turn by rolling one red die for each of its mind points. if a 6 is rolled the spell is broken. May not be cast on undead.
Water of Healing (x4) – this spell may be cast on any one player; Its magical power will restore lost Body points up to the casters total Mind Points.
Water of Life (x2) – this spell may be cast on any one player, the magic of this water can restore a fallen ally to life and restore up to one lost body and mind points. The body and mind points restored is increased by two for every 5 mind points the caster Possesses.
Vitality (x3) – This spell may be cast on any one player. The targets maximum and current body points is increased by 1. This spell is broken the moment the Hero can no longer ‘see’ a monster. The target gains one extra body point for each 4 mind points the caster possesses. Vitality my only be active on one player at a time.
Mermaids Path (x1) The caster may place a mermaid pool anywhere within his line of sight. On any following turn, he may place a second mermaid pool anywhere else within his line of sight. Players and monsters stepping into one pool will be instantly transported to the other pool. The may never be more than two mermaid pools at any one time.

Air
Tempest (x4)– This spell will create a small whirlwind that envelops one monster of your choice. That monster will then miss its next turn.
Swift Wind (x4)– This spell can be cast on one Hero of your choice, including yourself. That hero may then roll twice as many red dice as normal the next time he moves.
Enlightening Breeze (x4)– This spell may be cast on any one player. The targets maximum and current mind points are increased by 1. This spell is broken the moment the Hero can no longer ‘see’ a monster. The target gains one extra mind point for each 4 mind points the caster possesses. Enlightening Vapours my only be active on one player at a time.
Gale – (x3) The caster must cast this spell on one target who is in a straight line in front of him. That figure is then forced back in a straight line until he hits a wall, trap or another figure. Each figure affected suffers one point of damage. The damage done is increased by one for every 5 mind points the caster possesses.
Hurricane (x2) – This spell will create a small hurricane that affects all monsters in the same room or corridor as the caster. These monsters will lose 1 body point and they attack with one less combat dice (minimum of 1) next turn. They will also only be able to move only half their normal spaces until the casters next turn. The damage done is increased by one for every 5 mind points the caster possesses.
Genie – (x1) This spell conjures up a genie that will do one of the following: open any door on the board (revealing what lies beyond), OR it will attack any monster anywhere on the board. The genie attacks with as many combat dice as the casters total mind points.


Earth
Rock Skin (x4)– This spell may be cast on any one player. The next time that hero defends he may roll extra one combat dice. This spell is broken the moment the Hero can no longer ‘see’ a monster. The target may roll one extra combat die for each 4 mind points the caster possesses. Rock Skin may only be active on one player at a time.
Pass Through Rock (x4)– This spell may be cast on any one Player. That Hero may then move through walls on his next move. Caution! There are shaded areas on each Quest Map which indicate solid rock. If the Hero ends his move in one of these areas, he is trapped forever!
Heal Body (x4)– This spell may be cast on any one Player. Its magical power will restore lost Body points up to the casters total Mind Points.
Wall of Stone (x3) – you create a magical wall of stone that covers 2 squares. The wall defends with 2 combat dice and has as many body points as the casters total mind points. Only one Wall of Stone may be on the board at one time.
Earth Shield (x2) - This spell may be cast on any one player. They gain a magical shield with two body points which will take damage instead of them. The player cannot lose body points until the shields body points have been reduced to zero. The shields body points may not be healed in any way. The shield gains one extra body point for each 3 mind points the caster possesses. Earth Shield my only be active on one player at a time.
Golem – (1x) Creates an earth elemental to do its masters bidding. The Golem moves and fights as follows.
Attack = 1 dice Body = X
Defend = 3 dice Mind = 1
Move = 6 dice
Where X equals the casters total mind points.
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Re: Reworked spell system making use of mind points.

Postby Tott » January 17th, 2014, 7:00 am

as an example of how the spell system would work:
Ball of Flame (x4)– This spell may be cast on any one monster, enveloping it in a ball of fire. It will inflict one body point of damage which the target may defend against normally. You may add one extra point of damage for every 4 Mind points the caster possesses.
The elf has 4 mind points so the spell will attack with 2 points of damage. (the base one point, then one extra for his 4 mind points)
the wizard has 6 mind points so also attacks with 2 points of damage, however IF he got his mind points up to 8, by using talisman of lore and/or Enlightening breeze he would do three points of damage.

Fire Lance (x3) – This spell may be cast in any straight or diagonal line. It will inflict 3 points of damage which the target may defend against normally. Fire Lance may effect up to two targets providing they are in the same line. The damage done and the number of targets affected is increased by one for every 5 mind points the caster possesses.
the Elf can attack can attack 2 targets with 3 points of damage BUT the wizard can attack three targets with 4 points of damage.
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Re: Reworked spell system making use of mind points.

Postby JasonMCM » January 17th, 2014, 7:36 am

Very cool, but there currently are not very many ways to gain MP. (2 character specific artifacts from the EQP and BQP, Talisman of Lore, and one new spell from the system.) Do you have any ideas on how to change the MP of casters much?

I do like that if put into scrolls there will be greatly reduced effectiveness for the Barbarian and Dwarf using these spells.

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Re: Reworked spell system making use of mind points.

Postby Sjeng » January 17th, 2014, 7:57 am

Wouldn't this make the wizard way too powerfull? 4 heroes would slaughter anything they encounter before it has a chance to attack...
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Re: Reworked spell system making use of mind points.

Postby Tott » January 17th, 2014, 8:38 am

there would be some new items to support this, but the barbarian and the dwarf already have a lot of advancement via existing gear. i'll post up some examples of new artefacts and equipment that would support this. bear in mind I've deliberately made some of these spells to be stronger, but will appear in the deck only once, and as the deck is drawn randomly, might not even get drawn the entire quest or might not be in your hand when you want them.
a barbarian or a dwarf can guarantee that they will be able to roll 3 attack dice every single turn, a wizard or elf with these spells, probably will be able to, but cant guarantee it.
misread you post a little, spell scrolls are ok, but for me, they don't address the basic weaknesses of the magic system in HQ.
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Re: Reworked spell system making use of mind points.

Postby Tott » January 17th, 2014, 8:49 am

Sjeng wrote:Wouldn't this make the wizard way too powerfull? 4 heroes would slaughter anything they encounter before it has a chance to attack...


IF they had all of their most powerful spells in their hand. yeah it would.
that would be a very lucky hand to draw though.

as i said, a barbarian or a dwarf can roll 3 combat dice in attack every single turn,
a barbarian, dwarf or elf can easily upgrade their weapons and armour but spells stay the same
some of these spells do need the numbers tweaking but its more the concept of modifying the spells to scale as the caster progresses.
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Re: Reworked spell system making use of mind points.

Postby Tott » January 17th, 2014, 9:32 am

heres some artefacts a made while ago that would be usefull in this system.

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Re: Reworked spell system making use of mind points.

Postby torilen » January 17th, 2014, 11:33 am

I don't mean to be strictly critical...I usually try to put in a good thought, as well...but just from the
first impression, I personally would not use this. I, too, have thought of making a system where the
spells are drawn face down, and the wizard either uses what is in his hand or simply discards a spell
without using it.

I really do not like this idea, though, for one reason: It just doesn't make sense. Typically, a wizard-type
hero memorizes spells to use for an adventure/a quest, and can pull from all those memorized. If he is
getting them in an "in-order" fashion, it makes it appear as if some higher power is giving them to him.
That is fine, if that is how you want it to work, but then you have to work out what higher power is giving
them, and why they would be in a random order, instead of having some semblance of reason...giving them
to him as they are needed, etc.

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Re: Reworked spell system making use of mind points.

Postby Daedalus » January 20th, 2014, 11:48 pm

There's a lot of creative thought here. Expect more criticism when an idea deviates a greater degree from the original concept. Drawing spells is a novel idea--I hope it playtests well for you.

How do you plan to have the Elf work out? I assume it will be necessary to seperate the spell cards before each Quest for the purpose of choosing spell groups. You'll need identifying icons for each group to make this easier.

Warhammer Quest overpowered the Wizard with unlimited spells. My overall impression is virtually unlimited availability of spells will make the spellcasting Heroes too powerful, especially when the Wizard gets the Wand of Magic.

54 or 18 spell cards is a large draw deck for the Wizard and Elf. No need for shuffling and reusing the deck, in my opinion. I'd also suggest scaling the deck for progression balance. I'd pare the in-play, starting draw deck down to 1 each of the x4 spells. After every Quest, build the usable draw pile up by adding one of the spells from the stock deck (out of play), first drawing from those spells that have the greatest number of duplicate cards. (The number of completed Quests must be recorded.) Thus, the rarer (ideally most powerful) x1 spells won't become available until most of the other cards are first built into the deck.

I'm not sure it's a good idea to allow x4 uses of the healing spells. I'd also consider judging the attack spells by setting them against 3 Goblins and then 1 Chaos Warrior, then compare the result to the performance of a Hero with 3 Attack dice. If repeated uses of a spell guns down either enemy significantly faster, you can guage you are adding power to the spellcaster. If a spell caster has too many such spells, you can expect he will surpass a combat-oriented Hero. I'd make such spells only available for later Quests or reduce their effectiveness.
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