Artifact: Hell Dagger

[torilen]

Knightkrawler - I'm going to disagree with your point of view here.
I have always viewed it/played it as, if you use a weapon to attack with during a turn,
you are considered "using" that weapon until the start of your next turn.

Think about it - the shield says it is not usable with the battle axe. If we go with your
explanation, though, a hero "uses" the battle axe to attack with, but can use the shield
to defend with because he doesn't "use" the axe during his defense, right?

Another reason I see it this way - if you allow players to switch between weapons...I allow
this, but the rule is it takes one full turn to put a weapon away and pull another. So...hero
attack and defends on one turn...at the start of his next turn he can put away one weapon
and pull another (and probably roll 1 or 2 DD less for doing so)...at the start of his third turn
he can attack with the new weapon.

I think a better wording would be to write somehow that the dagger simply does not allow
any modifications, or that it ALWAYS attacks with 1 AD, no matter what potions or spells
are cast...something like that.

[knightkrawler]

Torilen, You're probably right (I'm too stressed out by work to think about it hard enough by myself), but my goal was merely to explain what Sotiris meant.
Probably I was trying too hard to convey my/his point, so I got it messed up, I'll give you that.
For those who like Sotiris' restriction, a rewording would be in order.
Something like "Your attack strength with this weapon must not be modified (or raised, to point at a variant) by any card's effect."
That should do it.

[Gold Bearer]

..Great weapon for the Wizard.

This weapon fits perfectly on a Thief classed hero, especially played by a gambler!

Yea true, but a thief would have more affective choices. This would be the Wizards best option.

Depends on which weapons you allow on a thief though.

I should have said a thief would probably have more affective choices. It would have to be a well abilitied (is that a word?) thief who couldn't use a one handed sword considering they're more than likely going to have armour restrictions as well.

So here are some numbers... (These are end results so the 1 skull result is achieved with a skull on the first die and then a shield on the second die.)
0 Skulls: 50%
1 Skull: 25%
2 Skulls: 12.5%
3 Skulls: 6.25%
4 Skulls: 3.125%
5 Skulls: 1.5625%
6 or more Skulls: 1.5625%

As you can see the chances for getting the high number of skulls are crazy low. I personally have never rolled anything higher than 3 skulls when playing around with this. I have a couple of friends who will probably get at least one 5+ hit per night though... Maybe this isn't such a good idea.

But you roll one die for skull, so doesn't that just mean that all the dice rolls are 50% chance to get a skull?

Yes, but it's a geometric progression. 50%, 50% of 50%, 50% of 50% of 50%, etc.

Doesn't it go more like this?

0 = 50%
1 = 50%
2 = 25%
3 = 12,50%
4 = 6,25%
5 = 3,13%
6 = 1,56%
7 = 0,78%

No. If there's a 50% of no skulls and a 50% of one skull then how can there be any chance of anything else?

0 Skulls: 50%
1 Skull: 25%
2 Skulls: 12.5%
3 Skulls: 6.25%
4 Skulls: 3.125%
5 Skulls: 1.5625%
6 or more Skulls: 0.78125%

0 = 50%
1 or more = 50%
2 or more= 25%
3 or more = 12,50%
4 or more = 6,25%
5 or more = 3,13%
6 or more = 1,56%
7 or more = 0,78%

i would change the wording to say that you may only reroll one skull, that way if you do have courage or heroic brew you can still only reroll one skull.
again its a fairly common concept, if you're lucky AND the enemy your facing is very tough it could feel like an incredibly over-powered weapon, but the maths used here is fundamentally wrong, e.g
against a goblin:
0 skulls = 50%
1 skull = 50%
2 skulls = 25%
3 skulls or more = "F@££$ng typical! it only ever works against bloody goblins! ARGH!

against a tougher enemy:
0 skulls = 80%
1 Skull = 20%
2 or more skulls = hah. yeah right.

maths; no-one ever takes into account murphys law.

I don't know why there's so many comments about it being overpowered, especially with the odds there for people to see. Maybe just because it has the potential to wipe out a boss with the first attack. How about this:

When using this small blade you roll one combat dice to attack. If you roll a skull you may roll an additional combat dice. Continue to do so until a shield is rolled. If you roll more than one attack dice on the initial roll because of a special affect then all dice on the initial roll must be skulls to continue rolling and from then on only one attack dice is rolled.

That way you could have variations of it (Hell Sword etc) with more attack dice without them being overpowered either.

This would make an awesome artefact for the 25th quest pack

As long as it doesn't replace the Storm Wand. I think two items per hero after seeing the Japanese artefacts (I can't believe they stole my Ancient Runesword). Mines better because there's isn't much better than the Battle Axe, it's like the Spirit Blade not being much better than a Broadsword and I think there should be higher powered items if the story's set further on.

Barbarian: Ancient Runesword, Revelation Shield (like Sotiris').
Dwarf: Dwarven Kings Armour, Flame Axe.
Elf: Frost Bow, Wand Of Memory (white shields instead of black).
Wizard: Storm Wand, Hell Dagger.

[Goblin-King]

0 = 50%
1 or more = 50%
2 or more= 25%
3 or more = 12,50%
4 or more = 6,25%
5 or more = 3,13%
6 or more = 1,56%
7 or more = 0,78%

Yeah okay... This is what I was actually subconsciously thinking
And the chances to keep rolling skulls are infinitely approaching 0. Math is fun

And I agree with torilen on the subject of "using this weapon". In the game context using = having equipped.

[TMU]

Math is fun

I hate it. Absolutely hate it!

[Goblin-King]

Math is fun

I hate it. Absolutely hate it!

[Sjeng]

Ah, the good old invasion of the body snatchers scene. The screaming and pointing. Gives me shivers just like math.

[Tott]

I don't know why there's so many comments about it being overpowered, especially with the odds there for people to see. Maybe just because it has the potential to wipe out a boss with the first attack.

oh don't get me wrong, I said it could feel overpowered IF you got lucky AND it was against a boss. but then again, that what a good artefact should do. If you're lucky

I don't think a single exploding dice is overpowered by any stretch of the imagination, but when discussing items or abilities like this, its a standard reaction from most humans to imagine the worst case scenario. it has the potential to do a lot of damage, to wipe out a boss in one turn. it has the potential to do that. but probably it wont. most humans truly believe that if something is a million to one chance, its bound to work 9 times out of 10.
that's what my sarcastic scenario was about, Murphy's law (or sods law for us Brits) says that you will only get a good string of skulls against a low level enemy such as a goblin, and never against a strong enemy such as a boss.
unless you're really, really lucky...

[Gold Bearer]

I don't know why there's so many comments about it being overpowered, especially with the odds there for people to see. Maybe just because it has the potential to wipe out a boss with the first attack.

oh don't get me wrong, I said it could feel overpowered IF you got lucky AND it was against a boss. but then again, that what a good artefact should do. If you're lucky

I don't think a single exploding dice is overpowered by any stretch of the imagination, but when discussing items or abilities like this, its a standard reaction from most humans to imagine the worst case scenario. it has the potential to do a lot of damage, to wipe out a boss in one turn. it has the potential to do that. but probably it wont. most humans truly believe that if something is a million to one chance, its bound to work 9 times out of 10.
that's what my sarcastic scenario was about, Murphy's law (or sods law for us Brits) says that you will only get a good string of skulls against a low level enemy such as a goblin, and never against a strong enemy such as a boss.
unless you're really, really lucky...

Oh sods law. I took your post a bit out of context. I thought Murphys law was a genuine mathematical law.

[JasonMCM]

I thought Murphys law was a genuine mathematical law.

Wait a second, Murphy's law isn't an actual mathematical law?!?

I have tried to reword the card in such a way that it alleviates some of the "what if I get a bunch of attack dice bonuses" worries.


I took some of the wording directly from the manual, but if there is a way to remove the 'defender defends' part I would love to hear it.