Chaos Gifts/Mutations/Etc

[StratosVX]

Here's the way I look at anything on this site as well: These are add-ons for everyone's personal preference for how to play. You can take it or leave it, you can even modify it to fit how you prefer to play. I see a lot of debates on the "right" way to play, and I've seen some people get really worked up because someone else isn't playing the game the "right" way (their way). You can change the rules on anything in the game to fit how you play with your group and nothing that someone has made for the game needs to be played exactly as the author intended it to be played. If you like the cards but don't like why they're warping the characters, change the reason and use the cards. Not everyone likes the same gaming experience and people's tastes change over time as well. When I played this as a kid with my dad, I wanted a game that I could win. I would have hated having something like these cards in the game. Now I prefer a challenge. If my dad and I were still playing, I'd be pretty open to having these added to it. Aside from which, this would make every play through a totally different experience, which would be in the realm of being chaotic.

[torilen]

First - I love the idea. I am surprised no one else has come up with this up until now - maybe they had and hadn't presented
it as well? I don't know. Great thinking, though. This could certainly be a great addition to some quest packs, if there is a
specific room or boss monster that just exudes Chaos.

Second - on the system design. Rolling every turn seems a bit much to me. A hero could end up with all kinds of crap going
on just in the first 10 turns of a quest. Not only is that a lot to remember, but that could greatly overpower a hero if you
keep the good things (without any negatives to go along with them) and if a player gets lucky and pulls a lot of positive
cards.

Third - Not only what I've said above - but it seems like chaos is affecting them very quickly. In keeping with that line
of thinking, any monster that would be under the effects of chaos would be either mangled beyond recognition in just
a few short weeks, or would be so powerful and mighty that not even the gods themselves could defeat them.

Fourth - I have to agree that some of the good things should have negatives to go along with them. For example, unless
the "growing a beak" or "growing thick iron-like skin" just happens all of a sudden and is as if the hero has had them all
his/her life...it's going to hurt and cause a lot of anguish and perhaps blood loss. Not sure what a negative could be, since
HQ rules are fairly simple and don't take into account things like Constitution and shock and such. Just throwing it out
there.

Fourth - Getting to the whole "chaos or not chaos" thing...
One or two others have brought this up before. I understand that in fiction/sci-fi/fantasy writing and gaming, there has to
be certain elements that must be there in order for things to be somewhat believable, so the readers/players will buy it
and continue with the story/game/etc.

That said, sometimes in fantasy and sci-fi, the reader/player just has to go along with. In that vein of thought...GET OVER IT
PEOPLE! Fantasy has, since the 1970's, used the terms Good and Evil and Law and Chaos. There are very well defined alignment
groups to go along with all the variations of alignments. Read them...remember them...use them. That's the way fantasy games
are...you're not going to change them, so stop trying. Seriously - we're talking about magic and dragons and undead...using Chaos
as an alignment really just isn't that big of a stretch.

http://easydamus.com/alignment.html

For example - a shirt slogan that I have seen several times recently (or something similar to it, anyhow) - Chaotic Good...I plan
to get the Bad Guy, no matter who gets killed in the process. You can find similar slogans for all the different alignments all
over the internet.

[clmckay]

Hi,

I did some dice rolling on this. I am going to keep the rule to have a "gift" inflicted on a 6. (Perhaps a second, later quest will have another visit with this mechanic on a 5/6 roll). The way I have it setup, these will only be applicable in one room, with one baddie (boss) present. In just throwing some dice against the current monster design, it took 5ish (4.5, 4.75, 4.5, 5, 4.25) rounds for simulated heroes to clear the room. In general, not every hero gained a gift, indeed in one go only one hero even got 1. On the whole though 2 or 3 got gifts and on only one run did a hero get a second. Having other Monsters in the room with a random starting gift seems like it'll be a pretty neat effect. Rolling 1 red die didn't at the start of a Heros turn didn't appear to be out of line, especially since it only needed to be done in the one room.

I think that this will be worth a shot in a real game. Also, on page 2 are the updated cards, they do have a benefit and bad effect for almost every card.

[torilen]

I'll check out the revised cards - I hadn't downloaded those yet. And hey...anything is worth at least
one game session to try out. Believe me, I've come up with my own share of poor ideas. If this one
turns out not to work out, tweak it and keep trying. That's what game design is all about. I hope it
does work for you on the first try...those ideas are always the best.

As I said, I do quite like the idea, anyhow. I may "steal" it for my own games - should I ever find a
group with which to play.

[Daedalus]

Updated material. I've mixed the effects of Chaos Gifts in with a second mechanic I've been working on. I think this feels more satisfying in many ways.

Chaos Gifts
When in the presence of a source of great Chaos the Heroes run the risk of suffering mutations and corruption. When a Hero enters a room with a source of Chaos, Zargon will randomly select 1 Chaos Gift card for each monster in the same room as the source. At the start of each Hero's turn, that figures controller rolls 1 Red Die. On a 6 that Hero suffers a mutation due to the effects of the nearby source of Chaos. That Hero's controller draws 1 Chaos Gift Card. That Hero gains the attribute listed on the card. Also, the Hero loses 1 Mind Point due to corruption. A Hero may accumulate more than 1 Chaos Gift. The effects of Chaos Gifts do not end with the quest, but are persistent until removed. At the end of every Quest/Encounter an afflicted Hero may roll 1 Red Die. If a 5 or 6 is rolled, that Hero may choose 1 Chaos Gift to remove. Any Hero afflicted by a Chaos Gift may not enter towns or shops, buy weapons or potions (though he may give money to other Heroes to purchase on his behalf), hire or retain mercenaries, or participate in any encounter that takes place in a town or establishment inside a town. That player may control a generic mercenary or Hero for such Quests or Encounters.

Corrupted by Chaos
If a Hero loses his last Mind Point to a Chaos source, he is considered corrupted by Chaos. A corrupted Hero immediately comes under Zargon's control. If he is later reduced to 0 Body Points by the remaining Heroes, he may be carried back to the entrance of the quest by a Hero and resume play the next quest. If not, then Zargon should play this Hero as a recurring "villain" in each subsequent quest, until the Heroes are able to successfully recover him. The spell scroll "Cure Chaos", if successfully cast, will restore a corrupted Hero to "normal" with full Mind Points restored (and any "gifts" removed). If a Hero is corrupted for more than 1 Quest, the player may control a generic Mercenary on future quests until his Hero is recovered. A corrupted Hero will lose all gold (but not artifacts or equipment) if not recovered in the quest that he became corrupted (He probably gave all that gold to the furtherance of Chaos!)

ChaosGifts-Revised.zip

These are very nice ideas. If you're interested, here are some clarification and simplification points:

Chaos Gifts
When is a card returned to the deck? It appears a chaos gift must be removed before this happens.

I think the Cure Chaos Scroll spell is the better way to remove such a pernicious effect. That would make such a Quest treasure appropriately valuable, perhaps found as a side Quest goal. Otherwise, I'd simply have any gifts removed after a Quest automatically.

The only prohibition that makes boardgame sense to me is the prohibition against Mercenaries, as it works as a long-time penalty. The others are interesting to be sure, but by allowing trading and favors between Heroes they have no real in-game effect. The afflicted Hero may still purchase any equipment through other Heroes or transfer treasures from a stand-in Hero. I think prohibiting a gifted Hero from sharing with other Heroes would work even better as a stronger penalty.

Corrupted by Chaos
It may just be me, but allowing a Chaos Hero to be recovered after being reduced to 0 Body Points doesn't sit well with the rules. Is this a general house rule available to all Heroes in your game? If so, then okay. I'd just have the player start a new Hero, which should be more fun than a temporary Mercenary. Artifacts and equipment can be replaced, after all. This should have a positive effect on a game's longevity where equipment power creep is a problem.

Another way to go at this is to treat a Chaos Gift like a being a Werewolf from the EQP. Regardless of Mind Points (or not), every turn a the Hero player must roll a die/dice to check if he is controlled by Morcar/Zargon until the Chaos Gift is removed. I'd only want a Hero like this around for one Quest, then drop the gift. If you wanted to keep a gift between Quests, I'd probably keep the control trigger at 0 Mind Points.

Torilin's comment on p.3 about Hero Quest lacking a means to apply a negative to a Chaos gift using Constitution or shock brings up another alternative when a Hero is reduced to 0 Mind Points. The Elf Quest Pack provides a shock rule for this situation. Like a spell or scroll, the Chaos Gift effects can be applied on top of the 1 AD, 2 DD, and 1 move die of the shock effect.

Of course, items and 'gifts' conveying the chaos moniker best would be those that give you both advantages and disadvantages, somewhere along the lines of plate armor.
Has anybody thought of something that lets you 'buy' two one-time attack dice in exchange for a mind point or something like that?

I had worked up some Chaos Dwarf stuff that can be used by Heroes in the HQ25 - Artifacts thread that cost Mind Points.