• Advertisement

Make a small donation to Ye Olde Inn!

Donate via Paypal

Every cent received goes toward Ye Olde Inn's maintenance and allows us to continue providing the best resources for HeroQuest and Fantasy Gaming fans.

Hasbro

Guests may gather here for General Discussions about almost any Topic. NO BRAWLING!
Forum rules
Certain topics have become known to cause friction among passionate members. We kindly ask that topics relating to these subjects be taken outside the Inn to Websites that specialise in those subjects.

Thus far, these topics are: Recreational Drugs, Religion and Science.

Re: Hasbro

Postby whitebeard » July 26th, 2021, 9:04 pm

StratosVX wrote:Unfortunately, I saw Shadzar's reactions coming, which is why I made the posts about being civil (I believe whitebeard did as well, which is what prompted his posts). Shadzar's comments were far too similar to those of past Inn members. These are the same Inn members that resulted in the "Forum rules" banner that is at the top of these pages, which was also the reason I wanted to address FainFlynn's post asking which rules whitebeard believed were violated.


I read the banner of "religion and science" as "politics"... Once you say what someone else believes is bad, we start on this road. We can all agree on HQ, and Shadazar would still be a happy Inn member if they had stayed on topic. Left or right, I really don't care. Let's play HQ! There was nothing positive in the comments which were posted leading up to this event. It was following a familiar playbook pushing towards that line. I only asked that it stop.

This thread would have blown up eventually. Better sooner than later.
Has resigned from the forum and would delete his account if he could.


Rewards:
Grin's Stone Map Participated in four (4) Miniature Exchanges. Zealot Miniatures: Twisting Catacombs Kickstarter Backer Destroyed a Zombie! Smashed a massive Gargoyle!
whitebeard

Archmage
Archmage
 
Posts: 988
Images: 0
Joined: September 12th, 2014, 7:15 pm
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Advertisement

Make a small donation to Ye Olde Inn!

Donate via Paypal

Every cent received goes toward Ye Olde Inn's maintenance and allows us to continue providing the best resources for HeroQuest and Fantasy Gaming fans.

Re: Hasbro

Postby Davane » July 26th, 2021, 10:32 pm

cynthialee wrote:
Davane wrote:
cynthialee wrote:I am sorry for my part in this mess. I knew I was poking the bear with a stick and I did it anyways. I was getting heated and it brought out the worst in me.

But I thought it would be the welcoming the orc bard and damn with cannon remark that did it though....


Actually, it was probably the part where you called him racist...

I never spoke anyone's name. But if the shoe fits.


No, but you DID quote reply to Shadzar and use the pronoun "you" in the same paragraph as you called him racist, so shoe fitting or not, not using a name is largely irrelevant.

I mean, you called him racist, but it's okay, because I didn't use your name either...
"The HeroQuest World is loosely based on the Warhammer World which is the copyright of Games Workshop and is used by their permission."

HeroQuest Combined English Edition Rule Book (HQ CERB)
User avatar
Davane

Orc Shaman
Orc Shaman
 
Posts: 395
Joined: January 8th, 2020, 8:05 am
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar

Re: Hasbro

Postby Davane » July 26th, 2021, 11:07 pm

Pancho wrote:Davane, I’m totally not buying your rather strange idea that left wing regimes can’t be authoritarian. Are you seriously suggesting that they all become right wing as soon as they turn nasty? :shock:
All I see from leftists is the idea that government can solve everything (right wingers or conservatives believe the market can solve everything), but that often translates into Statism, or worship of the State, and big government always turns on it’s subjects eventually. We could just as easily say that ALL authoritarian regimes are left wing. I’m not saying that by the way, but it’s just as viable as what I think you are saying. I certainly think that there is something “encoded” into left wing thought that creates totalitarianism more readily than right wing thinking.

How the hell we ended up talking about this on a thread entitled “Hasbro” I don’t know. I’m out.


There seems to be this strange desire to assert that left-wing ideologies can be authoritarian, in order to preserve this ideal that people are centrist, rather than left-wing. It genuinely feels like a relic of thought left over from the Cold War.

The thing is that whilst "leftists" often cite ideals of big government solving everything, they never actually talk about HOW big government can solve everything, and how they end up with the power to solve everything, and this is the fundamental flaw with regimes like Communism. For all the good they can do, it is ultimately undermined by the fact that they have to oppress their populace to do it, just like the fascist right. In fact, there's so little difference in implementation and ideology between Communism and Fascism, it makes little sense to seperate them other than out of the peculiar desire find some reason to attack left-wing ideals.

The problem with most "leftists" is that they are too busy trying to enforce their own thinking on to the rest of the populace, failing to understand that most of the wisest leftists got their way their through choice, understanding, reasoning, and empathy. You can't just tell someone to do something, because many will ask why. But if you can explain why, then people are more likely to come to their own conclusions.

It's strange, because we are here, at Ye Olde Inn discussing what is essentially a cooperative board game. Cooperation is a left-wing ideal. In the UK version, the cooperation wasn't enforced - most players eventually come to learn that if they aren't working together, then the game is that much harder, because the dungeons can be much more dangerous if the party are already fighting amongst themselves, so they eventually choose to cooperate. It's not that UK HQ is inherently left-wing, just that is the essence of cooperation, and practical altruism. The US version took out the competitive elements, so there's no choice, and as such most players don't even realise that what they are doing is essentially cooperation, a left-wing survival strategy, often adopted in the case of threat of a greater challenge.

The idea that left-wing regimes can't be authoritarianism seems rather strange, because it flies in the face of what we have been told over the past 100 years. But think about it - who's been telling us this for all this time? The people with power, who would do anything to preserve that power. They are going to tell you that the basis of their power is right, that anything that challenges their power is wrong, and try and convince you using any means necessary why they should keep their power, and why others should protect their power. It's not all that strange when you get to what these regimes have in common - a lack of individual agency, that most basic of freedoms.
"The HeroQuest World is loosely based on the Warhammer World which is the copyright of Games Workshop and is used by their permission."

HeroQuest Combined English Edition Rule Book (HQ CERB)
User avatar
Davane

Orc Shaman
Orc Shaman
 
Posts: 395
Joined: January 8th, 2020, 8:05 am
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar

Re: Hasbro

Postby Davane » July 26th, 2021, 11:39 pm

StratosVX wrote:Here's the way I read the following just so people are aware why I didn't see anything wrong with cynthialee's post (and maybe I read this wrong):
cynthialee wrote:The Right Wing does not own society. The right wing does not speak for HeroQuest fans. The right wing is doing everything it can to protect the racist systems.

General statement about how cynthialee views the right wing. Not directed at anybody here

cynthialee wrote:You guys crying you see 'woke' in every corner are the ones ruining HeroQuest....Not those of us who see society must change and racism is evil.

Not everybody is a racist therefore not everybody needs to change. And racism is evil.
cynthialee wrote:We fought a civil war over this and the racists lost.

Accusing the 1860's South of being racist.

cynthialee wrote:You don't get a redo, society will change and your grandchildren will be civil people who disdain racists.

"You" being a general you, not a specific "Shadzar" you as the the rest of this section doesn't single out any one person. Also, grandchildren will hate racists.

This is the specific post Shadzar pointed out (even though my comments were about Torilen not calling him/her a racist). The way I read it, I don't see anywhere in here where Shadzar was called a racist. I honestly don't even see where it was insinuated that Shadzar was a racist. What I do read in here is a general disdain for the term racist being thrown at everybody. Why am I bringing this up? Because I believe moderators are fallible. If I am wrong, I have no problems with people being able to say so (although I would appreciate it if it was done so cordially).

Unfortunately, I saw Shadzar's reactions coming, which is why I made the posts about being civil (I believe whitebeard did as well, which is what prompted his posts). Shadzar's comments were far too similar to those of past Inn members. These are the same Inn members that resulted in the "Forum rules" banner that is at the top of these pages, which was also the reason I wanted to address FainFlynn's post asking which rules whitebeard believed were violated.


I would almost certainly say that you read that wrong, StratosVX. The point being, the terms "we" and "you" created an us vs. them dynamic, in which she firmly places herself as "us" and Shadzar as "them," whilst asserting that "them" are racist.

Following your logic, StratosVX, Cynthialee accuses 1860's south as being racist, and then accuses Shadzar, through the words "you" and "your" as being from the 1860's south, and thus being racist. There's direct inference in the logic, but because Shadzar isn't specifically named, there's the get-out of "I didn't call Shadzar racist," to which the answer will always be, "No, you just strongly inferred it."

Sure Shadzar was always likely going to blow up, but that doesn't make him wrong. If anything, all this has really done is reinforce WHY he is right, because from his perspective, it IS okay for someone like Cynthialee to accuse Shadzar of being racist, but NOT okay for someone like Shadzar to call Cynthialee racist, which is the very basis of his own argument. All Shadzar is seeing is a one-sided "zero-tolerance" policy that appears to be victimising him.

It's even more crass that Cynthialee then apologises for "poking the bear," even though she understood the likely consequences, but it's the bear that gets shot. That's a blatant admittance of trolling that deserves some form of acknowledgement, framed as if getting an apology in early somehow makes things better, NOW that Shadzar has left the thread, and probably the board. The term for Cynthialee's behaviour here is provocation - she literally provoked Shadzar's reaction.

All this has done here has demonstrated the perception of bias on your part, StratosVX. I am not saying whether such bias is conscious or otherwise, and it may be too late to fix what's already happened, but I had to speak out - regardless of how strange my notions may seem at times - simply because this IS the root cause of most of the reasons for these discussions and malcontent these days.

Shadzar just didn't want HQ to be changed from what he thought it was, and was made to feel like a racist because of it. Like I said previously, any critical theory on race would, in the current climate, appear to be pro-White, as society turns to a more pro-BAME structure that seems designed to rectify a past that most of us had no say in, and weren't even born for, and would most likely disagree with today...
"The HeroQuest World is loosely based on the Warhammer World which is the copyright of Games Workshop and is used by their permission."

HeroQuest Combined English Edition Rule Book (HQ CERB)
User avatar
Davane

Orc Shaman
Orc Shaman
 
Posts: 395
Joined: January 8th, 2020, 8:05 am
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar

Re: Hasbro

Postby StratosVX » July 27th, 2021, 6:38 am

Davane wrote:
StratosVX wrote:Here's the way I read the following just so people are aware why I didn't see anything wrong with cynthialee's post (and maybe I read this wrong):
cynthialee wrote:The Right Wing does not own society. The right wing does not speak for HeroQuest fans. The right wing is doing everything it can to protect the racist systems.

General statement about how cynthialee views the right wing. Not directed at anybody here

cynthialee wrote:You guys crying you see 'woke' in every corner are the ones ruining HeroQuest....Not those of us who see society must change and racism is evil.

Not everybody is a racist therefore not everybody needs to change. And racism is evil.
cynthialee wrote:We fought a civil war over this and the racists lost.

Accusing the 1860's South of being racist.

cynthialee wrote:You don't get a redo, society will change and your grandchildren will be civil people who disdain racists.

"You" being a general you, not a specific "Shadzar" you as the the rest of this section doesn't single out any one person. Also, grandchildren will hate racists.

This is the specific post Shadzar pointed out (even though my comments were about Torilen not calling him/her a racist). The way I read it, I don't see anywhere in here where Shadzar was called a racist. I honestly don't even see where it was insinuated that Shadzar was a racist. What I do read in here is a general disdain for the term racist being thrown at everybody. Why am I bringing this up? Because I believe moderators are fallible. If I am wrong, I have no problems with people being able to say so (although I would appreciate it if it was done so cordially).

Unfortunately, I saw Shadzar's reactions coming, which is why I made the posts about being civil (I believe whitebeard did as well, which is what prompted his posts). Shadzar's comments were far too similar to those of past Inn members. These are the same Inn members that resulted in the "Forum rules" banner that is at the top of these pages, which was also the reason I wanted to address FainFlynn's post asking which rules whitebeard believed were violated.


I would almost certainly say that you read that wrong, StratosVX. The point being, the terms "we" and "you" created an us vs. them dynamic, in which she firmly places herself as "us" and Shadzar as "them," whilst asserting that "them" are racist.

Following your logic, StratosVX, Cynthialee accuses 1860's south as being racist, and then accuses Shadzar, through the words "you" and "your" as being from the 1860's south, and thus being racist. There's direct inference in the logic, but because Shadzar isn't specifically named, there's the get-out of "I didn't call Shadzar racist," to which the answer will always be, "No, you just strongly inferred it."

Sure Shadzar was always likely going to blow up, but that doesn't make him wrong. If anything, all this has really done is reinforce WHY he is right, because from his perspective, it IS okay for someone like Cynthialee to accuse Shadzar of being racist, but NOT okay for someone like Shadzar to call Cynthialee racist, which is the very basis of his own argument. All Shadzar is seeing is a one-sided "zero-tolerance" policy that appears to be victimising him.

It's even more crass that Cynthialee then apologises for "poking the bear," even though she understood the likely consequences, but it's the bear that gets shot. That's a blatant admittance of trolling that deserves some form of acknowledgement, framed as if getting an apology in early somehow makes things better, NOW that Shadzar has left the thread, and probably the board. The term for Cynthialee's behaviour here is provocation - she literally provoked Shadzar's reaction.

All this has done here has demonstrated the perception of bias on your part, StratosVX. I am not saying whether such bias is conscious or otherwise, and it may be too late to fix what's already happened, but I had to speak out - regardless of how strange my notions may seem at times - simply because this IS the root cause of most of the reasons for these discussions and malcontent these days.

Shadzar just didn't want HQ to be changed from what he thought it was, and was made to feel like a racist because of it. Like I said previously, any critical theory on race would, in the current climate, appear to be pro-White, as society turns to a more pro-BAME structure that seems designed to rectify a past that most of us had no say in, and weren't even born for, and would most likely disagree with today...

I appreciate your honesty as well as how you handled it. I will try to read more from an outside perspective in the future.


Rewards:
Zealot Miniatures: Twisting Catacombs Kickstarter Backer
User avatar
Scribe of Heroes
StratosVX
I hate snakes, Jacques...

Scout
Scout
 
Posts: 1108
Joined: November 6th, 2012, 12:44 am
Location: Utah, USA
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: Hasbro

Postby Davane » July 27th, 2021, 1:41 pm

StratosVX wrote:I appreciate your honesty as well as how you handled it. I will try to read more from an outside perspective in the future.


Thank you, and I appreciate how you have taken my honesty. Few would have accepted it as intended, as you have, StratosVX.

I think it might be for the best to close this thread, and draw a line under things, and hope we can all reflect on any lessons learnt here and move on.
"The HeroQuest World is loosely based on the Warhammer World which is the copyright of Games Workshop and is used by their permission."

HeroQuest Combined English Edition Rule Book (HQ CERB)
User avatar
Davane

Orc Shaman
Orc Shaman
 
Posts: 395
Joined: January 8th, 2020, 8:05 am
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar

Re: Hasbro

Postby Goblin-King » July 27th, 2021, 4:49 pm

This thread made me sad on behalf of the entire HQ community - what an absolutely horrible read from start to end... :cry:
Davane wrote:I think it might be for the best to close this thread, and draw a line under things, and hope we can all reflect on any lessons learnt here and move on.

|_P

I kinda feel like just deleting the thread, since it's just 8 pages of *lemony goodness* flinging... Does this thread bring value to future readers?


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic. Participated in four (4) Miniature Exchanges.Participated in three (3) Miniature Exchanges. Destroyed a Zombie! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
Ye Olde Judge Dredd
Goblin-King
Really looks like David Bowie

Frozen Horror
Frozen Horror
 
Posts: 3545
Images: 85
Joined: September 26th, 2011, 2:54 pm
Location: Sønderholm, Denmark
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group Member Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: Hasbro

Postby StratosVX » July 27th, 2021, 6:03 pm

Not in my opinion.


Rewards:
Zealot Miniatures: Twisting Catacombs Kickstarter Backer
User avatar
Scribe of Heroes
StratosVX
I hate snakes, Jacques...

Scout
Scout
 
Posts: 1108
Joined: November 6th, 2012, 12:44 am
Location: Utah, USA
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: Hasbro

Postby iKarith » July 28th, 2021, 3:05 pm

All right, after the third time that the claim has been made, as if it was a statement of fact, that any time there is some authoritarian shitbags they're "right wing", I'm speaking up. Authoritarianism exists across the "left" and "right" spectrum as people describe it today, only leftists continue to beat the drum that of course anyone who is a "fascist" is automatically right wing because of course THEY can't be cooperating with someone doing evil…

The problem with capitalism is that there are far too few capitalists and far too many serfs who are treated effectively like property. The problem with socialism is that you replace a small group of wealthy, powerful people acting on their own whims with an even smaller group of people who claim to be acting in everyone's best interests (and who invariably all become wealthy and powerful while everyone else gets and stays poor…) The thing that hasn't been tried really is making everyone into a capitalist, a stakeholder if only a small one, and easing regulations to allow the small shops to better compete with the large ones. Direct ownership and cooperatives. Not state ownership, but directly this is partly yours because you bought in.

If any of this was stuff you didn't know … I suggest asking yourself why you didn't know it. Anyone who would tell you what not to read, not to watch, not to pay attention to is trying to control what you think. And I've seen both left and right wing folks tell me not to read/watch/attend to stuff from the other side. My greatest political realization almost 20 years ago now was that the things the Democrats were saying about the Republicans back then was basically true, and what the Republicans said about the Democrats was also basically true. Yet … both were also basically false, because the arguments were full of misrepresentations, straw men, half-truths, and whole lies. It's the nature of politics.

So … fascism is always right-wing?

"Fascism" was literally invented BY A COMMUNIST, Benito Mussolini, who was kicked out of the Communist party not because he was violent, but because he was so enthusiastic about doing extreme violence to "eat the rich" that it was making them look bad. (Anyone who claims that communism is not about violence likely hasn't actually read Marx. And few Marxists realize that among the detractors of Marxism before he died was Marx himself!)

The leftist "hero" AND FABIAN SOCIALIST George Bernard Shaw said, "if you do not produce as much as you consume, or perhaps a little more, then your life is not of much use to us. And it cannot be of much use to you either.[/b]

He also described how Mussolini was not a bad socialist, but rather a good socialist with a bad face. Always scowling, it makes people distrust and fear him. But he's not scowling, see, he's got a happy face…

The leftist hero went one further… He described how the elderly should be able to go to some nice place with music and flowers and then there will be this "humane gas"… Yes, a left-wing socialist came up with the concept of the concentration camp gas chamber before Hitler did.

What Mussolini and Shaw didn't have for what people usually assume to be "fascism" today was any racial note to their respective authoritarianisms. Shaw pushed for government control of industry and property through collectivism. Mussolini pushed for government control of industry and property through regulation. Hitler (concerned about appearing to be part of the bourgeoisie, because that would be unseemly—he wrote that he wanted people to think he was a man of the proletariat!)

But fascism doesn't need that "right-wing" racist component. Not that you have to be right-wing to be a racist. I was raised to believe that if you declare negative attributes about a person automatically because of their skin color or country of origin or ethnic background … that makes you a racist. And yet racism is now not only acceptable to the "left", they demand more of it. The only cure to past racism is the present racism. And the only cure to this racism today will be future racism tomorrow. That's the basis of Critical Race Theory and it's in the first pages of the book everyone pushing that garbage tells you that you've GOT to read. I agree: You've got to read it. I encourage you to actually read it, though and ask yourself: If you swapped "white" and "black" (I'm an albino, you're all shades of brown), would it be racist? Because if it would be, then it's racist!

Franco took the fascism of Mussolini and substituted church for government. That didn't work well either. But since only the right wing supports (Christian) religion, that must have been a right wing fascism as well. And I'd agree that it was, but hardly for that reason.

How about Venezuela? Technically that's not "communism", but it's built around left-wing socialism taken to its logical conclusion. North Korea … I'm not sure if that one counts as communism or not. China calls itself communist, but they have an openly capitalist economy now.

All of this has damned little to do with Hasbro, save for the fact that it's all way more complex than a corporate entity can really get involved with in any sort of nuanced and limited way. You're either all in, all out, or your efforts to moderate will be seen as tokenism or weakness.

I said elsewhere my advice to Hasbro would be to get out of politics and just ignore any effort to drag them into it, be that by the woke crowd or the anti-woke crowd. Because both will effectively try to use the same techniques to force Hasbro to do as they wish the company to do. And Hasbro really should be focusing on making good toys and games, not appeasing at most half the people's politics.

ETA, folks on the left try to claim that any authoritarianism is "right wing", but people on the right do the opposite: After all, if you go investigate the neo-nazi scum on a site like Gab that won't just outright ban them … they sound an awful lot like the average leftist, except that they don't use code language about who they want to see "removed" from the planet. The style is different, not the substance.

Does that mean neo-nazis are leftists? What about antifa, are they rightists? Nope, in both cases. What they are is garbage. That's enough. Anyone who'd just decide to harm, hurt, maim, or even kill someone they don't know because of what they think they know about that "kind of person" is utterly contemptible. I think that's the only quality I need to assign to such people.

If the topic gets back to anywhere near Hasbro and what they're doing … I'll be interested in that. But this place is supposed to be about a game I play to get away from all of the above. Y'know, since both neo-nazis and antifa want me dead. Antifa are a more significant threat being from Portlandia. A dozen of them a few years back decided to chase the blind man down the street and just missed his brainstem with a crowbar. According to the cop who saw the surveillance camera footage, I was literally an inch from being an ex-albino.
<InSpectreRetro> All hail Zargon!!! Morcar only has 1BP.


Rewards:
Slaughtered an Orc! Destroyed a Zombie! Unravelled a Mummy!
User avatar
Web Mage
iKarith

Elven Warrior
Elven Warrior
 
Posts: 623
Joined: February 14th, 2021, 12:42 pm
Location: Portlandia
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group MemberChampion Group Member

Re: Hasbro

Postby cornixt » July 28th, 2021, 4:01 pm

Just let this thread die, we don't need more cod explanations of politics.


Rewards:
Destroyed a Zombie!
User avatar
cornixt

Giant Wolf
Giant Wolf
 
Posts: 765
Joined: November 4th, 2014, 12:56 pm
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Usergroups:
Champion Group Member

PreviousNext

Return to Ye Olde Pub

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests