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Embracing Ambiguity in HQ

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Re: Embracing Ambiguity in HQ

Postby The Admiral » Tuesday November 10th, 2020 10:12am

I suppose people can muse and postulate whatever they want, but ultimately the only official HQ reality is what you can find in official HQ products.

Personally I extend that to the Warhammer world as it is clear to me that is where HQ is set, but that is not actually official.


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Re: Embracing Ambiguity in HQ

Postby Kurgan » Tuesday November 10th, 2020 11:19am

That's fine, but then what does one do when the "official products" contradict? Do we have to wait for them to appoint a "Pablo Hidalgo" style continuity guru to make pronouncements about what is canon?

Hero: But Zargon... that can't happen, because according to X, then Y!
Zargon: Ah, but young fool... that is no longer canon! Now prepare to die... MUHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!

I don't mind the idea of the Warhammer fantasy world being the HQ world. But other than the map and the idea of a "chaos god" (since I like the conversion you guys did of the Japanese game system), I don't feel obligated to really dig into it.

To me "loosely" indicates there is some play with it. So if you want to zero in on some aspect of Warhammer and say "that is in Hero Quest!" that's not for sure. If it appears in Hero Quest, that's a different story. The rest is head-canon, fan fiction and the usual creativity we always had. If the game designers "always intended" something but didn't see fit to tell anyone, how are we supposed to care?

Plus, imagine this... Fimirs are in Hero Quest, because they were in Warhammer. But then they prove "unpopular" in Warhammer and get removed (though last I heard they were back again), but then Hero Quest gets remade without them. So do you get to use Fimirs in Hero Quest or not? According to the set I purchased, they're in there, no matter what anybody says, so I'm using 'em. ;)
But if I do a cracking unboxing of the remake set and there aren't any in there (and there won't be), then if I put them in that set, that's a fan mod. But really, is anyone policing this stuff? No. If I'm going to get thrown out of the official Hasbro Hero Quest 2021 tournament because I keep referring to the abominations by the "wrong name" then so be it... :lol:

I like the idea of expanded Lore, but except as some kind of inspiration when you're writing a new quest, what difference will it make? Will somebody trot out the sticker album during an NA game and say "actually, Morcar, the Wizard gets to use Borin's Armor and the Spirit Blade, as it clearly shows right here..." and the GM responds "actually, my name is Zargon."

I have never read the novels, but what if in one of them it says all Fimirs can turn people to stone? That's a cool idea, and who knows, I could snatch that up and use it in one of my quests. But what if the GM is going to keep it on the table and insist every time that is true, even though its mentioned nowhere in the game's rules? That could get annoying. The GM makes the rules, but I don't see why he (or she) should be bound by material that's not in the game itself.

Classic Hero Quest still exists. So I don't think anyone here is assuming that when the new edition hits shelves, suddenly you won't be allowed to play the old version or the old quest packs, or that you'll have to apply the "new rules" in the 2021 version retroactively when playing Classic. You can do what you want when its your gaming session, of course, but I'm saying for the sake of argument. I don't see that Hasbro (or Gamesworkshop or any of these companies) can reach through time and space and force people to play a certain way.

PS: Last I checked, Chaos Warriors are still in Warhammer and in the remake HQ they're still Dread Warriors. But it all takes place deep in "another dimension" so maybe this is yet another dimension where things are slightly different than the one we were in before?

Edit: It has occurred to me, as someone who has been aware of Warhammer since the 90's (but never played, and now owns a few pieces, mainly by chance but never intends to play it)... that even if you're one of those folks who wants to make Warhammer the "canon" of HeroQuest, I have to ask... which one? Because that franchise began in '83 (before Hero Quest's premiere edition in '89) and continues to be updated and developed to this day. The current year Edition of Warhammer fantasy (to say nothing of Warhammer 40,000) is not the same as the original or the same edition that was current when Hero Quest was released in the various territories. WH is not just one thing, just like HQ it is many things. It spans numerous war games, at least one tabletop dungeon crawler game (Warhammer Quest) and numerous video games. Are you going to try to cram all of that into the same "lore" as this (series of) board games? You're going to somehow keep all of the conflicting lore of HQ straight and all of the conflicting lore of WH straight... but ignore whatever Hasbro finally releases this fall (of which we now have a pretty good idea, except for two "bonus packs" of Quests). Or are you going to make a super, duper, ultimate, above-saiyan, hybrid edition that successfully blends it all together into one neat package? If so, it's still going to be a homebrew, head-canon with presumptions of fanon. Good luck! I choose to just play the game I grew up with, plus a few fun little things we came up with in our gaming group and a few odds and ends from other contemporary editions for flavor... and if the new material in the remake doesn't suck, probably incorporate that too! Each to their own. :2cents:
Last edited by Kurgan on Saturday January 16th, 2021 8:15pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Embracing Ambiguity in HQ

Postby cornixt » Tuesday November 10th, 2020 12:44pm

j_dean80 wrote:I don’t get the repeated phrase I keep seeing of “HeroQuest is D&D Lite”. HeroQuest is not a RPG at all. It is a dungeon crawler. It is a board game with specific rules, turns, actions, dice movement. You give your character a name but it already has set stats. It would be closer to the game Risk, turn by turn fight it out game. You could give your Risk army a name if you’d like.

RPG and "dungeon crawler" aren't mutually exclusive. My first games of D&D were played using miniatures on a map because that is what came in the D&D box. We played it like you would play HQ, just without the roll-to-move. I didn't play theatre-of-the-mind style until college, but even that had specific rules, turns, and actions as soon as combat started.


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Re: Embracing Ambiguity in HQ

Postby wallydubbs » Tuesday November 10th, 2020 1:42pm

Kurgan wrote:That's fine, but then what does one do when the "official products" contradict? Do we have to wait for them to appoint a "Pablo Hidalgo" style continuity guru to make pronouncements about what is canon?

Hero: But Zargon... that can't happen, because according to X, then Y!
Zargon: Ah, but young fool... that is no longer canon! Now prepare to die... MUHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!

I don't mind the idea of the Warhammer fantasy world being the HQ world. But other than the map and the idea of a "chaos god" (since I like the conversion you guys did of the Japanese game system), I don't feel obligated to really dig into it.

To me "loosely" indicates there is some play with it. So if you want to zero in on some aspect of Warhammer and say "that is in Hero Quest!" that's not for sure. If it appears in Hero Quest, that's a different story. The rest is head-canon, fan fiction and the usual creativity we always had. If the game designers "always intended" something but didn't see fit to tell anyone, how are we supposed to care?

Plus, imagine this... Fimirs are in Hero Quest, because they were in Warhammer. But then they prove "unpopular" in Warhammer and get removed (though last I heard they were back again), but then Hero Quest gets remade without them. So do you get to use Fimirs in Hero Quest or not? According to the set I purchased, they're in there, no matter what anybody says, so I'm using 'em. ;)
But if I do a cracking unboxing of the remake set and there aren't any in there (and there won't be), then if I put them in that set, that's a fan mod. But really, is anyone policing this stuff? No. If I'm going to get thrown out of the official Hasbro Hero Quest 2021 tournament because I keep referring to the abominations by the "wrong name" then so be it... :lol:

I like the idea of expanded Lore, but except as some kind of inspiration when you're writing a new quest, what difference will it make? Will somebody trot out the sticker album during an NA game and say "actually, Morcar, the Wizard gets to use Borin's Armor and the Spirit Blade, as it clearly shows right here..." and the GM responds "actually, my name is Zargon."

I have never read the novels, but what if in one of them it says all Fimirs can turn people to stone? That's a cool idea, and who knows, I could snatch that up and use it in one of my quests. But what if the GM is going to keep it on the table and insist every time that is true, even though its mentioned nowhere in the game's rules? That could get annoying. The GM makes the rules, but I don't see why he (or she) should be bound by material that's not in the game itself.

Classic Hero Quest still exists. So I don't think anyone here is assuming that when the new edition hits shelves, suddenly you won't be allowed to play the old version or the old quest packs, or that you'll have to apply the "new rules" in the 2021 version retroactively when playing Classic. You can do what you want when its your gaming session, of course, but I'm saying for the sake of argument. I don't see that Hasbro (or Gamesworkshop or any of these companies) can reach through time and space and force people to play a certain way.

PS: Last I checked, Chaos Warriors are still in Warhammer and in the remake HQ they're still Dread Warriors. But it all takes place deep in "another dimension" so maybe this is yet another dimension where things are slightly different than the one we were in before?


Actually, my intentions is to convert the remake into the original and play it that way. If I'm going to continue to Zargon Orc Bards are forbidden to exist in my Hero Quest universe.

There are areas on the Warhammer map that would probably have to be renamed if we were to configure landmarks from the original Hero Quest. Even though Return of the Witch Lord gave us a map, the setting of that expansion can't even be found on it. I've looked for Kalos and it seems the appropriate thing to do is replace an existing city.
Nor can the entire setting of Frozen Horror be found in the Warhammer map, so we're better off, like you said, loosely basing Hero Quest off of Warhammer, take whatever needs to be taken and replace names that need to be on the map.

I think we just have to look at the remake as part of an alternate dimension the differs slightly from that which we are accustomed to.

As Classic Hero Quest is loosely based off of the Warhammer world, this remake of Hero Quest has to be loosely based off of the original. In this new timeline, serpents never evolutionarily evolved into cyclopean humanoids with tails.
Instead we have fish people looking like Dr. Piranoid from "Street Sharks." And apparently there are orcs that sing and make marry in this universe.

Much like each of us choose to play our game differently from other users, it would be up to Zargon to differentiate these changes between the new and old version of Hero Quest.
If something is in the new version that is not in the original but does not contradict it, we could adopt it onto the old board and vice versa.
Things that are in Warhammer that conflict with Hero Quest will, unfortunately, have to go. Warhammer might be half of the parent company, but it's only that.
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Re: Embracing Ambiguity in HQ

Postby Anderas » Tuesday November 10th, 2020 2:52pm

@Orc Bards

I simulated the base game if you played it with a band of Orcs instead of heroes. Well. You need 20ish of them for each quest. :lol: The best "healing" is summon Orcs by the Shaman.


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Re: Embracing Ambiguity in HQ

Postby Kurgan » Tuesday November 10th, 2020 5:39pm

I still hold out hope for a new quest "The Search for the Orc Pirate King"...

I think there were some custom materials for a boat tile and seaside map tile on the main page. This might be the perfect excuse to use it!

Searfaring tiles

Outdoor Terrain tiles

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Re: Embracing Ambiguity in HQ

Postby Kurgan » Tuesday November 10th, 2020 8:32pm

Doctor Who in the HeroQuest World... ? He will explain why it all works.

I once thought about putting up a giant "world map" of Hero Quest with push pins showing the progress of the new group of Heroes were in their adventures on "Nifon island" while the OG Heroes fought it out at the borders of Olde Bretonnia. I think I decided it was more trouble than it was worth. But others may disagree. Create your dream project!
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Re: Embracing Ambiguity in HQ

Postby The Admiral » Wednesday November 11th, 2020 8:21am

Kurgan wrote:That's fine, but then what does one do when the "official products" contradict? Do we have to wait for them to appoint a "Pablo Hidalgo" style continuity guru to make pronouncements about what is canon?
Fimirs are in Hero Quest, because they were in Warhammer. But then they prove "unpopular" in Warhammer and get removed (though last I heard they were back again), but then Hero Quest gets remade without them. So do you get to use Fimirs in Hero Quest or not? According to the set I purchased, they're in there, no matter what anybody says, so I'm using 'em. ;)
PS: Last I checked, Chaos Warriors are still in Warhammer and in the remake HQ they're still Dread Warriors. But it all takes place deep in "another dimension" so maybe this is yet another dimension where things are slightly different than the one we were in before?


If there is an outright contradiction I would make a common sense ruling. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but there must be some.

Fimirs were in HQ and WH. I never liked their inclusion in the main HQ game as in WH they are quite a niche species. I usually replace them with Orc Champions. I don't know that they ever disappeared from WH. It just didn't do anything with them such as new figures, articles, army lists etc. As they are a secluded race that keep themselves to themselves I was happy with that, but that doesn't mean they never existed. So I see no contradiction there.

Chaos/Dread warriors are the same thing in my opinion, just a different name, and I'm happy with that.


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Re: Embracing Ambiguity in HQ

Postby torilen » Wednesday November 11th, 2020 11:22am

Being in the US, I cannot say what those in the UK have seen and grew up with. I know there is a lot of
material from the Warhammer/Warcraft world that supposedly is involved with the UK version of HQ.
I'm not sure how much of that was meant to enter into the HQ game, really, or if it just leant itself
well for use and they went with it.

Realize this is simply a board game. It is a dungeon crawl board game, for that matter, and as such,
there has to be a little bit of story to go with it. Sure, they could have just said...here's the heroes,
here's the bad guys...he is a set of quests to run through (with no story or real plot included). But
HQ would not have been nearly the success and have the following it has had. Just by the nature
of a fantasy dungeon crawl, it has to have something of a story and plot. Here in the US, they gave
just enough and that was it. That's all that was needed. It was us fans who looked deeper, who
craved more, and who started creating more to go with it. I doubt they really expected anyone
to take it to the level we have. They probably expected that, if players wanted so much more depth
to the game, they would simply seek out D&D or a similar rpg and move on from there.


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Re: Embracing Ambiguity in HQ

Postby whitebeard » Wednesday November 11th, 2020 2:45pm

torilen wrote:Being in the US, I cannot say what those in the UK have seen and grew up with. I know there is a lot of
material from the Warhammer/Warcraft world that supposedly is involved with the UK version of HQ.
I'm not sure how much of that was meant to enter into the HQ game, really, or if it just leant itself
well for use and they went with it.

Realize this is simply a board game. It is a dungeon crawl board game, for that matter, and as such,
there has to be a little bit of story to go with it. Sure, they could have just said...here's the heroes,
here's the bad guys...he is a set of quests to run through (with no story or real plot included). But
HQ would not have been nearly the success and have the following it has had. Just by the nature
of a fantasy dungeon crawl, it has to have something of a story and plot. Here in the US, they gave
just enough and that was it. That's all that was needed. It was us fans who looked deeper, who
craved more, and who started creating more to go with it. I doubt they really expected anyone
to take it to the level we have. They probably expected that, if players wanted so much more depth
to the game, they would simply seek out D&D or a similar rpg and move on from there.


The question in this thread is :
Is it "less is more" or "more is more"?

I'm in the "less is more" camp and the majority of the topics and discussion on this site work for for me.


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