Hasbro

[torilen]

Shadzar - I could care less how you play your games - and believe me, I would never want to play with someone like you.
You come here - stirring up crap, complaing and whining about what a company does with the games they publish,
and then outright admit that you never even played the damn game your whining about??

Seriously, why the hell are you even on this forum? I'm done with you. I will be sure not to acknowledge you in any future
posts, and please do not bother to ever comment on any on mine. I wouldn't want you to think I'm trying to force you into
anything, you know.

(that eye roll can't be big enough)

[Shadzar]

You are clearly illiterate. Your last 2 posts prove, you either can't read, or don't bother to do so.

Strange how you are on a text based forum.

[cynthialee]

I never demanded anything

put words in my mouth

you seem to have an issue with me

back off dude

[Pancho]

HASBRO is a publicly traded company, not a private company. HeroQuest is also a publicly sold and advertised game, and is subject to bait and switch laws. If they try to give people Dungeons & Dragons: The Adventure Begins in a HeroQuest box... there is likely to be a lawsuit.

This forum really needs an ignore feature.

You mean apart from the fact that the UK editions of HQ are plastered with "Developed with Games Workshop," and features notable GW art by GW artists the time, set in a world which was all part of GW's IP (and despite being thrown under a bus for Age of Sigmar, still is)?

Sorry, Shadzar, but GW is (was) an integral part of HQ, and that will always be historical fact. Whether you care about it or not, use the material or not, is up to you. This is a Rule 0 fallacy on your part - you are ignoring the references to GW's Old World in the game and then using this to assert that GW has nothing to do with HQ.

Im not British. I don't care what you or the BBC does over there. Show me anywhere GW lore is mentioned?

https://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/HeroQuest.PDF

It's not, and it won't be. GW is gone now, no part of HASBRO remake which will be using NA rules, new art, new everything it seems except board art, deal with it.

This forum really needs an ignore feature.

You have to chill out man. There are at best two are three SJWs on this entire site, they are a minority here so don’t let them get to you. You don’t need an ignore button for them, instead you could learn how to laugh it. Satire is your friend when you find yourself around these people, for example https://babylonbee.com/news/scientists- ... ll-racist/

And I’m sorry to say it, and I’m certainly not getting in to the details because we have already explained it to death on other recent threads, but Games Workshop is absolutely integral to the development of Heroquest. You are just spectacularly wrong on that.

The two main reasons why New Heroquest will end up being more crappy than it could or should be is i) The Woke, and ii) it’s shorn of all that creative intelligence, wit, world building and lore mastery from late eighties Games Workshop. I find it a bit funny that you are clued up about the former but have a big blind spot for the latter.

[Davane]

Whoa, Shadzar, with all due respect, you should probably try and chill out a bit man.

I'm only talking about the history of HeroQuest, which included GW's involvement. I think that a lot was lost from HQ from removing GW from the mix, and I think that without careful consideration, a significant part of HQ's soul will be lost in NuHQ, if they are going to remake the game with new lore from a modern 21st century outlook. I am wondering exactly how they will handle the GS, KK, and RotWL without clashing with GW's Old World IP. They will probably lampshade it, but GW's Old World is generic enough that there's probably not that much of an issue. I hope Hasbro, like much of the HQ community, will give a nod to the contributions of GW in the history of the game.

Personally, having seen how GW has become, it's probably best that GW isn't involved with the remake, as they'd have thrown that under a bus as they did with the Warhammer World, ironically just before the Warhammer World became one of the most popular video game universes on the planet thanks to Total War: Warhammer. Jervis Johnson has recently retired, and with him goes the last of the golden age of GW games designers from the 80's and 90's. So, we can expect to see much more corporate navel gazing as GW continues to disappear within itself.

All that aside, I'm not telling you how to play your game, Shadzar. You can play it however you like, and I will be interested to hear how you play it. Wokeness in games is abhorrent to me, because I believe in preserving the history of games, and the rich worlds they are set in, and quite often, it seems as if many people just don't understand the games or settings they are meddling with.

As for bigotry, including racial bigotry, I don't tolerate it in real life. In my games, bigotry can make for some interesting roleplaying, and drive some interesting conflicts, but ultimately Rule 1 applies. Most of the time though, my players just want some action, and anything to justify that action and make it fun for them is much more important than any psychosocial political drama they want to bring to the game.

This all reminds me of a question in one of my sociology exams - Does Conservativism conflict with Feminism, and why. The answer is yes, for one simply reason. The current status quo is a patriarchy, and feminism conflicts with the patriarchy and wants to see change. Since conservativism seeks to oppose change, which in this case can be seen to want to preserve patriarchy, this brings them into conflict with Conservativism.

This thing is that of people are truly conservative, then when the current situation changes, so should the behaviours and conflicts with conservatism. Thus, Critical Race Theory SHOULD be just as critical of pro-White behaviour as it is of pro-BAME behaviour. If it isn't, then it's not really conservative, it's pro-White.

Settings and games evolve, I get that. But such evolution should be natural, and should make sense within the context and canon of it's own principles. I mean, I recently read that R. A. Salvatore has said that upcoming Drizzt novels will deal with the Drow's racist past. But, in Faerun, aren't Drow the way they are because the Matriarchs keep a strict authoritarian regime according to the whim's of Lolth, the Spider Queen?

Sometimes, I really don't get the point of wokeness in games, since the time you worry about the colour of a monster's skin is when they are Dragons, and you want to know what elements you need to defeat them!

People really need to stop projecting their own issues into fantasy games, or simply create games and settings of their own. I'm sure a world without evil races in it can be quite interesting, as you'd have to find other reasons for conflict and adventure. But with the lack of intelligence and self-awareness most SJWs have, all they'll end up doing is replacing "othered" Orcs and Drow with another species, and not actually changing a damn thing. Much like Talislanta's claim that there's still no Elves (no, but there are elven-like races)...

[Pancho]

Davane, i think you made two posts now where you seem to be saying that Critical Race Theory is a right wing and or pro-White ideology. It’s no biggie, but I think you might be confused on this?
Critical Race Theory is an ideology promoted by neo-Marxists on the far left, and it is being fought and rejected by the right wing and centrist thinkers. Trump for example banned CRT, but it has been reinstated by Biden. It is widely supported by wokists and BLM types, and often used to teach that white people are inherently privileged, simply from the fact that they were born white.
What did you think it was?

[Davane]

Davane, i think that she two posts now where you seem to be saying that Critical Race Theory is a right wing and or pro-White ideology. I think you might be really confused on this?
Critical Race Theory is an ideology promoted by neo-Marxists on the far left, and it is being fought and rejected by the right wing and centrist thinkers. Trump for example banned CRT, but it has been reinstated by Biden. It is widely supported by wokists and BLM types, and often used to teach that white people are inherently privileged, simply from the fact that they were born white.
What did you think it was?

So, Critical Race Theory isn't actually critical, and is just a pro-BAME ideology that's no better than the pro-White ideology that it claims to fight? Why does that not surprise me...

My apologies, I was talking about racial theory in general, as part of social politics, in a critical manner. That's what I thought was being discussed in the video, and got me somewhat confused.

My point is that there's a balance of power within social politics, and that any critical Race Theory needs to be flexible enough to deal with that. Which means, as we become progressively more inclined to positively discriminate towards the BAME community, any such critical Race Theory would have shifted to appear potentially far right and pro-White.

But it seems that Critical Race Theory has succumbed to the flaws of movements like Feminism, where it uses a fight for equality and against discrimination to actually push a pro-Women agenda. That's not equality, that's misandrism, and is no better than the mysogyny that it claims to oppose.

A big issue is that democracy and liberalism is seen as a centrist policy, when in fact, it should be a left wing policy opposing dictatorship. With phases like neo-Marxists bandied about like we're still fighting the damn Cold War, the left is either abandoning important issues to the centre-right, or busy acting like the far right.

I fight for social justice - but I ain't no SJW. If I see someone discriminating against someone because they are Black, I will challenge it. But I will also challenge if I see someone discriminating against someone because they are White.

The problem is I believe that ALL LIVES MATTER, not just Black Lives, or just White Lives. I am pissed off that the left seems to be busy abandoning ACTUAL equality to the far right.

Maybe it's because I am an old-school socialist, who understands that there's a big disparity between a homeless white man on the street, and Donald Trump. Yes, White people might have privilege from being White, and it's down to a psychological quirk that means that what's considered "normative" for a given culture is rarely seen as an identity at all, and thus goes largely ignored. That's the privilege that White people have for being White, because being White simply means not being BAME in our culture.

It's understandable that, as the balance of power shifts, any critical Race Theory would appear to be pro-White and far Right, when in fact, it's just highlighting the issues with positive discriming for one race being negative discrimination for another.

I don't believe in a colour blind society - I believe in a colourful society where each culture is as uniquely preserved as any other.

I will refer you to my favourite phrase by Nietzche - "Be wary when fighting monsters, lest you become a monster too." That's the problem with many SJWs, they are so busy fighting monsters, they've failed to see how they've become monsters themselves.

Because with all this talk of privilege this, and privilege that, you want to know who is the person with the least power in the UK/US and other similar cultures today? The Heterosexual White Man who ends up homeless on the street. Tell them that they have privilege because they are straight, because they are white, because they are male. In the end, the only privilege comes from being rich, and it's time we stopped thinking anything else...

[Pancho]

Davane, i think that she two posts now where you seem to be saying that Critical Race Theory is a right wing and or pro-White ideology. I think you might be really confused on this?
Critical Race Theory is an ideology promoted by neo-Marxists on the far left, and it is being fought and rejected by the right wing and centrist thinkers. Trump for example banned CRT, but it has been reinstated by Biden. It is widely supported by wokists and BLM types, and often used to teach that white people are inherently privileged, simply from the fact that they were born white.
What did you think it was?

So, Critical Race Theory isn't actually critical, and is just a pro-BAME ideology that's no better than the pro-White ideology that it claims to fight? Why does that not surprise me...

My apologies, I was talking about racial theory in general, as part of social politics, in a critical manner. That's what I thought was being discussed in the video, and got me somewhat confused.

My point is that there's a balance of power within social politics, and that any critical Race Theory needs to be flexible enough to deal with that. Which means, as we become progressively more inclined to positively discriminate towards the BAME community, any such critical Race Theory would have shifted to appear potentially far right and pro-White.

But it seems that Critical Race Theory has succumbed to the flaws of movements like Feminism, where it uses a fight for equality and against discrimination to actually push a pro-Women agenda. That's not equality, that's misandrism, and is no better than the mysogyny that it claims to oppose.

A big issue is that democracy and liberalism is seen as a centrist policy, when in fact, it should be a left wing policy opposing dictatorship. With phases like neo-Marxists bandied about like we're still fighting the damn Cold War, the left is either abandoning important issues to the centre-right, or busy acting like the far right.

I fight for social justice - but I ain't no SJW. If I see someone discriminating against someone because they are Black, I will challenge it. But I will also challenge if I see someone discriminating against someone because they are White.

The problem is I believe that ALL LIVES MATTER, not just Black Lives, or just White Lives. I am pissed off that the left seems to be busy abandoning ACTUAL equality to the far right.

Maybe it's because I am an old-school socialist, who understands that there's a big disparity between a homeless white man on the street, and Donald Trump. Yes, White people might have privilege from being White, and it's down to a psychological quirk that means that what's considered "normative" for a given culture is rarely seen as an identity at all, and thus goes largely ignored. That's the privilege that White people have for being White, because being White simply means not being BAME in our culture.

It's understandable that, as the balance of power shifts, any critical Race Theory would appear to be pro-White and far Right, when in fact, it's just highlighting the issues with positive discriming for one race being negative discrimination for another.

I don't believe in a colour blind society - I believe in a colourful society where each culture is as uniquely preserved as any other.

I will refer you to my favourite phrase by Nietzche - "Be wary when fighting monsters, lest you become a monster too." That's the problem with many SJWs, they are so busy fighting monsters, they've failed to see how they've become monsters themselves.

Because with all this talk of privilege this, and privilege that, you want to know who is the person with the least power in the UK/US and other similar cultures today? The Heterosexual White Man who ends up homeless on the street. Tell them that they have privilege because they are straight, because they are white, because they are male. In the end, the only privilege comes from being rich, and it's time we stopped thinking anything else...

That’s exactly right Davane. The quote by Nietzsche sums up very well what has become of the left wing in current year. They have become the racists and the sexists and the bigots that they think they are fighting. That’s not to say that there isn’t a far right extremist problem as well, of course there is, but that the left wing have at this particular moment surpassed them in terms of the level of threat to classical liberal values and a sane society.

[Daedalus]

Recently the discussion has seen some offensive posts, so let's keep things amicable, please. Thanks to those who have shown restraint.

1. Forum Rules
b. Member Respect
Members should post in a way that is respectful of other members. Flaming, or abusing members in any way will not be tolerated and will lead to a warning.

[iKarith]

I really don't care how anyone else plays HQ or D&D, but if something looks racist or sexist then I'm not going to pretend it doesn't. I'm not going to harass employees of Hasbro and make 5 minute videos consisting of only of two screenshots in silence about it though.

This, but I'm also not going to bend myself into contortions the satisfy the feigned outrage of the Woke Mafia who consistently demand their every contradictory whim be satisfied or "it'd be a shame if someone said you were seen to have discriminated against someone…"