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Best Miniature Sculpt Candidates (hopefully picture heavy)

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Re: Best Miniature Sculpt Candidates (hopefully picture heav

Postby Goblin-King » October 21st, 2013, 8:30 am

There's a huge difference between technical skill and artistic skill.
The best example is from art exhibitions. Some painters paint flowers or stilleben or something like that. And it's painted so realistic you begin to doubt if it's a photo or not.
The quality is very good. But it is interesting? Does it provoke the mind? Is it even art? Well...?
These painters have the technical skill, but not the artistic talent to channel their technique into creative and interesting ideas.
And then we have the exact opposite. Painters who can't paint for ****, but their motives are so good and interesting you don't mind the bad quality. They make it work regardless.

I'm not trying to spur the infamous discussion of "what is art", but I hope you get where I'm going with this :)

Kev and Tom both posses both talents, but Tom's emphasis is on the technical while Kev relies more on his ability to make the characters interesting and charming.
And from here it's all personal taste and opinions...


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Re: Best Miniature Sculpt Candidates (hopefully picture heav

Postby chaoticprime » October 21st, 2013, 9:33 am

Goblin-King wrote:There's a huge difference between technical skill and artistic skill.
The best example is from art exhibitions. Some painters paint flowers or stilleben or something like that. And it's painted so realistic you begin to doubt if it's a photo or not.
The quality is very good. But it is interesting? Does it provoke the mind? Is it even art? Well...?
These painters have the technical skill, but not the artistic talent to channel their technique into creative and interesting ideas.
And then we have the exact opposite. Painters who can't paint for ****, but their motives are so good and interesting you don't mind the bad quality. They make it work regardless.

I'm not trying to spur the infamous discussion of "what is art", but I hope you get where I'm going with this :)

Kev and Tom both posses both talents, but Tom's emphasis is on the technical while Kev relies more on his ability to make the characters interesting and charming.
And from here it's all personal taste and opinions...


Art is anything that exists only to be enjoyed--it has no actual function. For instance, keeping a broken hammer instead of throwing it away after you bought a new one, because it was the first hammer you ever bought.

You're reasoning that there is mutual exclusivity at work between methods, but there is not. Even using the word "technical" is wrong here. Tom's emphasis is not on anything but sculpting to the best of his ability, because he only chooses to work on projects that interest him. Sculptors almost never design their work from scratch--the put other people's ideas into physical form. The only reason that Tom Meier's Thunderbolt Mountain line is so realistically accurate is because it could be.

This goes back to want for simulation and want for abstraction. The abstract method of design, we'll call it baby-doll design, uses abstracted proportions that are enough to convey the idea of what its supposed to be to an applicable audience. Its to give you the idea of something real, while also reminding you that it is a fantasy.

What Tom Meier wants you to see with his TBM line, however, is a tiny army of people. It is not about lending the feeling of supposing that's what its meant to be, because it is an artistic simulation.

The contest at hand is "best miniature sculpt." Tom Meier's TBM stuff is literally just miniature simulations. To even consider other applications, like style or purpose, would be a different test of qualities altogether. It says "best miniature sculpt." That means one thing--the entry that is the best at being miniature.


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Re: Best Miniature Sculpt Candidates (hopefully picture heav

Postby Goblin-King » October 21st, 2013, 11:19 am

Art is anything that exists only to be enjoyed--it has no actual function. For instance, keeping a broken hammer instead of throwing it away after you bought a new one, because it was the first hammer you ever bought.
Strongly disagree with you here. But as I wrote in my previous post... Let's not embark on that discussion. It always gets long and ugly :gargoyle:

You're reasoning that there is mutual exclusivity at work between methods, but there is not.

That's not what I'm saying at all. My examples with the paintings were the absolute extremes. Most artists/creators/sculptors have both technical and creative talent. Sometimes one side is more dominant.
It is however possible to strictly exercise only one skill. A plumber isn't exercising any creativity, he is just fixing your toilet with his technical skills.

Even using the word "technical" is wrong here.

I don't think so. Can you sculpt, paint or build a house? That's technical talent. I can't see how you can argue against that. I can often appreciate the technical qualities in a work I don't necessarily like.
Miniature sculpting isn't any different from any other production.

Tom's emphasis is not on anything but sculpting to the best of his ability, because he only chooses to work on projects that interest him. Sculptors almost never design their work from scratch--the put other people's ideas into physical form. The only reason that Tom Meier's Thunderbolt Mountain line is so realistically accurate is because it could be.

But then his emphasis is exactly on being a technical great sculptor. It's like building a house.The creative force is the architect. But he doesn't actually build the house he designed. For that he need a technically skilled construction crew.

This goes back to want for simulation and want for abstraction. The abstract method of design, we'll call it baby-doll design, uses abstracted proportions that are enough to convey the idea of what its supposed to be to an applicable audience. Its to give you the idea of something real, while also reminding you that it is a fantasy.

What Tom Meier wants you to see with his TBM line, however, is a tiny army of people. It is not about lending the feeling of supposing that's what its meant to be, because it is an artistic simulation.

Not saying the one or other is better. Both are great, it's just different styles. What you prefer is just personal taste.

The contest at hand is "best miniature sculpt." Tom Meier's TBM stuff is literally just miniature simulations. To even consider other applications, like style or purpose, would be a different test of qualities altogether. It says "best miniature sculpt." That means one thing--the entry that is the best at being miniature.

Just talking in general here, not Tom vs Kev ;) -but imagine two sculpts made by equally skilled sculptors. One stands like it's having it's school photo taken, a really boring pose. The other has a dynamic/natural pose. I'd deem the latter the better miniature even if they are both stunningly sculpted. Why isn't it a draw? Because your technique is not enough. Understanding of what makes a great pose, or great armor design, etc. is part of the artistic talent.
If we go back to house building - You may be able to draw anything you see picture perfect - But maybe you couldn't design a decent house if your life depended on it! (Again, it's an extreme example)


(and just to be clear I'm not devaluing Tom's miniatures at all, they are great - I just like to discuss stuff :))


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Re: Best Miniature Sculpt Candidates (hopefully picture heav

Postby chaoticprime » October 21st, 2013, 1:30 pm

You are completely and totally incorrect in everything above. I don't feel like its my duty to fix your logic, but go look up the word "sophomoric" and that should get you started.


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Re: Best Miniature Sculpt Candidates (hopefully picture heav

Postby Goblin-King » October 21st, 2013, 2:21 pm

wow...
Refusing to argue AND insulting. Case closed!

edited:
Image
Last edited by Goblin-King on October 21st, 2013, 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Best Miniature Sculpt Candidates (hopefully picture heav

Postby chaoticprime » October 21st, 2013, 5:17 pm

I was about a page into my reply when I realized that I was retaliating against what was basically my own belligerence. I did not intend to be so dismissive, and regardless of whether or not I could totally smash your arguments into dust, nobody here cares. Sometimes, basically, I'm just mean. But I'm fair. After that time where railed all over Daedalus I still spoke no differently to him on all matters not related to our schism. I don't retaliate to being the subject of a direct insult (unless that involves you accusing me of being a rapist or something). I believe that you all have every right to tell me how you feel about me directly. I hate it when people argue with sophism, however. An argument has requirements, otherwise it something different.

For instance:

"There's a huge difference between technical skill and artistic skill. /This sentence literally means nothing. To even be technical, you have to be skilled. Art is also a skill, in the sense of craft./
The best example is from art exhibitions. Some painters paint flowers or stilleben or something like that. And it's painted so realistic you begin to doubt if it's a photo or not.
The quality is very good. But it is interesting? /Enough that its being exhibited./ Does it provoke the mind? Is it even art? Well...?
These painters have the technical skill, but not the artistic talent to channel their technique into creative and interesting ideas. /How did you come to this conclusion?
And then we have the exact opposite. Painters who can't paint for ****, but their motives are so good and interesting you don't mind the bad quality. They make it work regardless. /How is that the exact opposite? You just said that the actual skill of the artist basically does not matter at all. At the heart of your argument is pure sophism--it relies purely on relative evidence. You even intruded on similar concepts when you described the above art. You describe art that skillfully recreates scenes from reality as incapable of provoking thought in those who view it, also suggesting that it may not actually be art at all. You then suggest a possible meaning that is wholly relative to you, and no one else. Just like how you see art. Reality is the measure for art that imitates it. This is an absolute method of comparison by control. You then approved of art that basically has no measure. Which is, ironically, what led people to first describe some things as being "art." You may as well argue that Kev Adams is better because he saved the life of a magic goose and it endowed him with the ability to have people never get sick of his design aesthetics. He can't be that good, though, because his style spread to everything for awhile, and it was copied by other sculptors. He can't be that good if he's not actually necessary for his craft to work.

I replied the way I did because it was during one of the period moments during one of my days when I am not tweaking on amphetamines or vegetating on cannabis. That's the price for all the cool crap I make--being on drugs basically all the time.

In summary, if Daedalus asked me to help him move, and I were actually close enough to him to be able, I would do so without question. Our disagreement isn't going to move his hypothetical *lemony goodness* around, and I'm pretty sure he's not plain evil, either. I help a lot of people move, but the only time I forced a friend to help me move, was because he owed me for this one night that I had to carry his drunk ass into his apartment and his pants fell down and I accidentally saw his balls.


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Re: Best Miniature Sculpt Candidates (hopefully picture heav

Postby mako-heart » October 21st, 2013, 6:29 pm

Image succubus very detailed you gotta love hot demons right! Just thought I would put in my :2cents: ! keep posting, some great stuff so far ! :oImage can't tell if the food is painted the bay leaves look fake
Last edited by mako-heart on October 21st, 2013, 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best Miniature Sculpt Candidates (hopefully picture heav

Postby chaoticprime » October 21st, 2013, 6:36 pm

mako-heart wrote:Image succubus very detailed you gotta love hot demons right! Just thought I would put in my :2cents: ! keep posting, some great stuff so far ! :o


I have two of these, one painted and one not. Mine are also sans-brassiere.
Image


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Re: Best Miniature Sculpt Candidates (hopefully picture heav

Postby IvenBach » October 21st, 2013, 6:41 pm

It's a giant penny... That's my incorrect opinion and I'm sticking to it.


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Re: Best Miniature Sculpt Candidates (hopefully picture heav

Postby mako-heart » October 21st, 2013, 6:44 pm

I checked yours out on photobucket that is so Bad ass!! I just love succubus art and mini's I'm thinking even of a succubus HQ anti-hero party! you have great taste ;) love what you did with the glare on the sword. Great Sculpt in my mind not to realistic not to far fetched just right ....
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