Cael Darkhollow wrote:Fullork345 wrote: Has anyone used the expansions together? I'm wondering if its semi balanced with both.
I own both expansions, the UK version of the main game and quite a few copies of the US version of the main game which is different, so most often I use it all at once (one of each different box at once. Makes it easy to put everything back in the original boxes without a fuss.) I prefer to play with three mats long (Ye olde grand charge head on style battle with river running parallel) or two mats wide (river crossing defense) and two base armies (one each) and one reinforcement each.
With reinforcements it can get crowded on a single game mat and initial placement and movement strategies become decisive. I would avoid using the terrain tiles or hedges that restrict movement with just one game mat.
As the UK base game and expansion versions have green trays and different names on the stickers and the US has brown and tan unit trays, I can have a lot of units on the field and very few duplicate named troops or flags. Perfect. I can field as many as seven towers if I wish. I have also played as four generals each with their own army two Chaos and two Empire working with their partners but with TWO different draw decks both drawn each turn but only used for one partner each for a totally unique experience that eliminates the chances that a deck was poorly shuffled heavily favoring one army.
There are TWO ogres in the Chaos Warband expansion, combined with one from the base game (and one more from my US version) which gives three or four Ogres moving at once when an ogre card is drawn, a devastating effect for sure that can completely clean up the enemy army HOWEVER, Ogre cards don't come up regularly but rather sporadic so it can be really frustrating to watch them die and not fight back sometimes. The five beastmen units (X20) in the reinforcement box barely move as beastmen cards are not very common except in total army moves so it makes them practically worthless; while the knights (x3), men at arms (x5), crossbowmen (x5), and archers (x10) included in the Imperial Lords expansion regularly get cards so they march, fight and loose arrows all over the battlefield while their supposedly 'balanced' enemies in the Chaos reinforcement stand there looking stupid. (I guess that might be in-character realism for the monster types.) They certainly SHOULD have had greenskins in the reinforcements as Chaos armies are totally dependent on orcs and goblins for a win.
You get one cannon in the Imperial Lords reinforcement box giving you two with the base game (or three when I use all of my different sets together) which is fairly balanced with the extra ogres as a cannon card draw can be devastating and can turn the tide in a single round of combat or they just stand around waiting to die for lack of cards drawn.
Where both reinforcement boxes get weird is they give you a single Imperial lord knight but two chaos lords which is an obvious imbalance, furthermore because they are based alone with one model instead of three on the unit tray they effectively have one hit point but still fight just as hard hitting as three lords from the base game until they die making them powerful but very short-lived.
I think the imbalance lies with the whole Battle Masters game not just the expansion boxes, the Empire nearly always wins based on the card frequency of a single deck and combat abilities of the units with any reasonable general at the helm with normal luck, whilst the Chaos army is a challenge to win with without a serious luck streak or an experienced skilled general to play them. I nearly always play Chaos giving whichever relatively new player a good chance for a win the Empire, even my young nephews, while I end up cursing my luck most games I do dramatically defeat them due to good cards the next game. If I play Empire they stand no chance even if multiple cannons blow themselves up, the knights and archers are just too effective.
both expansions "rules" pamphlets give detailed instructions (well a womping two pages, a folded paper) for adding reinforcements and points values for each type, which seems fair until you look at the cards for each unit. Beastmen at 4 points are NOT equal to goblins or men at arms also at 4 points which get far more cards and thus move and fight far more often. You could easily add or subtract units or customize according to the rules given based on the point values.
A clever general can block up river fords or pathways through hedges and spiked ditches with units that just sit there, stopping charges and providing for flank attacks, while a clumsy general can see their best units bogged down behind units that seldom move.
Chaos Warband 48 points
Imperial Lords 47 points
Chaos Army (Base Game) 71 points
Imperial Army (Base Game) 72 points
Chaos army + reinforcements = 119 points
Imperial Army + reinforcements = 119 points
My grand battles are at Chaos = 190 points Empire = 191 points.
