HQ25 Treasure Cards

[Maurice76]

The text on the Dazzling Gem seems a bit ... awkward. "... if both dice are doubles ..." is a weird way of saying that both dice are equal. Furthermore, what is the way to go about it, if you roll a number of movement die/dice other than 2?

[Anderas]

New preview with some corrections.
I call this the "Mobile phone format" because in widescreen you can perfectly zoom to 3 playcards and in portrait view you can perfectly zoom to one playcard.

What do we do about the snake pit? Do we replace it with a "Poison", in order to have the unknown potion more interesting also for NA players? Maybe then we add also one good card on top, to be nice enough?

[Daedalus]

Deadalus's version of the Dazzling Gemstone affects the average movement roll of a Hero as follows:

• 6+ Mind Points (Wizard): 7.0
• 5 Mind Points (Alchemist): 5.0 (3% to skip turn)
• 4 Mind Points (Elf): 3.3 (11% to skip turn)
• 3 Mind Points (Dwarf): 2.0 (25% to skip turn)
• 2 Mind Points (Barbarian): 1.0 (44% to skip turn)
• 1 Mind Point (Goblin): 0.3 (69% to skip turn)

Suffice to say, holding this gem is more debilitating than you might think! I think the Barbarian would have to throw away even Deadalus's 'softer' version, and the Dwarf would be reduced to comically slow levels if he tried to keep it.

The thing that I don't like about this version is that it shreds off the Heroes' best movement rolls; I'd just as soon use a variation that had roughly equivalent chances to waste time but still afforded the possibility of rolling a 12 to escape the dungeon or catch up with the other Heroes on occasion. I'd probably say something like "Roll an additional 'normal' die during each of your movement phases; you skip that move if the extra die rolls higher than your Mind Points.", although I don't know how to word it in 'normal' Hero Quest-speak.

GimmeYerGold's original card is very tough on the Barbarian and Dwarf by design. He was looking to compensate for what he perceived as the Wizard's weaker treasure-finding ability.

The Barbarian and Dwarf can still escape the dungeon or catch up with good rolls using text from my alternative, they just have to discard the treasure first. The Wizard is favored by not needing to sacrifice the card. The Elf is normally the only Hero with a meaningful choice who needs to decide between a move penalty equivalent to plate mail or forgoing the reward.

You've got a point about slowing movement, however. If just one red die were lost, every Hero (except a Wizard at full Mind Points) would bump up almost to the next Hero's average movement, right? That would make the card a bit more inclusive and less of a drag.

Keep in mind that losing both movement dice doesn't mean that the Hero's turn is lost with my text revision. It is still possible to search, cast a spell, or attack with a ranged weapon. It is even possible to continue attacking an adjacent monster.

What about a version that lets you lose your movement if you roll a double that's higher than your mind points.
That way you lose a maximum of 17% of your movements, and all the heroes are still affected, even the Wizard.

Yeah, that works cleanly, though it is milder. The problem is it won't work with plate mail unless an extra die is rolled (not added to movement.) Here are our choices so far:

1. GimmeYerGold's original card in this topic.
2. My first card in this topic
3. My revised card in this topic
4. My revised card with Count Mohawk's revision: ". . . You are lost in its splendor. Roll a special red die when you move. Don't move this turn if the extra die exceeds your Mind Points. . . ."
5. My revised card with Andreas' (with Maurice and I) revision: ". . . You are lost in its splendor. Lose your movement if you roll an identical number on two dice that is higher than your Mind Points (roll an extra die if wearing plate mail.)
6. My revised card with this new buff: ". . . Lost in its splendor, you must forfeit one of your red dice rolled to move if it exceeds your Mind Point total. . . ."
7. Drop the card, possibly replacing it with a different one altogether

[Maurice76]

How about a much more simpler form? "Discard any movement die rolled higher than the Hero's current Mind Points". That automatically takes care of any and all modifiers that added or removed movement dice from the Hero, be it temporary or permanent.

[Daedalus]

Yeah, I proposed that in my revised card (choice 3) in this post. In the following post, Count Mohawk explained how he felt it was too restrictive. I agree with your point about simplicity, but I also agree reducing moment can hurt gameplay. Look how few Heroes want to deal with plate mail for long.

Since we are currently light on fully "good" cards, I'd tend to favor softening the penalty further for a better overall balance. If we instead substituted in another "good" card or two for a like number of good/bad cards, then I would agree to keep Dazzling Gemstone simple as you suggest.

[Maurice76]

Yeah, I proposed that in my revised card (choice 3) in this post. In the following post, Count Mohawk explained how he felt it was too restrictive. I agree with your point about simplicity, but I also agree reducing moment can hurt gameplay. Look how few Heroes want to deal with plate mail for long.

Serves me right, for just skimming the topic . However, the point stands that the card has a penalty attached to it and in whatever suggested form, it hampers movement in one way or another. If you don't want to do that (due to players not liking that), you would need to find another penalty instead - if you want to have a downside attached to the card anyway.

[Anderas]

Yeah, I proposed that in my revised card (choice 3) in this post. In the following post, Count Mohawk explained how he felt it was too restrictive. I agree with your point about simplicity, but I also agree reducing moment can hurt gameplay. Look how few Heroes want to deal with plate mail for long.

Serves me right, for just skimming the topic . However, the point stands that the card has a penalty attached to it and in whatever suggested form, it hampers movement in one way or another. If you don't want to do that (due to players not liking that), you would need to find another penalty instead - if you want to have a downside attached to the card anyway.

Ah yes of course. That's the special this card has. It is a treasure AND a hazard.
It just needs to be treasury enough so that the heroes don't want to let it go, and hazard enough so that they want. And it should employ the mind points somehow.

[lestodante]

For the misterious potion: It would be nice if the players can have some references about smells or colors of the potions in the game, so to be more realistic when you find an unknown potion, they may look at its color and the master will roll 1 or 2 dice to restrict the range of possibilities (each number correspond to a kind of potion) and after checking an apposite reference-table he will describe the liquid aspect and color: "it is a red liquid and it smells like a death rat..." so the player can remember other similar potion tried before and can decide to drink it or not
This is just a way to reward players with more experience (and more focused about details).

potion-hedrankit.jpg

[Daedalus]

New preview with some corrections.
I call this the "Mobile phone format" because in widescreen you can perfectly zoom to 3 playcards and in portrait view you can perfectly zoom to one playcard.

Nice and easy!

What do we do about the snake pit? Do we replace it with a "Poison", in order to have the unknown potion more interesting also for NA players? Maybe then we add also one good card on top, to be nice enough?

How about separate versions of this card for NA and EU folders? The NA version would omit the poison text, but the EU version would keep it in.

If we kept in all other good/bad cards, then yes, I'd say add in another "good" card if a Poison! (Mind Points) replaces Snake Pit! I feel the current 1 good, 4 good/bad, 3 bad is too risky anyways.

I'd be in favor of replacing a bad card with a fully good card for a 2 good/4 good-bad/2 bad ratio. Animated Corpse is so cool it should stay. Though I like what you've done with Hazard!, it along with Snake Pit could be replaced with a single Poison! card that reduces Mind Points by 1. That would work with your current Unknown Potion. If separate NA/EU folders are set up to handle Unknown Potion (and other discrepancies), then I'd keep Hazard! and just replace Snake Pit with a fully good card.

. . . For the smoke hazard, the point is not so much about stealing turns (even if I do); it is more about having one more Mind Point Check. . . .

A Treasure Card with a Mind Point check is a great idea. How about this?

Hidden Gems! . Rubble is strewn all about this room. Roll a number of Red Dice equal to your Mind Points. For each die that you roll below your Mind Points, you discover that many semiprecious gems. Each stone is worth 5 gold coins. Total the money and record it on your sheet. Do not return this card to the deck.

Like Dazzling Gemstone!, this card favors the Wizard most but doesn't penalize other Heroes other than reducing their treasure from this card. I think GimmeYerGold's point makes sense about benefiting the Wizard who can less afford to search for treasure.

[Anderas]

If separate NA/EU folders are set up

I am against transatlantic separation. Let's have one YOIHQ25, if possible.

so the changes would be - replace hazard with poison and then add some nicety.
I like your mind point treasure, by the way!